-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
In Context reading of scriptures
- Thread starter Seth3
- Start date
Seth3's link leads here
"Rightly Dividing the Word of God by a Principle Only The Apostles Understood"
by Mike Vinson
First post by D_
The allegorical approach to Scripture is the gnostic approach to Scripture. Gnosicism is a heresy which John, in his first epistle exposed.
Here are a couple of reviews of L. Ray Smiths works and/or website.
Me2 Corrects this as well saying in his first post
saying,
the writer mentioned is mike vinson. an excellent writer.
Seth speaking
That was THE END of it. (others can go back and read it, nothings hidden)
THEN again D_ interjects and accuses here (because of MY POST) which he copy pastes this.
If a Woman is married and years later comes to know the Lord as her savior. Must she submit unto her husband in all things if the husband is not being abusive but has strong opionons which are not her own? (By Seth3)
He states
Then, ironically, you asked others (pastors and teachers) do give you advice on how to solve this dilemma.
Why did not the SPIRIT lead you into all truth as you claim it does? You have lied. You have shown your true colors here. You need others who know the Bible, who can expound the Scriptures properly, who know how to rightly divide the Word of truth, to give you the right answer. You couldn't come to the right answer yourself. You had to pose this question to others because you didn't have the answer to it.
Seth3 replies,
I kept telling D_ I did not "go to church" and I did not feel led to HIM in asking his permission for what already knew and understood completely. So I opened up a post in case he gets on my back about it because this was a big issue to D_.
He is showing from this example that HE is right and I needed the answers from others when I already knew the answer myself to which all agreed on the thread (with my position) .
So D_ says this
Why did not the SPIRIT lead you into all truth as you claim it does?
Seth3
Which I must answer, He did as I told him this over and over again on a bunch of threads I just did not want to discuss my private life with him because I do not feel that bond of trust with someone who deals with others in a less then loving way.
D_ thus concludes saying,
You have lied.
Seth3 replies,
Again this is determined from HIS perspective, THINKING I was asking about "someone else" but he was not aware that I was seeking to show HIM what I already understood very clearly.
D_ thinks and says
You have shown your true colors here.
Seth3 replies,
I'm sure I have because he is unable to see the whole picture but did jump on any opportunity to accuse without fully knowing the details.
D_ says,
You couldn't come to the right answer yourself.
Seth3 replies,
Again I had come to the answer myself as the Lord directed. I wanted to have a place of "reference" to link D_ to so I would not discuss this with him because its none of his business. The answer I recieved from others hands down was the decision I made was correct on my own under the Lords leading.
D_ says
You had to pose this question to others because you didn't have the answer to it.
Seth3 replies
Not at all I have proven otherwise. I also note no appology given for his accusations of lying. Which if I did the moderaters would shut down the thread. Theres something called partiality in scriptures as well. Then ofcourse "My fruit" is in question of which he makes equal "Fruit " Love Joy and peace in the Holy Spirit and changes what God deems as Fruit and puts his own spin on what he thinks is fruit. He calls things names but cannot reprove them biblically then when you prove your point to him he twists on something new to accuse you of rather then trying to be answerable to a kind discussion from scripture.
My conclusion here
Its a "game" its "fear tactics" its "whose winning" verses a love for the Truth himself.
You can have it D_ But you can't take my Joy in the Lord.
In Him
Seth3
[ November 22, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
"Rightly Dividing the Word of God by a Principle Only The Apostles Understood"
by Mike Vinson
First post by D_
The allegorical approach to Scripture is the gnostic approach to Scripture. Gnosicism is a heresy which John, in his first epistle exposed.
Here are a couple of reviews of L. Ray Smiths works and/or website.
Me2 Corrects this as well saying in his first post
saying,
the writer mentioned is mike vinson. an excellent writer.
Seth speaking
That was THE END of it. (others can go back and read it, nothings hidden)
THEN again D_ interjects and accuses here (because of MY POST) which he copy pastes this.
If a Woman is married and years later comes to know the Lord as her savior. Must she submit unto her husband in all things if the husband is not being abusive but has strong opionons which are not her own? (By Seth3)
He states
Then, ironically, you asked others (pastors and teachers) do give you advice on how to solve this dilemma.
