In My Flesh Dwelleth No Good Thing

[tyndale1946]

As long as I have been on the BB there have been discussion about our free will... Does the child Of God have a free will to exercise it?... If he does then how do we explain the Apostle Paul's declaration in Romans?... Paul said he delighted in the law of God after the inward man but he also said the inward man was in constant warfare with the law of sin and he was in servitude to both... Where is the free will if Paul states he was in captivity and if in captivity is he free?... Why does he call it a body of death?

In the Philippian church Paul is telling the church to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for God works in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... So how does God work in his children the will and the to do according to his pleasure?... Since I don't know and God does, the answer in both cases must be prayer... Comments?... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[Yeshua1]

As long as I have been on the BB there have been discussion about our free will... Does the child Of God have a free will to exercise it?... If he does then how do we explain the Apostle Paul's declaration in Romans?... Paul said he delighted in the law of God after the inward man but he also said the inward man was in constant warfare with the law of sin and he was in servitude to both... Where is the free will if Paul states he was in captivity and if in captivity is he free?... Why does he call it a body of death?

In the Philippian church Paul is telling the church to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for God works in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... So how does God work in his children the will and the to do according to his pleasure?... Since I don't know and God does, the answer must be prayer... Comments?... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Before being saved, all were captive to the bondage of the flesh, once saved, we now have the new nature and the Holy Spirit to enable us to do the right thing.
Only God has absolute free will to exercise, as he alone is the being that no one else can influence/move to do something other than what he desires to do!

 

[Revmitchell]

Where is the free will if Paul states he was in captivity and if in captivity is he free?... Why does he call it a body of death?

The free will is right there where it has always been. regardless of the captivity the gospel is the power unto salvation. Faith is provided by hearing God's word (the gospel) which overcomes our sin.

 

[percho]

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; From Heb 2:6,7 Ps 8:4,5 Forasmuch then as the children (Of man, Adam) are partakers of flesh and blood, From Heb 2:14

Gen 2:7,8 And the LORD God formed man (Adam) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Is that man (Adam) of Gen 2:7 made of the flesh, Carnal? Is he, Adam, man, made in the image of his Creator, the pinnacle, of the creation of Genesis 1?

Is that carnal man given a spiritual law? Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Before the before mentioned creation, had it already been foreordained by God that the Christ as of a lamb without spot and without blemish would shed his precious blood for redemption? 1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Did that spiritual law given Adam, sell him under sin? Was his redemption already foreordained?

Romans 8:20 NKJV For the creation (Including and especially the pinnacle, man, of the flesh ) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

Talk to me about the free will of Adam.

Is the hope of that verse the redemption of 1 Peter 1? Redeemed from what? Death of what? Is that hope and redemption relative to the redemption spoken of in the following verse? Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Is eternal live relative to the body of flesh? Apart from blood?

 

[glad4mercy]

As long as I have been on the BB there have been discussion about our free will... Does the child Of God have a free will to exercise it?... If he does then how do we explain the Apostle Paul's declaration in Romans?... Paul said he delighted in the law of God after the inward man but he also said the inward man was in constant warfare with the law of sin and he was in servitude to both... Where is the free will if Paul states he was in captivity and if in captivity is he free?... Why does he call it a body of death?

In the Philippian church Paul is telling the church to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for God works in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... So how does God work in his children the will and the to do according to his pleasure?... Since I don't know and God does, the answer in both cases must be prayer... Comments?... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

The freedom to will (want to do something) and the freedom to do are two different things (Romans 7:18). Paul had a desire to keep the Law of God, but was unable to do so in the power of the flesh.(Romans 7:19) This inability drove Him to Christ, who delivered him from the body of death.(Romans 7:24 cf) As it is written, "the Law is a tutor to bring us to Christ" (Galatians 3:24) and again Christ is the end of the Law (Romans 10:4), that is, the purpose or goal of the Law is to bring one to Christ.

God gives us both the will (want to do) and the ability (can do ) to do His Good Pleasure.

