Impossible to Keep

[DHK]

Your verses are meaningless. They don't show HOW you keep the Sabbath Day. You fail to answer the OP.
Tell me:
1. Do you, on the Sabbath travel a greater distance than "a Sabbath Day's Journey"?
2. Do you wear clothing that is "divers?" or is it all of one kind?
3. Do you cause anyone else to work on the Sabbath? (by using their fuel, etc.)?

Have you completely prepared everything you need before the Sabbath begins--and I mean everything?
Then, what do you do on the Sabbath that you keep it?
Don't quote meaningless Scripture to me.
Tell me the answers to the above questions. Your scripture doesn't answer what YOU do.

I'll say it again. Your verses are meaningless in answering these questions which you fail to avoid.
If I ask you "How do celebrate Thanksgiving?" will you simply dodge that question also by quoting a bunch of verses on the importance of giving thanks, or will you tell me whether you spend it at the local mission with those have nothing or with your family; eating turkey or eating ham (lol)?
I don't need you meaningless Bible verses for you to tell me how you celebrate a festival: Christmas, Thanksgiving, or the Sabbath.

But you won't do it; because you can't.

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
One of the things most notable about the Messianic Jewish congregations I have visited during their Saturday morning Sabbath services - is that they all claim to have a lot of interest among former Seventh-day Adventists who go there because the Messianic groups have the same acceptance of the 4th commandment - Seventh day Sabbath as applicable to all mankind under the New Covenant.

As Seaver has already pointed out, this is utterly false. Yes, there are Messianic Jews who do "keep the Sabbath" but the command to "keep the Sabbath"

As I said -- "One of the things most notable about the Messianic Jewish congregations I have visited during their Saturday morning Sabbath services - is that they all claim to have a lot of interest among former Seventh-day Adventists who go there because the Messianic groups have the same acceptance of the 4th commandment"

This is not only what I observed - it is was they took hours to explain to me.

As
the command to "keep the Sabbath"
was for the Jewish people, not for the church.

Not according to the OT "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23.

Not according to the NT - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.

Not according to Confessions of Sunday keeping groups like the Baptist Confession of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith

Not according to Sunday keeping sources like R.C. Sproul, C.H. Spurgeon, D.L. Moody.

And not according to the Messianic Jewish Congregations I have visited.

inconvenient details - but all true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The "objective unbiased" reader will "notice" that things we are supposed to "do" to honor the 4th commandment. "HOW to KEEP" the Sabbath Holy.

1. Rest - no daily business/work
2. Gather for worship.

It does not get any easier than this to "see" it.

[FONT=&quot]10 Commandments are[/FONT][FONT=&quot] –[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Law of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Word of God” Mark 7:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Scripture” James 2:8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT “Law” – James 2:9-11[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NT Commandments[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Matt 5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

---------------------

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]According to 'the Bible" here is how the Sabbath is kept. (Since so many here have asked that I read this to them - and I am very happy to do so.)

Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.



Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—


Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.


[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

======================

That last comment is significant - don't miss it. I could have posted the exact same list of texts - as a Sunday Keeping Baptist who claimed all the same things about how to keep the Sabbath -- and DHK would not be having all this heart burn over the subject. All the vitriol and acrimony so often seen in DHK and Biblicist's responses on this subject would simply vanish.

Now why do you suppose that is??

I'll say it again. Your verses are meaningless in answering these questions which you fail to avoid.
If I ask you "How do celebrate Thanksgiving?" will you simply dodge that question

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Wow the Bible verses I listed are meaningless according to you - in your sacrifice-all-for-war-against-the-Sabbath idea. So much Bible to "dismiss" so little time???

Never thought it would come to that.

What is amazing is that the Bible you 'dismiss' as not being informative - includes the command to assemble for worship on Sabbath in Is 66:23 and in Lev 23.

And what about the other texts listed speaking specifically about not engaging in business or work as in the case of Ex 20:8-11 are you really claiming to dismiss them because you don' t know what business or work is so they are of no use in giving us information on what we are to do on Sabbath - they are "meaningless" as you say??

You claim these texts do not tell us what is supposed to be done on Sabbath though they list the fact that we are to cease from our daily labor and we are to assemble before God in worship -yet you then toss these texts out claiming they are "meaningless" when it comes to the information about what is to be done on Sabbath??

Who buys that?

Steaver maybe in his choice to "honor" the Sabbath - such a way that he cannot even bring himself to quote God's Sabbath commandment??

Seriously?