Why did not the SPIRIT lead you into all truth as you claim it does? You have lied. You have shown your true colors here. You need others who know the Bible, who can expound the Scriptures properly, who know how to rightly divide the Word of truth, to give you the right answer. You couldn't come to the right answer yourself. You had to pose this question to others because you didn't have the answer to it.
Seth3 replies,
I kept telling D_ I did not "go to church" and I did not feel led to HIM in asking his permission for what already knew and understood completely. So I opened up a post in case he gets on my back about it because this was a big issue to D_.
He is showing from this example that HE is right and I needed the answers from others when I already knew the answer myself to which all agreed on the thread (with my position) .
So D_ says this
Why did not the SPIRIT lead you into all truth as you claim it does?
Seth3
Which I must answer, He did as I told him this over and over again on a bunch of threads I just did not want to discuss my private life with him because I do not feel that bond of trust with someone who deals with others in a less then loving way.
D_ thus concludes saying,
You have lied.
Seth3 replies,
Again this is determined from HIS perspective, THINKING I was asking about "someone else" but he was not aware that I was seeking to show HIM what I already understood very clearly.
D_ thinks and says
You have shown your true colors here.
Seth3 replies,
I'm sure I have because he is unable to see the whole picture but did jump on any opportunity to accuse without fully knowing the details.
D_ says,
You couldn't come to the right answer yourself.
Seth3 replies,
Again I had come to the answer myself as the Lord directed. I wanted to have a place of "reference" to link D_ to so I would not discuss this with him because its none of his business. The answer I recieved from others hands down was the decision I made was correct on my own under the Lords leading.
D_ says
You had to pose this question to others because you didn't have the answer to it.
Seth3 replies
Not at all I have proven otherwise. I also note no appology given for his accusations of lying. Which if I did the moderaters would shut down the thread. Theres something called partiality in scriptures as well. Then ofcourse "My fruit" is in question of which he makes equal "Fruit " Love Joy and peace in the Holy Spirit and changes what God deems as Fruit and puts his own spin on what he thinks is fruit. He calls things names but cannot reprove them biblically then when you prove your point to him he twists on something new to accuse you of rather then trying to be answerable to a kind discussion from scripture.
My conclusion here
Its a "game" its "fear tactics" its "whose winning" verses a love for the Truth himself.
You can have it D_ But you can't take my Joy in the Lord.
In Him
Seth3
[ November 22, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
edited--not relevant to discussion.
Me2 and Seth,
The moderators and administrators of this board have decided that you allegorical and gnostic posts are not edifying. You have posted a topic: "In context Reading of Scriptures," or otherwise, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you cannot directly address the topic in plain speech your posts will be deleted.
DHK
[ November 23, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
Me2 and Seth,
The moderators and administrators of this board have decided that you allegorical and gnostic posts are not edifying. You have posted a topic: "In context Reading of Scriptures," or otherwise, rightly dividing the word of truth. If you cannot directly address the topic in plain speech your posts will be deleted.
DHK
[ November 23, 2004, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]
I reposted fire on another thread and it too was deleted. Is there anything of scripture we can share on the "All other Christian discussions"?
What exactly are you looking for? If you can define it for me it would help us immensely. We are trying to show how God himself defines through His word what He means.
Your help will be appreciated in defining your terms to us.
Thank you
Seth3
What exactly are you looking for? If you can define it for me it would help us immensely. We are trying to show how God himself defines through His word what He means.
Your help will be appreciated in defining your terms to us.
Thank you
Seth3
What does fire have to do with anything? It does not. It had no relevancy to the topic at all, just as the claim to walk on water did. It is pure allegorization of Scripture which leads to heretical beliefs. Jesus talked to his disciples plainly. If you don't know how to use plain speech, conversational speech, then your posts will be deleted. The allegories and allegorical approach to Scripture is no longer being tolerated.
DHK
DHK
How can something be heretical if it leads you to Jesus Christ who IS "The Truth"?
What is your explanation of this verse. Once regarding Christ after the flesh and no longer doing so?
2Corinth 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.
In Him
Seth3
What is your explanation of this verse. Once regarding Christ after the flesh and no longer doing so?
2Corinth 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.
In Him
Seth3
You post pithy little statements without meanings.
