Impossible to fool The Elect

[HankD]

Salvation is by God's regenerating work in His elect. I was "fooled" by religion (remember I was Jewish, then Catholic THEN born again!) but ULTIMATELY because I was elect, God's Spirit worked on me and changed this heart of stone into a living heart.

Jesus called this work of the Spirit "born again" to Nick at Night. If a person is one of God's elect (specially loved from before the world was created) they will be regenerated. They might be "fooled" for a while, but ultimately God's Spirit wins and our nature changed.

God ALWAYS wins. Deck is stacked in His favor. Not ONE of us elect can be lost.

Out where we live we'd add "Yippee ki yi yay". Y'all can add "Amen" :thumbs:

AMEN!

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:​

HankD (Former Catholic, then former atheist, now born again).

 

[Yeshua1]

Simple....they were lost. Where dose it say if you "we're" a Baptist you were born again? They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19

Do though know folks who are really saved, at least far as I can know that, who have fallen for some pretty bad Word of faith/prosperity teachings!

So even real Christians can be duped and fall for bad theology if they don't know the bible, and are not walking close with the Lord!

 

[Jedi Knight]

So even real Christians can be duped and fall for bad theology

Bad Theology... Yes. Damnable Heresies like Mormons or JW's.....No!

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If the deception came at a point in a believer's life where he had drifted from the Truth, yes, I can see him being deceived.

But God's word, in the original Greek, says ei dunatos, which, though often translated as it is here, "if possible," literally means "impossible" in such a context, which is known in both English and Greek studies as a "negative adjective." The elect cannot be deceived. Period. A believer cannot "drift from the truth." He/she may drift from the path, but not the truth. John summarizes the impossibility of "losing one's salvation" perfectly in his first epistle, though most fail to recognize it as such.

1 John 1,NASB
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. [Emphasis added]​

The breakdown:
v. 5 -- God is light and no one lives in darkness who is in Him.
v. 6 -- Claiming fellowship with Him when we walk in darkness means we are not actually in Him, and never were.
v. 7 -- Walking in light -- doing good works, trusting in Him to lead and guide us, being transparent and intentional in our faith -- is the proof of His cleansing of our soul.
v. 8 -- Saying we have no sin is a denial of Christ and our need for His sacrifice, meaning we were never His.
v. 9 -- Confessing our sins daily keeps us in tune to His leading. We are already forgiven, so confession is for us -- keeping us focused -- not for Him, who died for all our sins, not just the ones we were bearing at the time of our salvation, but even those we had not yet committed.
v. 10 -- Thinking we do not sin once we do have faith breaks fellowship with Him and indicates we have not been open to His teaching, which states all have sinned -- including those who believe Him for Who He is and what He has done for us.

 

[Rippon]

But God's word, in the original Greek, says ei dunatos, which literally means "impossible." The elect cannot be deceived. Period.

I certainly agree with you tnd. (Couldn't you think of an easier handle?)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

I certainly agree with you tnd. (Couldn't you think of an easier handle?)

Unique, that's me. (Ever see anyone else with this name?) :smilewinkgrin:

Actually, it's a "tag line" I give my clients. When we discover faulty reasoning ("She made me mad' -- no, you chose to be mad about whatever she did; "I have to use to mellow me out" -- no, you choose to use because it's easier than honestly and directly dealing with reality; "I can quit any time" -- then quit!) I sometimes follow up the "revelation" by saying, "Hello! Do you see how this number is disconnected?"

Oh, well. Anything I can do to get them to remember what Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (a biblical perspective of change developed by psychiatrist Dr. Aaron Beck, who was a Christian) can do if they will actually engage in using it to change. TND words just fine, by the way. :thumbsup:

 

[DrJamesAch]

Salvation is by God's regenerating work in His elect. I was "fooled" by religion (remember I was Jewish, then Catholic THEN born again!) but ULTIMATELY because I was elect, God's Spirit worked on me and changed this heart of stone into a living heart.

Jesus called this work of the Spirit "born again" to Nick at Night. If a person is one of God's elect (specially loved from before the world was created) they will be regenerated. They might be "fooled" for a while, but ultimately God's Spirit wins and our nature changed.

God ALWAYS wins. Deck is stacked in His favor. Not ONE of us elect can be lost.

