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Implications of the Garden

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Johann!@#

Johann!@#

Member
KenH said:
and there he put the man whom he had formed; not as soon as he had planted the garden, but as soon as he had made man; and from hence it is generally concluded, that man was made without the garden, and brought from the place where he was formed, and put into it...it is most probable that it was not far from the garden...for the putting him into it may signify the appointing and ordering him to be there, and fixing and settling him in it, for the ends and uses mentioned, see Genesis 2:15.

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on Genesis 2:8.
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An excellent commentary-might I add.
He is very familiar with Jewish customs and manners-and the Targums.
J.
 
Johann!@#

Johann!@#

Member
kyredneck said:
...agree, love Gill, he was a gentle old soul, but he's just like a lot of writers from his era, wordy, takes 10,000 words to say what could be done in 10.
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Lol! Try Jonathan Edwards or Owen-longwinded.
I much prefer ancient rabbinical writings.
Shalom to you and precious family brother.
Johann.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
RighteousnessTemperance& said:
In summary, my post says scripture does not say where the man was prior to that statement. It only says he was made, and generally from what, but not where. The where is doctrinally irrelevant to the passage.

We might also speculate on there being a journey to the Garden. If there was one, what did it entail? Just how did the man get there. What does scripture mean by saying, "the Lord God took the man"? The passage does not address this. If it were doctrinally important, then the text would have specified.
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I agree with your logic here. God included what is important. In fact, all that f Scripture is important. I am not speculating (not looking for a specific dot on a map).

I agree that exactly where Adam was created is not important or Scripture would have given a location.

And, of course, by your reasoning that this location was outside of the Garden must be important because Scripture tells us this three times.

So what importance to you think is found in Scripture telling us that Adam was created outside of the Garden?

How does this correspond with God sending him from the Garden to the ground from which he was created?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
One important theological point is that Adam was returned to the state, in relation to God's fellowship in the Garden, that he originally experienced.

Adam was created, put in the Garden, and cast from the Garden back to tend the soil from which he was created.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
kyredneck said:
...agree, love Gill, he was a gentle old soul, but he's just like a lot of writers from his era, wordy, takes 10,000 words to say what could be done in 10.
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Yes I love the way Gill explains it... I know growing up Dad had his Bible Exposition in hardback with his Doctrine Of Divinity... Not only heavy reading, heavy books!:eek:... Aren't you glad their both online!... Now if you want to get all wordy and flowery about it... There's always Spurgeon... Brother Glen:)
 
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KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
...agree, love Gill, he was a gentle old soul, but he's just like a lot of writers from his era, wordy, takes 10,000 words to say what could be done in 10.
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Yeah,,my pastor said the same thing recently about Gill, even though he likes him. He also likes Robert Hawker's commentary, which is much less wordy.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Site Supporter
Johann!@# said:
Lol! Try Jonathan Edwards or Owen-longwinded.
I much prefer ancient rabbinical writings.
Shalom to you and precious family brother.
Johann.
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tyndale1946 said:
Yes I love the way Gill explains it... I know growing up Dad had his Bible Exposition in hardback with his Doctrine Of Divinity:eek: Aren't you glad their both online... Now if you want to get all wordy and flowery about it... There's always Spurgeon... Brother Glen:)
Click to expand...

KenH said:
Yeah,,my pastor said the same thing recently about Gill, even though he likes him. He also likes Robert Hawker's commentary, which is much less wordy.
Click to expand...

They never had the distractions we have now, deep thoughts they had, imagine all that writing and research by oil or candle light, the devotion, commitment, Edersheim isolated himself for seven years to write 'The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah'.
 