You post verses without explanation. You are probably afraid to give the meaning of the verse yourself because you know someone will disagree with you. Realize that this is a debate forum, where topics are posted in order to be discussed and debated.
How can something be heretical if it leads you to Jesus Christ who is the turth?
The Mormons and J.W.'s claim the same thing. They both claim to have Christ, and they both claim to have the truth. They also both are heretical.
So in the above post it is your duty to take what you have written (such as 2Cor.5:16), and give your explanation of it, so that others can either disagree or agree with it.
Just to post a verse for the sake of posting it has no value. We all have our Bibles here and can do the same thing. Why take up needless space on the board.
DHK
You post verses without explanation. You are probably afraid to give the meaning of the verse yourself because you know someone will disagree with you. Realize that this is a debate forum, where topics are posted in order to be discussed and debated.
How can something be heretical if it leads you to Jesus Christ who is the turth?
The Mormons and J.W.'s claim the same thing. They both claim to have Christ, and they both claim to have the truth. They also both are heretical.
So in the above post it is your duty to take what you have written (such as 2Cor.5:16), and give your explanation of it, so that others can either disagree or agree with it.
Just to post a verse for the sake of posting it has no value. We all have our Bibles here and can do the same thing. Why take up needless space on the board.
DHK
I would not consider posting the word of God as taking up meaningless space at all. In fact His word does not come back void. No man can thwart Gods purposes. That would mean we were stronger then Him and we are not.
Even if something is meant for evil God can turn it to be for good.
If we make mistakes He's bigger then that. If our salvation hung on getting it absolutely correct rather then on Jesus Christ (Who is The Truth) to whom we cleave. Everyone would be doomed because we all understand in part as even Paul said.
Grace allows growth and Love covers where we fall short. The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love.
If there is no love scripture itself declares you can know everything perfectly and be nothing at all.
So maybe we are at different places of understanding, God does not condemn us but teaches us. Thats the new covenant. With the Old he finds fault, but we are made perfect by the blood of Christ.
Peter was not converted until after he fell once again and Paul brought him back again. The fall is always from Grace. Which is exactly where Peter fell withdrawing in hopcricy. God never left Peter. Jesus loved Peter and he didn't have all his ducks lined up in a row.
Seeing through a glass darkly is biblical. So also is hearing what others say. We are each to weigh what is said ourselves through scriptures and the hearer decide. Thats the body of Christ participating as it was meant to.
In Him
Seth3
Even if something is meant for evil God can turn it to be for good.
If we make mistakes He's bigger then that. If our salvation hung on getting it absolutely correct rather then on Jesus Christ (Who is The Truth) to whom we cleave. Everyone would be doomed because we all understand in part as even Paul said.
Grace allows growth and Love covers where we fall short. The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love.
If there is no love scripture itself declares you can know everything perfectly and be nothing at all.
So maybe we are at different places of understanding, God does not condemn us but teaches us. Thats the new covenant. With the Old he finds fault, but we are made perfect by the blood of Christ.
Peter was not converted until after he fell once again and Paul brought him back again. The fall is always from Grace. Which is exactly where Peter fell withdrawing in hopcricy. God never left Peter. Jesus loved Peter and he didn't have all his ducks lined up in a row.
Seeing through a glass darkly is biblical. So also is hearing what others say. We are each to weigh what is said ourselves through scriptures and the hearer decide. Thats the body of Christ participating as it was meant to.
In Him
Seth3
For most people a verse or even a portion of Scripture is meaningless unless it is explained. Take a portion of Scripture. Does your explanation have a different meaning than David Koresh or Jim Jones? I hope so. That is why it needs an explanation.
God can. That is true. But so can Satan. He uses Scripture too. He quoted Scripture to Jesus during the Temptation. Scripture needs a proper interpretation.
Concerning salvation we don't understand in part; we understand the whole. And when someone posts unbiblically or falsely it needs to be corrected before all the internet readers start believing heresy that has been posted. You see you have just referred to a passage and taken it out of context to make it mean something other than it was intended to mean without even realizing it.
When Paul said "we undersand in part" he was referring specifically to the Corinthians and the first century Christians who did not have the completed Word of God. They would understand the whole, at the end of the first century (after his death) when the canon of Scripture was complete. He was referring to the Word of God. We know longer have "the part." We do have the whole (the entire Word of God," and the means to understand it.