The use of "Bible avoidance" to dance around the subject of the Ten Commandments and the fact that the 4th Commandment is valid - is not as difficult to detect as you may have at first imagined.

I don't need you meaningless Bible verses for you to tell me how you celebrate a festival: Christmas, Thanksgiving, or the Sabbath.

The more you call God's Word meaningless as it speaks to what we are supposed to do on the Sabbath - the more you reveal the spirit behind your position.

So you reject all of scripture on this subject except for your tiny focus on "picking up sticks" Which I have said before on this thread - I am not picking up sticks on Sabbath.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

The more you call God's Word meaningless as it speaks to what we are supposed to do on the Sabbath - the more you reveal the spirit behind your position.

So you reject all of scripture on this subject except for your tiny focus on "picking up sticks" Which I have said before on this thread - I am not picking up sticks on Sabbath.

You have proved to all here that your posting of Scripture is meaningless.
Take a look:
[FONT=&quot]10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

nor your stranger who is within your gates

In the Bible the "gates" refer to the city. Every city had walls, and at the entrance were gates. If you remember Lot sat at the gate of the city in Sodom. Absalom also sat at the gate befriending the people. Boaz sat at the gate of the city to conduct business when he redeemed Naomi's land and Ruth along with it.
What city do you live in, and what are the entrances to the city and what are the territorial boundaries?

If any should work within your city, Bob, then you are responsible for them. But let's confine that just to your own home. Every time you use your electricity, gas, water, or any utility you are causing someone to work. You are then breaking the sabbath, and the person working for you (your servant) needs to be stoned--the stranger in the city.
--You don't read carefully, nor apply what you read to yourself.

You post meaninglessly, and treat the scripture as if it were meaningless to you. Thus you post "meaningless scripture," for indeed it is meaningless to you!! It has no meaning, no application, no value to you. They are just words on paper that you pay lip service to, but do not obey.
You can't obey them and prove that you can't obey them simply by ignoring this type of post.
[/FONT]

 

[saturneptune]

We should all refuse to debate SDA church members. They are a cult that is farther out than the RCC. They define their message and warp verses to match their warped message. We might as well allow Hindus and Buddhists on the board.

 

[steaver]

[/I]




As I said -- "One of the things most notable about the Messianic Jewish congregations I have visited during their Saturday morning Sabbath services - is that they all claim to have a lot of interest among former Seventh-day Adventists who go there because the Messianic groups have the same acceptance of the 4th commandment"

This is not only what I observed - it is was they took hours to explain to me.


in Christ,

Bob

In all their explaining, did they tell you why these folks decided to reject Adventism?

 

[BobRyan]

There were former Adventists there - but I was talking to the Pastor\Rabbi -- He did not indicate that he was a former Adventist only that his congregation and a number of others had a number of former Seventh-day Adventists.

I did not ask if they had any former Seventh-day Baptists.

In any case the Seventh-day Adventist group is now larger than the Messianic Jewish congregations and the Southern Baptists - so I am not sure how much the Messianic Jewish program is hurting our growth.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

We should all refuse to debate SDA church members. They are a cult that is farther out than the RCC.

There is "a reason" that groups like the Southern Baptists are shrinking. I was not sure what it was - until I began following SN's solutions to various Bible texts that appear to refute some popular beliefs.

I am starting to figure it out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You have proved to all here that your posting of Scripture is meaningless.

The more you claim scripture that speaks to how we are to keep the Sabbath is "meaningless" the more you weakend your opposition to the 4th Commandment.

Notice -- there are a number of groups - both Sunday Keeping and Sabbath keeping that affirm ALL TEN of the TEN commandments - and do not go to your extremes in their opposition to them.

[FONT=&quot]Ex 20:
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.



Isaiah 58
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,

Isaiah 56

For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
5 Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—


Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.


[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor many of the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

=========================

I keep pointing out that last paragraph above -

========================

Take a look:
[FONT=&quot]10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.


In the Bible the "gates" refer to the city. Every city had walls, and at the entrance were gates. If you remember Lot sat at the gate of the city in Sodom.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

There was no requirement for Lot to make Sodom keep Sabbath.

There was no requirement for Israel to make Babylon keep Sabbath while they were captive.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith - freely admits to the limits between the Civil laws of the theocracy and the MORAL law of the Ten Commandments.

Though to your credit - some of the Pharisees in Christ day tried your stunt on Christ - with the woman caught in adultery - while they were under Roman occupation.

If any should work within your city, Bob, then you are responsible for them.

[/FONT]

Not according to your own Baptist Confession of Faith.