How does God work in us to will and to do of His Good Pleasure? By the Spirit (see Zechariah 4). What is our part? Be filled with the Spirit. (Ephesians 5:18) which also involves being LED (Romans 8:14) and controlled by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:24) See also Luke 11:13

 

[Dave G]

More old threads:

The free will is right there where it has always been. regardless of the captivity the gospel is the power unto salvation. Faith is provided by hearing God's word (the gospel) which overcomes our sin.

I can see how you get there but I disagree:

" So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." ( Romans 10:17 )

Since "cometh" is in italics, then when read without them the verse would look like this:

" So then faith [] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Here I clearly see that faith is "by" something. I imagine you believe the word "hearing" to mean physical hearing, which leaves the deaf out of the Gospel entirely. If spiritual "hearing", then faith could come by means other than the audible hearing of God's word.

We differ on two terms, not one.

1) the word "by", as in, "identifying the agent performing an action."
Faith is "by", or "because of" in our vernacular, 21st century American English, "hearing" .

2) The word "hearing"...is it physical, spiritual, or both?
If spiritual, then "hearing" is by the word of God.


In "Calvinism" ( what I now believe that the Bible teaches ), a person "hears" the Gospel ( the inward "call" of the Holy Spirit ) and believes it from an already changed heart. They are then indwelt with the Holy Ghost and swiftly granted the repentance that goes along with the gift of eternal life. This "point of calling" only comes once ( "Now is the Day of Salvation" ) in a person's life.

In "Traditionalism" ( which I grew up with and know intimately down to probably the last detail of how and why it is believed ), a person hears the Gospel ( the outward call, which shifts man's negative, rebellious state into "free neutral moral agent" mode, also called "Prevenient Grace" ) and then goes through a process that may take 1 second or 1 decade to make a decision either for or against Christ as Saviour. Usually this "process" supposedly takes around 1 second to 1-2 weeks ( like it did for Billy Graham, ref. his book, "Just As I Am ), depending on how pressured the person feels during the "invitation" ( some say invented by Charles Finney and that does not exist in Scripture ).

After agreeing to believe, they then are granted both the new nature, the Holy Ghost comes to indwell them and repentance settles into their conscience....the gift of eternal life is, in reality, dependent upon the person's decision, which makes the gift into a reward for making the correct choice; While making the incorrect choice can be rectified at any point in a person's life, and if a person "doesn't get it right", they can hear the Gospel all over again until they do ( "Now is the Day of Salvation" becomes perpetual until death ).




Unfortunately, if "hearing" means physical hearing, then no one who is deaf will be saved...period.
If spiritual, then all walks of life and manner of persons can "hear" the Gospel and believe.
All it takes is God's timing and His word.


Finally, God's word overcomes our sin?
Please clarify where you see this, sir. I can't seem to remember anything in my reading that states this verbatim, but I'm also not saying this isn't in Scripture.

I know for a fact that God can withhold a person from sinning against Him:

" And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her." ( Genesis 20:6 )

So He does overcome sin in a person.


May God bless you greatly.

 

[jeremiah1five]

As long as I have been on the BB there have been discussion about our free will... Does the child Of God have a free will to exercise it?... If he does then how do we explain the Apostle Paul's declaration in Romans?... Paul said he delighted in the law of God after the inward man but he also said the inward man was in constant warfare with the law of sin and he was in servitude to both... Where is the free will if Paul states he was in captivity and if in captivity is he free?... Why does he call it a body of death?

In the Philippian church Paul is telling the church to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for God works in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... So how does God work in his children the will and the to do according to his pleasure?... Since I don't know and God does, the answer in both cases must be prayer... Comments?... Brother Glen

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

QUOTE: "In the Philippian church Paul is telling the church to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for God works in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... So how does God work in his children the will and the to do according to his pleasure?... Since I don't know and God does, the answer in both cases must be prayer... Comments?
RESPONSE: God does it through the Scripture, or according to His Word. God does it through the Holy Spirit applying the Word to the believer in order to grow that believer.
Prayer is us speaking to God, so this is not the way God does it. The Scripture is God speaking to us. And this is the way God does it.
His Word.