This is kind of a wishy washy statement that grew out of the '60's. Do you remember the Beatle's song "All you need is love?" They weren't saved. And the statement is not true.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. If one is to grow in grace, one needs to study the word of God. It is essential to your well-being as a Christian: prayer and Bible study. Love doesn't cover everything.
Love is essential, but it is not the all in all. Without doctrine you will fail. In Acts 2, the early believers continued in the Apostles' doctrine daily. Doctrine was very important to the early church, and so it is now.
We are all at different levels of understanding. That is true. But we need to strive to grow. In doing so that means receiving correction when one is wrong. That means to be humble enough to be taught.
This is a false doctrine that needs to be checked. To say that Peter was converted later on in his life is false. He may have failed by denying Christ 3 times, but he was still a saved man. He was the first to give an outward confession of Christ. He was a chosen Apostle of Christ. Jesus singled out only one that was not a true disciple--Judas Iscariot. He said one of you is a devil. You use this word hypocrisy quite a bit. Peter fell. He sinned by denying the Lord. That has nothing to do with hypocrisy. He immediately went out and repented bitterly weeping for what he had done. That is not hypocrisy.
Give the Scripture where we "see through a glass darkly" You may be taking that one out of its context. Every Scripture is "Scriputral"
But what do you mean by that Scripture? That is the question. And thus the explanation is required. Now do you see what I mean. So quote the Scripture, with the reference so we can see the context. There are two places in Scripture where such an expression is used. Our duty is to rightly divide the Word of Truth. A proper study of Scripture is to take Scripture in its context and derive the meaning from the context, making sure that it does not contradict any other Scripture, and is also in harmony with all other Scripture. Compare Scripture with Scripture. But keep things in its context.
DHK
Seth3 says
I would not consider posting the word of God as taking up meaningless space at all. In fact His word does not come back void. No man can thwart Gods purposes. That would mean we were stronger then Him and we are not.
DHK replies
For most people a verse or even a portion of Scripture is meaningless unless it is explained. Take a portion of Scripture. Does your explanation have a different meaning than David Koresh or Jim Jones? I hope so. That is why it needs an explanation.
Seth3 replies,
If no interpretation had its origin in man then scriptures would define itself. You don’t agree with my interpretation so when I don’t post an explanation you get just as upset when I don’t. His word doesn’t return void, I simply believe it. Why on earth are we given the Holy Spirit and told to abide in how he teaches if we need a man to teach, that’s contrary to scripture. Paul was the one whos gospel we are saved by everyone has the same book (complete just as you agreed in another thread).
Seth3 is quoted by DHK
Even if something is meant for evil God can turn it to be for good.
DHK replies,
God can. That is true. But so can Satan. He uses Scripture too. He quoted Scripture to Jesus during the Temptation. Scripture needs a proper interpretation.
Seth3 replies
Indeed Satan QUESTIONS YOUR SONSHIP. “IF THOU ART THE SON OF GOD”
He comes to steal kill and destroy what’s in you. He comes to steal the sure word sown in your heart. Makes you try and doubt what Christ has promised. To all who received Him He gave the power to become the sons of God.
Satan works in accordance to how scripture shows Him working. But God does not let you be tempted by Him with more then you can bear. You are confronted by Him as the Holy Spirit leads you to where He has his seat and throne. THERE you are tempted and come back in the power of the Spirit of God and overcome Him. Because what you have is an ANCHOR and a house built upon Rock (Christ).
DHK Quotes Seth3
If we make mistakes He's bigger then that. If our salvation hung on getting it absolutely correct rather then on Jesus Christ (Who is The Truth) to whom we cleave. Everyone would be doomed because we all understand in part as even Paul said.
DHK replies
Concerning salvation we don't understand in part; we understand the whole. And when someone posts unbiblically or falsely it needs to be corrected before all the internet readers start believing heresy that has been posted. You see you have just referred to a passage and taken it out of context to make it mean something other than it was intended to mean without even realizing it.