As you "make stuff up" you are not only going against the Bible details - but even your own Baptist groups do not agree with the stuff you are making up.


Once the "all call" is sounded for "any ol excuse will do" some of the more Bible-avoidance prone are bound to join in the chorus. I am sure you and I have both seen that before on various subjects.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith - freely admits to the limits between the Civil laws of the theocracy and the MORAL law of the Ten Commandments.

The Baptist Confession of Faith is not my authority. Is it yours? Since when did you become a Baptist? Have you denounced and rejected all of SDA's beliefs as the Baptist Confession of Faith would have you to whether by inference or otherwise.

Though to your credit - some of the Pharisees in Christ day tried your stunt on Christ - with the woman caught in adultery - while they were under Roman occupation.

Wrong again. The adulterous woman had nothing to do with the Sabbath, but rather adultery. Jesus explained adultery in Mat.5--simply to look upon a woman and to lust after her. It was a requirement much harder to keep then the Pharisees thought; much like keeping the Sabbath is.
It is much harder than you think, but you pay lip service and post verses that are totally meaningless to you because you don't apply the meaning to yourself.
[/FONT]

Not according to your own Baptist Confession of Faith.

This is now your rule of faith and order; I have never read it. I really don't care what it says. Does it say anything about painting your toe-nails? Bob, why are you quoting this to me? It has no meaning; no relevance in my life whatsoever. I have never even read it.

As you "make stuff up" you are not only going against the Bible details - but even your own Baptist groups do not agree with the stuff you are making up.

Are you sure about that?
Have you asked them?
When I asked you these same questions, Steaver posted and said: Hey, those are good questions to ask. He was in agreement. In fact he has been pushing all along: "HOW do you keep the Sabbath?"
You won't tell how because you will be caught in a trap of hypocrisy. From the title of the thread you know that "It is impossible to keep the Sabbath." You can't prove me wrong; you won't even try.

Once the "all call" is sounded for "any ol excuse will do" some of the more Bible-avoidance prone are bound to join in the chorus. I am sure you and I have both seen that before on various subjects.

Any excuse Bob; any excuse! How many excuses have you made to dodge the questions asked of you? Do you know how to answer direct straight forward questions. Do you have that ability any more?

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]

There was no requirement for Lot to make Sodom keep Sabbath.

There was no requirement for Israel to make Babylon keep Sabbath while they were captive.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith - freely admits to the limits between the Civil laws of the theocracy and the MORAL law of the Ten Commandments.

Though to your credit - some of the Pharisees in Christ day tried your stunt on Christ - with the woman caught in adultery - while they were under Roman occupation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
If any should work within your city, Bob, then you are responsible for them.

[/FONT]

Not according to your own Baptist Confession of Faith.

As you "make stuff up" you are not only going against the Bible details - but even your own Baptist groups do not agree with the stuff you are making up.

The Baptist Confession of Faith is not my authority. Is it yours? Since when did you become a Baptist?

That is just the point. Your own Baptists don't go for the story telling you are doing - how much less would someone who is NOT a Baptist want to climb wayyyyy out there on that limb where you have gone to escape the Bible teaching on "how to keep" the Sabbath by engaging in corporate worship and refraining from work.

Have you denounced and rejected all of SDA's beliefs

Clearly you are grasping for straws.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]
That is just the point. Your own Baptists don't go for the story telling you are doing

Who are MY Baptists? I have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't own Baptists. In case you didn't know it, I am IFB, independent from all others. I don't belong to any other group of Baptists. I don't "have" Baptists.
And you don't answer questions!

- how much less would someone who is NOT a Baptist want to climb wayyyyy out there on that limb where you have gone to escape the Bible teaching on "how to keep" the Sabbath by engaging in corporate worship and refraining from work.

The hypocritical SDA who claims to keep the Sabbath but doesn't because he can't and knows it is impossible to keep. It is a sham!

Answer the questions Bob. They are biblically based. You shouldn't have to avoid them all the time.

Tell me:
1. Do you, on the Sabbath travel a greater distance than "a Sabbath Day's Journey"?
2. Do you wear clothing that is "divers?" or is it all of one kind?
3. Do you cause anyone else to work on the Sabbath? (by using their fuel, etc.)?

Have you completely prepared everything you need before the Sabbath begins--and I mean everything?
Then, what do you do on the Sabbath that you keep it?
Don't quote meaningless Scripture to me.
Tell me the answers to the above questions. Your scripture doesn't answer what YOU do.

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot] Originally Posted by BobRyan

There was no requirement for Lot to make Sodom keep Sabbath.

