In the beginning God created Evil

[JustChristian]

I cannot clarify, because I don't understand it. I believe it though. God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass, and he has done so for his own good pleasure. Somehow, this chaotic existence we have down here, including the rape, pedophilia, war, and disease, is in God's plan. That plan was drawn up by God, so he can recieve glory.

Ray Stedman, president of Dallas Theological Seminary, used to say ,'one of the problems with you young theologians is you are always trying to unscrew the inscrutable'. This quote should be applied to this issue. For us to say, "God did this wrong" or "God must be evil" is tantamount to the pot saying to the potter ,'Why have you made me thus?'. It is foolish, and in Isaiah it says 'Woe unto you who question the creator'

I like the quote but unless there were two prominent theologians named Ray Stedman you've got your facts wrong. The Ray Stedman I knew graduated from the Dallas Seminary but never was President. He was Pastor of the Peninsula Bible Church in Palo Alto CA for 40 years and had great insight into the scriptures. I attended his church in the mid-70's when I lived out there. I believe his Bible commentary is still on blueletterbible.com.

Ray C. Stedman
http://www.joyofliving.org/html/authors.html#ray

Ray Stedman is the author of the commentary portions of Psalms of Faith and Psalms from the Heart, both taken from the book Psalms of Faith (Regal, out of print); Nehemiah and Job, each based on a series of his sermons; Mark (Part 1), from the book The Servant Who Rules (Discovery House); and Revelation, from the book God’s Final Word: Understanding Revelation (Discovery House).

He was a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary and a highly respected Bible expositor. While still in seminary, Ray served two summers in youth ministry at the Church of the Open Door in Los Angeles, pastored by Dr. J. Vernon McGee. Immediately following graduation from seminary, Ray traveled with the well known Bible teacher, Dr. Harry A. Ironside, who for many years was pastor of Moody Bible Church in Chicago. Ray, his wife Elaine and their family then moved to Palo Alto, California, where Ray served 40 years as pastor of the Peninsula Bible Church, before retiring in 1990.

Ray and Elaine were blessed with 4 daughters and eventually 11 grandchildren. Ray went home to be with the Lord in October 1992.

 

[Greatest I am]

Actually, I would have to say that God does NOT make logical sense. How can He to mere humans whose understanding is so inferior to His. The bible tells us that His ways are not our ways. This is just my own belief but my belief is that many of the things we question or argue about will never be answered until we go HOME to be with our Lord. I put the question of why is there evil in the world in that category. A very interesting question but unanswerable on this side of the grave.

The Bible is the best road map to God.
Jesus the best guide.
If we cannot understand the Bible then how can we be guided by it.
To suggest as you do that God does not make sence I will ignore as stupid and learn what God has to say. He made the Law understandable or it is not law.
Understanding just takes effort and flexibility.

Regards
DL

 

[SBCPreacher]

The Bible is the best road map to God.
Jesus the best guide.
If we cannot understand the Bible then how can we be guided by it.

Jesus is not the best guide - He is the only way to the Father (John 14:6). Do you know of another way?

It seems to me that, by reading many of your posts, that you are trying to cast doubt on the reliability of the Bible. Is that your point?

 

[JustChristian]

The Bible is the best road map to God.
Jesus the best guide.
If we cannot understand the Bible then how can we be guided by it.
To suggest as you do that God does not make sence I will ignore as stupid and learn what God has to say. He made the Law understandable or it is not law.
Understanding just takes effort and flexibility.

Regards
DL

So you're claiming that everything that you understand God does? We differ on that point. I don't think you or anyone else understand all of God's ways. It says that in the Bible. Check it out and "understand."

 

[DQuixote]

You'll never understand it mentally, GIAM.

Check out 1 Corinthians 2:1-16.

Instead of questioning God intellectually, get into His Word spiritually. For that, you need lots of time in prayer, surrender, humbleness.

 

[JustChristian]

So you're claiming that everything that you understand God does? We differ on that point. I don't think you or anyone else understand all of God's ways. It says that in the Bible. Check it out and "understand."

Somehow this didn't come out right. I was saying that we can't understand everything about God.

 

[Gofwd]

IMHO someone hit the nail on the head by saying God is power and justice.
Does God does something 'just' (as in justice) because it is the right thing to do or is everything God does 'just' because he is God? If the former then who decides? Surely not me.
So if you can accept that everything God does is 'just', then you can answer your question by saying that it was more 'just' to allow man to fall and evil to enter the world than to kill Satan.
Why that is more just we cannot answer -- for now. But perhaps soon...