When Paul said "we undersand in part" he was referring specifically to the Corinthians and the first century Christians who did not have the completed Word of God. They would understand the whole, at the end of the first century (after his death) when the canon of Scripture was complete. He was referring to the Word of God. We know longer have "the part." We do have the whole (the entire Word of God," and the means to understand it.
Seth3 replies,
Then by your own words we can know the scriptures without being taught because we understand perfectly what is plainly written right?
With all the thousands of interpretations out there claiming they have the whole truth and nothing but the truth because they have the bible and confess that it alone is the authority, understanding and teaching by men has really prevailed then?
Seth3 says
Grace allows growth and Love covers where we fall short. The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love.
DHK replies
This is kind of a wishy washy statement that grew out of the '60's. Do you remember the Beatle's song "All you need is love?" They weren't saved. And the statement is not true.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. If one is to grow in grace, one needs to study the word of God. It is essential to your well-being as a Christian: prayer and Bible study. Love doesn't cover everything.
Seth3 replies,
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Of Love it is THE GOAL OF OUR FAITH- THE ROYAL LAW and THE FRUIT OF THE FAITH and the FACTOR to determine who is NOT born of God.
Scriptures declare it TRUE I believe Scripture.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
2John 1:6 And this is LOVE, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.
Epesh 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
1Thes 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
DHK QUOTES SETH3
If there is no love scripture itself declares you can know everything perfectly and be nothing at all.
DHK replies
Love is essential, but it is not the all in all. Without doctrine you will fail. In Acts 2, the early believers continued in the Apostles' doctrine daily. Doctrine was very important to the early church, and so it is now.
Seth3 replies,
Love of God and neighbor, and goal of our faith and the Royal law is SOUND DOCTRINE based on “God so loved the world” Remember? Jesus commands are to “Walk in Love”. The goal of our faith “Is to Love”
Why do you think we must watch our LIVES as well as our doctrine? Because if our Doctrine (The tree we partake of) is the right one IT PRODUCES THE FRUIT of righteousness by abiding in the True Vine Christ. Who apart from we can produce no fruit evidenced by Love. A tree is KNOWN by its FRUIT. The Fruit of the SPIRIT as defined by scripture as attributes of Love.
When I was sick, hungry, naked, in prison YOU DID FOR ME.
The others “Prophesied in His name, do many wonderful works, He never knew THEM. We are KNOWN BY HIM by the LOVE we have in us as John says… Anyone who LOVES is KNOWN BY GOD. He KNOWS THEM. The others He does not know. Great works but its not LOVE.
2Corinth 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
DHK QUOTES SETH3
So maybe we are at different places of understanding, God does not condemn us but teaches us. Thats the new covenant. With the Old he finds fault, but we are made perfect by the blood of Christ.
DHK replies
We are all at different levels of understanding. That is true. But we need to strive to grow. In doing so that means receiving correction when one is wrong. That means to be humble enough to be taught.
Seth3 replies,
I learn everyday in Christ and through others. I even learn from persecutions from friendships, from insights of others from example, from studying to show myself approved unto God. Through anything He can teach me. I am very teachable if someone has in them the Holy Spirit from where I might partake of that drink.
DHK QUOTES SETH3
Peter was not converted until after he fell once again and Paul brought him back again. The fall is always from Grace. Which is exactly where Peter fell withdrawing in hopcricy. God never left Peter. Jesus loved Peter and he didn't have all his ducks lined up in a row.
DHK says
This is a false doctrine that needs to be checked. To say that Peter was converted later on in his life is false. He may have failed by denying Christ 3 times, but he was still a saved man. He was the first to give an outward confession of Christ. He was a chosen Apostle of Christ. Jesus singled out only one that was not a true disciple--Judas Iscariot. He said one of you is a devil. You use this word hypocrisy quite a bit. Peter fell. He sinned by denying the Lord. That has nothing to do with hypocrisy. He immediately went out and repented bitterly weeping for what he had done. That is not hypocrisy.
Seth3 replies
I’m simply agreeing with Christ on this.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren.
Peter fell again from the grace of God here…
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Showing in Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Building on being justified by the law rather then faith in Christ. He was falling from Gods grace Paul reproved Him. No biggy we do that for each other. (It was the Yoke of the law and its equated with tempting God in yoking others with it).