Out where we live we'd add "Yippee ki yi yay". Y'all can add "Amen" :thumbs:

[We are working on NOT bringing your continual yammer of Calvinism and deal with one small part of doctrinal truth. Your comments are off topic - if you want to drag your hobby horse, go to the Calvinist debate forum]

Now my comment was snipped because it was said to be directed at Calvinism. So are you saying that the highlighted portion of your own comment is unique and similar to all denominations on the view of election? Would an Arminian agree with the statement that "BECAUSE I was elect"?

I would say that that comment is from a distinctly Calvinist point of view about election. The statement that I made has been one that has plagued many about the issue of evangelism. What I stated was a logical and reasonable implication and a normal objection to Calvinism that would be asked of ANY Calvinist called upon to defend their beliefs. If people can't answer that question on a forum, than how can they answer it when an unsaved person asks you the same thing out "in the streets"?

I don't see how on a forum that has a distinctly Calvinist lean, that you could have a thread about THE ELECT, and NOT predict with reasonably certainty that the theme would not be Calvinistic. Your OWN STATEMENT reflects that fact.

The statement I made was QUITE relevant because the elect in Matthew are not CHURCH SAINTS. They are REMNANT JEWS during the tribulation. No "elect" in the CHURCH would be told to hope that their flight was not on the SABBATH, and not saint of the CHURCH would be told to observe what the man of sin does in the TEMPLE. The "gospel of the KINGDOM" that is preached in Matthew 24 is preached by 144,000 Jews (elect Rom 9:27) 2 witnesses and AN ANGEL FROM HEAVEN (Rev 14:6-JOHN! Rev 10:11) not the church. The days are shortened FOR THE ELECT but not the WORLD in Matthew 24:22 because the elect during the tribulation are miraculously protected by God after the first 3 1/2 years (Rev 12:6,14). The 2 witnesses are killed (Rev 11:7), then the third woe of Rev 8:13 is unleashed in Rev 12:12, and after the dragon attempts to kill the remnant and fails, he chases the rest of her SEED. (Rev 12:13-17). The dragon then gives power to the beast who reigns for 3 1/2 more years (Rev 13:5).

The reason that being deceived is more likely in this time period (the tribulation) is because GOD SENDS STRONG DELUSION THAT THOSE WHO REJECT CHRIST AND TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST SHALL BELIEVE A LIE (2 Thess 2:11. Rev 13:8.

Thus Matthew 24 is not referring to any "elect" in the church, but to the remnant of Israel during the tribulation. (And certainly NOT about Titus sacking Jerusalem in AD 70 after Matthew 24:2).

 

[saturneptune]

But God's word, in the original Greek, says ei dunatos, which, though often translated as it is here, "if possible," literally means "impossible" in such a context, which is known in both English and Greek studies as a "negative adjective." The elect cannot be deceived. Period. A believer cannot "drift from the truth." He/she may drift from the path, but not the truth. John summarizes the impossibility of "losing one's salvation" perfectly in his first epistle, though most fail to recognize it as such.

1 John 1,NASB
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. [Emphasis added]​

The breakdown:
v. 5 -- God is light and no one lives in darkness who is in Him.
v. 6 -- Claiming fellowship with Him when we walk in darkness means we are not actually in Him, and never were.
v. 7 -- Walking in light -- doing good works, trusting in Him to lead and guide us, being transparent and intentional in our faith -- is the proof of His cleansing of our soul.
v. 8 -- Saying we have no sin is a denial of Christ and our need for His sacrifice, meaning we were never His.
v. 9 -- Confessing our sins daily keeps us in tune to His leading. We are already forgiven, so confession is for us -- keeping us focused -- not for Him, who died for all our sins, not just the ones we were bearing at the time of our salvation, but even those we had not yet committed.
v. 10 -- Thinking we do not sin once we do have faith breaks fellowship with Him and indicates we have not been open to His teaching, which states all have sinned -- including those who believe Him for Who He is and what He has done for us.

A very well thought out post. I am at a disadvantage, as I know nothing of Greek except for the conversation I learned while living there for a year. I will just pose one point. You list many things a Christian ought to be doing to become more like Christ each day. I stated in my post that if a Christian is in the Word, and he has a close walk with the Lord, he can spot false teachers a mile away. My point is, how many born again Christians do that every day. All I am saying is that it is possible to be deceived if out of fellowship (not salvation) with the Lord. By the way, welcome to BB.

One final question, do you think the person in Romans 6-8 is saved or lost?