In Denunciation of Denials of the Future Bodily Resurrection of the Dead

[Yeshua1]

It's disturbing to me that there were not many people who voiced strong opposition when that viewpoint was expressed recently in other threads.

Strange that we cannot be vocal on one of the Fundamentals of the Faith as always held by the Historical Church!

 

[George Antonios]

Yes, it is sad indeed that the English word used to refer to our bodily redemption is mistranslated as "adoption" rather than reception of the full rights of being a child of God. There is a whole group of folks who want "adoption" to refer to our being born anew, to provide perverse support for being predestined to salvation. Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Well, yeah, but it is not "sad indeed" whatsoever. The Holy Spirit said adoption and if a man won't study to show himself approved unto God to understand from scriptures that adoption is not salvation of the soul but rather transformation of the body, then that's his problem.
The Bible is intentionally designed as a bear-trap for heretics:
1Co_11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

It's "sad indeed" that people parrot pseudo-scholars who belly-ache with their "unfortunate translation" mantra.

Do you not suppose that if God had used "reception" instead of "adoption" that today the word "reception" would have the same false connotation of salvation in the minds of our Calvinist brethren as "adoption" has today? It would have made no difference.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

We are now adopted children of the Father, due to us being born again, and indwelt and sealed by the Holy Spirit!

Absolutely right! Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7. It is sad indeed when some people pick one verse and bounce up and down on it like a trampoline to try to deny truths which are clearly stated just a few verses before.

 

[Van]

Absolutely right! Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7. It is sad indeed when some people pick one verse and bounce up and down on it like a trampoline to try to deny truths which are clearly stated just a few verses before.

Receiving the Spirit means God's pledge we will receive the full rights of sonship (being a born anew child of God) at Christ's second coming. Those that claim otherwise are bouncing on the trampoline of false doctrine supported by poor translation.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Receiving the Spirit means God's pledge we will receive the full rights of sonship (being a born anew child of God) at Christ's second coming. Those that claim otherwise are bouncing on the trampoline of false doctrine supported by poor translation.

Just read the verses, Van, and note the tenses. I won't disrupt the thread by saying more. If you want to understand, open a thread on the subject.

 

[George Antonios]

Absolutely right! Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7. It is sad indeed when some people pick one verse and bounce up and down on it like a trampoline to try to deny truths which are clearly stated just a few verses before.

We have received the Spirit of adoption but not yet the adoption.
The Spirit of adoption is an earnest (down-payment) (Eph.1:14) of the adoption of the body, which is yet to come in the future:
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits [down-payment] of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our BODY.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience WAIT for it.

I'm sorry brethren, but that the adoption of the body is a future reality, not a present one, is Bible basics taught in discipleship courses to new-born Christians.
Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

[George Antonios]

Receiving the Spirit means God's pledge we will receive the full rights of sonship (being a born anew child of God) at Christ's second coming. Those that claim otherwise are bouncing on the trampoline of false doctrine supported by poor translation.

Agreed, but it's not poor translation. That's an amateurish cop-out. It's poor Bible study and poor faith.
I understood that adoption is the future adoption of the body at the resurrection because of my King James Bible.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

We have received the Spirit of adoption but not yet the adoption.
The Spirit of adoption is an earnest (down-payment) (Eph.1:14) of the adoption of the body, which is yet to come in the future:
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits [down-payment] of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our BODY.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience WAIT for it.

I'm sorry brethren, but that the adoption of the body is a future reality, not a present one, is Bible basics taught in discipleship courses to new-born Christians.
Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

Apologies to @Scripture More Accurately for continuing to disrupting the thread.
Just read Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7 slowly and carefully, observing the tenses and you will see that we are the children of God right now.
The task of the Bible scholar is to reconcile these texts with Romans 8:23, not to ignore the ones we don't like, nor to set them in opposition to one another.
As I said to @Van, if you want to discuss it further, don't disrupt the thread; open another one.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Apologies to @Scripture More Accurately for continuing to disrupting the thread.
Just read Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7 slowly and carefully, observing the tenses and you will see that we are the children of God right now.
The task of the Bible scholar is to reconcile these texts with Romans 8:23, not to ignore the ones we don't like, nor to set them in opposition to one another.
As I said to @Van, if you want to discuss it further, don't disrupt the thread; open another one.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that we are all in agreement that there will be a future redemption of our physical bodies, right?