DHK QUOTES SETH3
Seeing through a glass darkly is biblical. So also is hearing what others say. We are each to weigh what is said ourselves through scriptures and the hearer decide. Thats the body of Christ participating as it was meant to.
DHK replies
Give the Scripture where we "see through a glass darkly" You may be taking that one out of its context. Every Scripture is "Scriputral" But what do you mean by that Scripture? That is the question. And thus the explanation is required. Now do you see what I mean. So quote the Scripture, with the reference so we can see the context. There are two places in Scripture where such an expression is used.
Our duty is to rightly divide the Word of Truth. A proper study of Scripture is to take Scripture in its context and derive the meaning from the context, making sure that it does not contradict any other Scripture, and is also in harmony with all other Scripture. Compare Scripture with Scripture. But keep things in its context.
Seth3 replies
I see Salvation in Christ complete=It is finished but I believe in the power of God not to work inside of me by His all sufficient grace. A new born babe in Christ is still considered carnal (Milk not solid food) But the Solid food (Meat) is for the mature who have by constant use in training can discern spiritual things. So all scripture is true no doubt but what is true of you as a child might not be true of you when a Father. A child needs to understand he is forgiven (new born babes unsure of Gods forgiveness) These we nuture in the Lord in a labour of love. Young men or sons are seen as overcoming the wicked one, the word of the Lord is strong in these. As Fathers who know the Love of God in a very real way. Who through knowing Him reflect His love and father those in the faith as Paul is as the Father of faith to His children.
1Corinth 13:8 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Corinth 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2Corinth 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as BY THE SPIRIT of the Lord.
2Corinth 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to SHINE OUT OF THE DARKNESS, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the FACE of Jesus Christ.
God bless
Seth3
I would not consider posting the word of God as taking up meaningless space at all. In fact His word does not come back void. No man can thwart Gods purposes. That would mean we were stronger then Him and we are not.
DHK replies
For most people a verse or even a portion of Scripture is meaningless unless it is explained. Take a portion of Scripture. Does your explanation have a different meaning than David Koresh or Jim Jones? I hope so. That is why it needs an explanation.
Seth3 replies,
If no interpretation had its origin in man then scriptures would define itself. You don’t agree with my interpretation so when I don’t post an explanation you get just as upset when I don’t. His word doesn’t return void, I simply believe it. Why on earth are we given the Holy Spirit and told to abide in how he teaches if we need a man to teach, that’s contrary to scripture. Paul was the one whos gospel we are saved by everyone has the same book (complete just as you agreed in another thread).
Seth3 is quoted by DHK
Even if something is meant for evil God can turn it to be for good.
DHK replies,
God can. That is true. But so can Satan. He uses Scripture too. He quoted Scripture to Jesus during the Temptation. Scripture needs a proper interpretation.
Seth3 replies
Indeed Satan QUESTIONS YOUR SONSHIP. “IF THOU ART THE SON OF GOD”
He comes to steal kill and destroy what’s in you. He comes to steal the sure word sown in your heart. Makes you try and doubt what Christ has promised. To all who received Him He gave the power to become the sons of God.
Satan works in accordance to how scripture shows Him working. But God does not let you be tempted by Him with more then you can bear. You are confronted by Him as the Holy Spirit leads you to where He has his seat and throne. THERE you are tempted and come back in the power of the Spirit of God and overcome Him. Because what you have is an ANCHOR and a house built upon Rock (Christ).
DHK Quotes Seth3
If we make mistakes He's bigger then that. If our salvation hung on getting it absolutely correct rather then on Jesus Christ (Who is The Truth) to whom we cleave. Everyone would be doomed because we all understand in part as even Paul said.
DHK replies
Concerning salvation we don't understand in part; we understand the whole. And when someone posts unbiblically or falsely it needs to be corrected before all the internet readers start believing heresy that has been posted. You see you have just referred to a passage and taken it out of context to make it mean something other than it was intended to mean without even realizing it.
When Paul said "we undersand in part" he was referring specifically to the Corinthians and the first century Christians who did not have the completed Word of God. They would understand the whole, at the end of the first century (after his death) when the canon of Scripture was complete. He was referring to the Word of God. We know longer have "the part." We do have the whole (the entire Word of God," and the means to understand it.
Seth3 replies,
Then by your own words we can know the scriptures without being taught because we understand perfectly what is plainly written right?