Johann!@#

Johann!@#

Member
kyredneck said:
They never had the distractions we have now, deep thoughts they had, imagine all that writing and research by oil or candle light, the devotion, commitment, Edersheim isolated himself for seven years to write 'The Life And Times Of Jesus The Messiah'.
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Can you imagine brother? And the persecutions they suffered?
Bunyan was jailed and we have Pilgrims Progress, a classic.
So many others.
We are to redeem the precious, little time we have and work with the talents God has given us.
We are to DENY self-pick up our cross and keep on following our Master.
Johann.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Johann!@# said:
Can you imagine brother? And the persecutions they suffered?
Bunyan was jailed and we have Pilgrims Progress, a classic.
So many others.
We are to redeem the precious, little time we have and work with the talents God has given us.
We are to DENY self-pick up our cross and keep on following our Master.
Johann.
Click to expand...

This brother just brought to mind a song I led many times in church, sorry to derail the thread but it seems to fit here... From Isaac Watts... Brother Glen:)

  1. Am I a soldier of the cross,
    A follow’r of the Lamb?
    And shall I fear to own His cause,
    Or blush to speak His name?
  2. Must I be carried to the skies
    On flow’ry beds of ease,
    While others fought to win the prize,
    And sailed through bloody seas?
  3. Are there no foes for me to face?
    Must I not stem the flood?
    Is this vile world a friend to grace,
    To help me on to God?
  4. Sure I must fight if I would reign;
    Increase my courage, Lord;
    I’ll bear the toil, endure the pain,
    Supported by Thy Word.
  5. Thy saints in all this glorious war
    Shall conquer, though they die;
    They see the triumph from afar,
    By faith’s discerning eye.
  6. When that illustrious day shall rise,
    And all Thy armies shine
    In robes of vict’ry through the skies,
    The glory shall be Thine.
 
Johann!@#

Johann!@#

Member
tyndale1946 said:
This brother just brought to mind a song I led many times in church, sorry to derail the thread but it seems to fit here... From Isaac Watts... Brother Glen:)

  1. Am I a soldier of the cross,
    A follow’r of the Lamb?
    And shall I fear to own His cause,
    Or blush to speak His name?
  2. Must I be carried to the skies
    On flow’ry beds of ease,
    While others fought to win the prize,
    And sailed through bloody seas?
  3. Are there no foes for me to face?
    Must I not stem the flood?
    Is this vile world a friend to grace,
    To help me on to God?
  4. Sure I must fight if I would reign;
    Increase my courage, Lord;
    I’ll bear the toil, endure the pain,
    Supported by Thy Word.
  5. Thy saints in all this glorious war
    Shall conquer, though they die;
    They see the triumph from afar,
    By faith’s discerning eye.
  6. When that illustrious day shall rise,
    And all Thy armies shine
    In robes of vict’ry through the skies,
    The glory shall be Thine.
Click to expand...
May we all say together with our brother-

2Ti_4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith:

Shalom
J.
 
R

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I agree with your logic here. God included what is important. In fact, all that f Scripture is important. I am not speculating (not looking for a specific dot on a map).

I agree that exactly where Adam was created is not important or Scripture would have given a location.

And, of course, by your reasoning that this location was outside of the Garden must be important because Scripture tells us this three times.

So what importance to you think is found in Scripture telling us that Adam was created outside of the Garden?

How does this correspond with God sending him from the Garden to the ground from which he was created?
Click to expand...
That really does not address my posts as written; in fact, it has the appearance of attempting to ignore most of what I've posted.

The specifics of the mystery of how life was introduced are too great to fathom, especially when it comes to the complexities of mankind. It doesn't look like anyone will ever know how God did it this side of heaven.

The man was taken and made from the ground (unspecified) by the “hand” of God in God's image, then placed in the Garden. It makes more sense to say that the man was in God’s hand when taken from the ground and made.

Doctrinally, that is all that should be made of this particular aspect of the scripture narrative. Scripture is not concerned with geographical location regarding the creation of man.
 
R

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
John 21:22-23 gives us a glimpse into how believers can easily go from what God says to adding something that also seems true but is actually an invalid addition. Jesus saying it three times wouldn't change the fact that the addition was invalid.

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”​
 
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