There was no requirement for Israel to make Babylon keep Sabbath while they were captive.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith - freely admits to the limits between the Civil laws of the theocracy and the MORAL law of the Ten Commandments.

Though to your credit - some of the Pharisees in Christ day tried your stunt on Christ - with the woman caught in adultery - while they were under Roman occupation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
If any should work within your city, Bob, then you are responsible for them.

[/FONT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Not according to your own Baptist Confession of Faith.

As you "make stuff up" you are not only going against the Bible details - but even your own Baptist groups do not agree with the stuff you are making up.

Who are MY Baptists? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok so - D.L. Moody, and the "Baptist Confession of Faith", and C.H. Spurgeon, and Andy Stanley and ... you know "Baptists".

As it turns out - I am not a Baptist -- you are .

This should not come as a surprise.

So then the "Baptist Confession of Faith" says.

[FONT=&quot]Section 19
. The Law of God [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]God gave to Adam a law[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of universal obedience which was written in his heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away. [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times. [/FONT]

You mix what your own sunday-keeping "Baptists" call the "sundry judicial" laws along with the "Mishnah" to get your "Sabbath days journey" and other items in your list.

Which you prefer to focus on instead of what you call "meaningless scripture" in Ex 20:8-11 calling for a day of rest on God's Sabbath, Is 66:23 Lev 23:1-3 calling for corporate worship on God's Sabbath.

So "yeah" these are the texts your own Baptists would affirm as you seek to focus on the Mishnah "instead". If even your own Baptists do not choose to go along with the "any ol excuse will do" idea for tossing the Ten Commandments under a bus - how much less would a NON Baptist want to join your game in that regard?

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]Is 66
“And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from sabbath to sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


NKJV

And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Lev 23
23 The Lord spoke again to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.


[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

 

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

Bob still fails to answer straight forward questions.

I will start it for you Bob. It goes this way:
This is how I keep the Sabbath; I...., and I....., and I.....

That is HOW I keep the Sabbath.

Can you do that Bob?

I am not interested in the others that you misquote and slander, who do not keep the Sabbath, but rather have renamed the Sabbath as Sunday and keep it as a day set apart unto the Lord. Thus you continually misrepresent those whom you have quoted. Very deceitful!

Just answer the questions Bob.
Or rightly conclude that the Sabbath is impossible for you to keep.

 

[BobRyan]

I assemble for worship on Sabbath according to Is 66:23 and Lev 23:1-3.

I refrain from daily work on Sabbath as per Ex 20:8-11, and Isaiah 58:13.

I keep Sabbath from 'evening to evening' as God tells us in Lev 23.

I admit that it is in the "Commandments of God" - yes even in the TEN Commandments.

And since God says it is the "Seventh day" that IS the Sabbath in Ex 20:8-11 and was made a holy day in Gen 2:1-3 -- and that is the "Holy Day of the LORD" in Is 5:13... well I honor His Day - His Way.

Everyone has free will - you don't have to obey God just because I do.

This just does not get any easier.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.

I am not interested in the others that you misquote and slander, who do not keep the Sabbath, but rather have renamed the Sabbath as Sunday and keep it as a day set apart unto the Lord. Thus you continually misrepresent those whom you have quoted. Very deceitful!
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details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19

Each 10 or 20th time I mention these these sources as "Sunday keeping" you come back with utter gibberish nonsense of the form

" others that you misquote and slander, who do not keep the Sabbath, but rather have renamed the Sabbath as Sunday and keep it as a day set apart unto the Lord. Thus you continually misrepresent those whom you have quoted. Very deceitful!"

Is there any reader here who interprets my statement "well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19" above to be in any way slow to claim these sources as sunday keeping??

Really??

Not even ONE here who buys into DHK's wild slander?

Come on- I have to think it is working for at least one person here besides DHK.

I mean I know that vitriol, acrimony and diatribe go a long way with DHK and one or two others - but I have to think that even he would be embarrassed to keep posting right in the face of the plain facts here - if there were not at least one person paying so little attention to the details just posted that they would buy into his wild accusations.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Yeshua1]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups, nor R.C Sproul.



details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19

Each 10 or 20th time I mention these these sources as "Sunday keeping" you come back with utter gibberish nonsense of the form

" others that you misquote and slander, who do not keep the Sabbath, but rather have renamed the Sabbath as Sunday and keep it as a day set apart unto the Lord. Thus you continually misrepresent those whom you have quoted. Very deceitful!"

Is there any reader here who interprets my statement "well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19" above to be in any way slow to claim these sources as sunday keeping??