With all the thousands of interpretations out there claiming they have the whole truth and nothing but the truth because they have the bible and confess that it alone is the authority, understanding and teaching by men has really prevailed then?
Seth3 says
Grace allows growth and Love covers where we fall short. The only thing that matters is faith expressing itself in love.
DHK replies
This is kind of a wishy washy statement that grew out of the '60's. Do you remember the Beatle's song "All you need is love?" They weren't saved. And the statement is not true.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. If one is to grow in grace, one needs to study the word of God. It is essential to your well-being as a Christian: prayer and Bible study. Love doesn't cover everything.
Seth3 replies,
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Of Love it is THE GOAL OF OUR FAITH- THE ROYAL LAW and THE FRUIT OF THE FAITH and the FACTOR to determine who is NOT born of God.
Scriptures declare it TRUE I believe Scripture.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.
2John 1:6 And this is LOVE, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
James 2:8 If ye fulfil the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
1John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.
Epesh 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Gal 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
1Thes 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
DHK QUOTES SETH3
If there is no love scripture itself declares you can know everything perfectly and be nothing at all.
DHK replies
Love is essential, but it is not the all in all. Without doctrine you will fail. In Acts 2, the early believers continued in the Apostles' doctrine daily. Doctrine was very important to the early church, and so it is now.
Seth3 replies,
Love of God and neighbor, and goal of our faith and the Royal law is SOUND DOCTRINE based on “God so loved the world” Remember? Jesus commands are to “Walk in Love”. The goal of our faith “Is to Love”
Why do you think we must watch our LIVES as well as our doctrine? Because if our Doctrine (The tree we partake of) is the right one IT PRODUCES THE FRUIT of righteousness by abiding in the True Vine Christ. Who apart from we can produce no fruit evidenced by Love. A tree is KNOWN by its FRUIT. The Fruit of the SPIRIT as defined by scripture as attributes of Love.
When I was sick, hungry, naked, in prison YOU DID FOR ME.
The others “Prophesied in His name, do many wonderful works, He never knew THEM. We are KNOWN BY HIM by the LOVE we have in us as John says… Anyone who LOVES is KNOWN BY GOD. He KNOWS THEM. The others He does not know. Great works but its not LOVE.
2Corinth 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
DHK QUOTES SETH3
So maybe we are at different places of understanding, God does not condemn us but teaches us. Thats the new covenant. With the Old he finds fault, but we are made perfect by the blood of Christ.
DHK replies
We are all at different levels of understanding. That is true. But we need to strive to grow. In doing so that means receiving correction when one is wrong. That means to be humble enough to be taught.
Seth3 replies,
I learn everyday in Christ and through others. I even learn from persecutions from friendships, from insights of others from example, from studying to show myself approved unto God. Through anything He can teach me. I am very teachable if someone has in them the Holy Spirit from where I might partake of that drink.
DHK QUOTES SETH3
Peter was not converted until after he fell once again and Paul brought him back again. The fall is always from Grace. Which is exactly where Peter fell withdrawing in hopcricy. God never left Peter. Jesus loved Peter and he didn't have all his ducks lined up in a row.
DHK says
This is a false doctrine that needs to be checked. To say that Peter was converted later on in his life is false. He may have failed by denying Christ 3 times, but he was still a saved man. He was the first to give an outward confession of Christ. He was a chosen Apostle of Christ. Jesus singled out only one that was not a true disciple--Judas Iscariot. He said one of you is a devil. You use this word hypocrisy quite a bit. Peter fell. He sinned by denying the Lord. That has nothing to do with hypocrisy. He immediately went out and repented bitterly weeping for what he had done. That is not hypocrisy.
Seth3 replies
I’m simply agreeing with Christ on this.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren.
Peter fell again from the grace of God here…
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Showing in Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Building on being justified by the law rather then faith in Christ. He was falling from Gods grace Paul reproved Him. No biggy we do that for each other. (It was the Yoke of the law and its equated with tempting God in yoking others with it).
DHK QUOTES SETH3
Seeing through a glass darkly is biblical. So also is hearing what others say. We are each to weigh what is said ourselves through scriptures and the hearer decide. Thats the body of Christ participating as it was meant to.