If anyone does not believe that is true, I would like to address that viewpoint and not continue discussion of what adoption does or does not mean in the various passages. Thanks.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that we are all in agreement that there will be a future redemption of our physical bodies, right?

If anyone does not believe that is true, I would like to address that viewpoint and not continue discussion of what adoption does or does not mean in the various passages. Thanks.

You are not wrong so far as I am concerned.
The simplest verse to refute Hyper-preterism, whether or not one is Dispensational, is Acts of the Apostles 1:11.
The Lord Jesus left the earth visibly; He will return visibly.
People saw Him depart; they will see Him return (Revelation 1:7). Who saw Him in AD 70?.
He left in a body that was 'flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39); He will return in the same body.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You are not wrong so far as I am concerned.
The simplest verse to refute Hyper-preterism, whether or not one is Dispensational, is Acts of the Apostles 1:11.
The Lord Jesus left the earth visibly; He will return visibly.
People saw Him depart; they will see Him return (Revelation 1:7). Who saw Him in AD 70?.
He left in a body that was 'flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39); He will return in the same body.

Yes, I believe that verse does refute those wrong views, and I have used it for that purpose in another thread.

 

[George Antonios]

and you will see that we are the children of God right now.

Of course we are the children of God right now; but that's in the spirit, not in the body yet.

 

[Yeshua1]

Receiving the Spirit means God's pledge we will receive the full rights of sonship (being a born anew child of God) at Christ's second coming. Those that claim otherwise are bouncing on the trampoline of false doctrine supported by poor translation.

We have all spiritual blessings in Christ right now, but we still await the glorification of the physical resurrected body!

 

[Yeshua1]

We have received the Spirit of adoption but not yet the adoption.
The Spirit of adoption is an earnest (down-payment) (Eph.1:14) of the adoption of the body, which is yet to come in the future:
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits [down-payment] of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, WAITING for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our BODY.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience WAIT for it.

I'm sorry brethren, but that the adoption of the body is a future reality, not a present one, is Bible basics taught in discipleship courses to new-born Christians.
Heb_5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

We are children of the father, adopted as one of His own when we first believed!

 

[Yeshua1]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that we are all in agreement that there will be a future redemption of our physical bodies, right?

If anyone does not believe that is true, I would like to address that viewpoint and not continue discussion of what adoption does or does not mean in the various passages. Thanks.

Some do not see that we will have a physical resurrection, but a spiritual one instead!

 

[George Antonios]

We are children of the father, adopted as one of His own when we first believed!

You just ignored the exposition in the post and repeated what you know is so.
We were born again when we first believed.
That is, a new spiritual nature was birthed in us when we first believed.
We became spiritual sons of God when we first believed.
But adoption has to do with the body.
Nothing changed about our bodies when we first believed.

 

[Van]

Just read the verses, Van, and note the tenses. I won't disrupt the thread by saying more. If you want to understand, open a thread on the subject.

Once again the one trick ponies claim my understanding is lacking, rather than present their non-existent argument to refute the plain language of Romans 8:23.

 

[Van]

Agreed, but it's not poor translation. That's an amateurish cop-out. It's poor Bible study and poor faith.
I understood that adoption is the future adoption of the body at the resurrection because of my King James Bible.

We know what scripture says, we just disagree as to the best way to translate it.

 

[Van]

Apologies to @Scripture More Accurately for continuing to disrupting the thread.
Just read Romans 8:15-17; Galatians 4:5-7 slowly and carefully, observing the tenses and you will see that we are the children of God right now.
The task of the Bible scholar is to reconcile these texts with Romans 8:23, not to ignore the ones we don't like, nor to set them in opposition to one another.
As I said to @Van, if you want to discuss it further, don't disrupt the thread; open another one.

LOL, all three verses say exactly the same thing, that our reception of the full benefits of being a child of God will occur at Christ's second coming.

 

[Van]

We have all spiritual blessings in Christ right now, but we still await the glorification of the physical resurrected body!

Yes, we have been born anew, becoming a spiritual child of God, and we will receive the full benefits of our "sonship" at Christ's second coming. Any other claim is simply false unbiblical doctrine.