Really??

Not even ONE here who buys into DHK's wild slander?

Come on- I have to think it is working for at least one person here besides DHK.

I mean I know that vitriol, acrimony and diatribe go a long way with DHK and one or two others - but I have to think that even he would be embarrassed to keep posting right in the face of the plain facts here - if there were not at least one person paying so little attention to the details just posted that they would buy into his wild accusations.

in Christ,

Bob

Are we saved and made right with God thru observing the Law and keeping the Sabbath, or by the Cross of Christ?

can't have both save you!

 

[DHK]

I assemble for worship on Sabbath according to Is 66:23 and Lev 23:1-3.

I refrain from daily work on Sabbath as per Ex 20:8-11, and Isaiah 58:13.

I keep Sabbath from 'evening to evening' as God tells us in Lev 23.

I admit that it is in the "Commandments of God" - yes even in the TEN Commandments.

And since God says it is the "Seventh day" that IS the Sabbath in Ex 20:8-11 and was made a holy day in Gen 2:1-3 -- and that is the "Holy Day of the LORD" in Is 5:13... well I honor His Day - His Way.
Bob

An excellent start Bob. I appreciate your answer. You are at least starting to engage in a conversation in how you specifically keep the Sabbath. Now, in the light of what you just said:

Tell me:
1. Do you, on the Sabbath travel a greater distance than "a Sabbath Day's Journey"?
2. Do you wear clothing that is "divers?" or is it all of one kind?
3. Do you cause anyone else to work on the Sabbath? (by using their fuel, etc.)?

These also pertain to the Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

I assemble for worship on Sabbath according to Is 66:23 and Lev 23:1-3.

I refrain from daily work on Sabbath as per Ex 20:8-11, and Isaiah 58:13.

I keep Sabbath from 'evening to evening' as God tells us in Lev 23.

I admit that it is in the "Commandments of God" - yes even in the TEN Commandments.

And since God says it is the "Seventh day" that IS the Sabbath in Ex 20:8-11 and was made a holy day in Gen 2:1-3 -- and that is the "Holy Day of the LORD" in Is 5:13... well I honor His Day - His Way.

An excellent start Bob. I appreciate your answer. You are at least starting to engage in a conversation in how you specifically keep the Sabbath.

You are welcome. I have posted them dozens of times so far - but if now is when we make "the connection" well then wonderful..

Prior to this you had been referring to these texts as "meaningless" in terms of telling us "HOW TO KEEP" the Sabbath.

I view this is a big step forward.

Now, in the light of what you just said:

Tell me:
1. Do you, on the Sabbath travel a greater distance than "a Sabbath Day's Journey"?

That is an excellent question that does not arise from any text listed above.

How do you suppose that is??

Do you have an OT text that tells you "do not travel more than a Sabbath day's journey " and then specifies what that actually is according to God?

Or are you using the Mishnah as your guide and wondering if I am inserting the Mishnah into the texts I have listed?

OR are you not wanting to admit that these texts speak to HOW to KEEP the Sabbath - even as I point out the details of what they say on that subject?

Just why the bait-and-switch at this point - jumping over to the Mishnah?

2. Do you wear clothing that is "divers?" or is it all of one kind?

Did you also find that in the Sabbath texts I quoted?

Where?

In the OT, basic human services were allowed on Sabbath - Christ included pre-cross acrts of mercy, healing, Church services, work in the temple and in the OT - even the "Ox in the ditch" type of work to provide for basic needs was allowed.

Luke 14:5
5 Then He answered them, saying, “Which of you, having a donkey or an ox that has fallen into a pit, will not immediately pull him out on the Sabbath day?”


However there are some Orthodox Rabbis today that might just affirm your view of the Bible - even if your own Baptist Confession of Faith rejects the path you are taking.

In our day and age - electric generators -- gas pipelines etc are either "on or off". Church services require basic necessities - like electricity and gas, heating, sound, lights, and the sick in some cases require electric devices to keep them alive or out of serious health risk, as well as providing heat etc.

The generators are "either on or off". And so as many even of your own Sunday keeping sources admit - Matt 12:1-12 provides for basic necessities met on Sabbath even though the disciples were not "about to die" yet meeting basic needs was acceptable.

As we can all see from the texts you are ignoring and your "reach" to asking about "stick"s etc - your interest is not in what the Bible says on "how to KEEP" the Sabbath but rather you seem to be trying to find an "any ol excuse" out here. Not exactly 'sola scriptura' testing of doctrine and practice.

in Christ,

Bob