DHK replies
Give the Scripture where we "see through a glass darkly" You may be taking that one out of its context. Every Scripture is "Scriputral" But what do you mean by that Scripture? That is the question. And thus the explanation is required. Now do you see what I mean. So quote the Scripture, with the reference so we can see the context. There are two places in Scripture where such an expression is used.
Our duty is to rightly divide the Word of Truth. A proper study of Scripture is to take Scripture in its context and derive the meaning from the context, making sure that it does not contradict any other Scripture, and is also in harmony with all other Scripture. Compare Scripture with Scripture. But keep things in its context.
Seth3 replies
I see Salvation in Christ complete=It is finished but I believe in the power of God not to work inside of me by His all sufficient grace. A new born babe in Christ is still considered carnal (Milk not solid food) But the Solid food (Meat) is for the mature who have by constant use in training can discern spiritual things. So all scripture is true no doubt but what is true of you as a child might not be true of you when a Father. A child needs to understand he is forgiven (new born babes unsure of Gods forgiveness) These we nuture in the Lord in a labour of love. Young men or sons are seen as overcoming the wicked one, the word of the Lord is strong in these. As Fathers who know the Love of God in a very real way. Who through knowing Him reflect His love and father those in the faith as Paul is as the Father of faith to His children.
1Corinth 13:8 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Corinth 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
2Corinth 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as BY THE SPIRIT of the Lord.
2Corinth 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to SHINE OUT OF THE DARKNESS, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the FACE of Jesus Christ.
God bless
Seth3
If Scripture defines itself so well, then tell me why you posted such a tirade on preachers from the Scripture you took out of context comparing:
churches to doves' dung,
pastors and teachers to asses heads,
boiled babies to the teaching given to children in the churches.
Yep, Scripture defines itself--your way and no one elses. You are a gnostic.
DHK
I posted it for discussion, I know no one here except what I know of you.
I have not pursued and hunted you down to accept my thoughts as I see scripture showing and defining itself.
On the contrary, its your way or the highway. You have made that known.
If anything you have only PROVEN what these authors have written not discredited them.
Its your actions, words, deeds and hate they have seen in people placed in authority hurting Gods flock and demanding allegience to the hurtful ways.
You professed "soul liberty" but delight in binding people to your veiw, if not in control of knowledge others are excluded and counted as evil.
You call something gnostic (to which I have no idea what it is) neither have you taken the effort to show what this is in scripture nor define how the words of scriptures condemn whatever it is you accuse me of.
If Love is the goal of our faith and we really believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, how can you feel God would approve of how you treat others in the fashion you do? As the silent majority give approval to these actions... Sounds very familiar to me.
I understand now.
In Him
Seth3
I have not pursued and hunted you down to accept my thoughts as I see scripture showing and defining itself.
On the contrary, its your way or the highway. You have made that known.
If anything you have only PROVEN what these authors have written not discredited them.
Its your actions, words, deeds and hate they have seen in people placed in authority hurting Gods flock and demanding allegience to the hurtful ways.
You professed "soul liberty" but delight in binding people to your veiw, if not in control of knowledge others are excluded and counted as evil.
You call something gnostic (to which I have no idea what it is) neither have you taken the effort to show what this is in scripture nor define how the words of scriptures condemn whatever it is you accuse me of.
If Love is the goal of our faith and we really believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, how can you feel God would approve of how you treat others in the fashion you do? As the silent majority give approval to these actions... Sounds very familiar to me.
I understand now.
In Him
Seth3
Do you honestly believe that the interpretation that you posted is that which the Holy Spirit meant to give. Did God intend an attack against churches, preachers, and teachers, when he inspired the Scriptures at that time? Do you honestly think that is the meaning? Or have you even read the passage thoroughly for yourself? Do you know what actually happened? Do you know the historical background? Do you really know what happened in this story in the Bible. Could you relate it to your children without looking at the Bible?
DHK
DHK
When they take charge and toss His commands aside. scripture shows over and over again the leaders are accountable to God. How can anyone not bearing the fruit of the Holy Spirit be under the authority of Christ.
Just because you say His name does not mean you bear HIS FRUIT.
Seth3
Just because you say His name does not mean you bear HIS FRUIT.
Seth3