I think it is good to seek God both intellectually and spiritually. Intellect can strengthen faith, but can never replace it.

 

[Greatest I am]

Actually, I would have to say that God does NOT make logical sense. How can He to mere humans whose understanding is so inferior to His. The bible tells us that His ways are not our ways. This is just my own belief but my belief is that many of the things we question or argue about will never be answered until we go HOME to be with our Lord. I put the question of why is there evil in the world in that category. A very interesting question but unanswerable on this side of the grave.

If you cannot understand God then you cannot know in what direction to follow.
I will pray for you. But I have spoken once with God and have some understanding of His Perfect systems. Here is where we are to learn, not after death. The dead know nothing according to the Bible. Wait for enlightenment at your own peril.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Jesus is not the best guide - He is the only way to the Father (John 14:6). Do you know of another way?

It seems to me that, by reading many of your posts, that you are trying to cast doubt on the reliability of the Bible. Is that your point?

The Bible is the greatest book that we have.
Understanding it will lead us to God.
I would need you to define reliable.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

So you're claiming that everything that you understand God does?

GIA wrote
I don't understand what you mean here.


We differ on that point. I don't think you or anyone else understand all of God's ways. It says that in the Bible. Check it out and "understand."

What of His ways do you not understand, perhaps some here can help you.
Lack of understanding on your part just means you have yet to be informed.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You'll never understand it mentally, GIAM.

Check out 1 Corinthians 2:1-16.

Instead of questioning God intellectually, get into His Word spiritually. For that, you need lots of time in prayer, surrender, humbleness.

I have almost none of these attributes and it is not lack of these that prevented God from allowing my one contact with the Godhead when "saved".

A fierce determination to know God is what is required.
Sitting back and saying He is not logical and cannot be understood just shows laziness of character.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Somehow this didn't come out right. I was saying that we can't understand everything about God.

Hogwash.
God is a set of Laws. How can you follow a law that cannot be understood.



Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

IMHO someone hit the nail on the head by saying God is power and justice.
Does God does something 'just' (as in justice) because it is the right thing to do or is everything God does 'just' because he is God? If the former then who decides? Surely not me.
So if you can accept that everything God does is 'just', then you can answer your question by saying that it was more 'just' to allow man to fall and evil to enter the world than to kill Satan.
Why that is more just we cannot answer -- for now. But perhaps soon...

I think it is good to seek God both intellectually and spiritually. Intellect can strengthen faith, but can never replace it.

Evil did not enter the world voluntarily, Satan was cast down to us by God.
Why, does man need evil to do the will of God. Was Eve doing the will of God when she ate of it.? The answer seems to be yes. Then man did not fall from the Garden of Eden, man jumped joyfully forward doing the will of God.
Glory to Eve for the right choice.

Regards
DL

 

[npetreley]

God is a set of Laws.

(smiley with eyes popping and mouth wide open)

 

[DQuixote]

Wow. I don't say this to be offensive, but I wouldn't want to be your mentor, GIAM. I've got a BUNCH of books you can read, though. You can probably get them locally or thru Amazon.com. After about 6 months with them I think you'll clear away some of the fog that's getting in the way of your walk with Christ.

Hang in there........ :wavey:

 

[Greatest I am]

Wow. I don't say this to be offensive, but I wouldn't want to be your mentor, GIAM. I've got a BUNCH of books you can read, though. You can probably get them locally or thru Amazon.com. After about 6 months with them I think you'll clear away some of the fog that's getting in the way of your walk with Christ.

Hang in there........ :wavey:

A few seconds with God is worth much more than many years of following the wrong path.
Look at what all the books have done to fracture Christianity. More denominations than you can throw a stick at.
I go where God takes me but thanks for the offer.

Regards
DL

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Hogwash.
God is a set of Laws. How can you follow a law that cannot be understood.



Regards
DL

Where did you get that?

God is love, God is light.

 

[Greatest I am]

Where did you get that?

God is love, God is light.

And how do you advise someone else on following God.

Follow that light. follow that love.

These words would be as meaningless as follow Jesus.

None of these entities are available to follow.
Only their words are left.
The sum of their words equals a philosophy.
This philosophy is what we all follow.
This is all we can follow that is why God's philosophy has to be logical.
It must compete with all the other philosophies out there so it had better hold it's own logically.

Regards
DL

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

And how do you advise someone else on following God.

Follow that light. follow that love.

These words would be as meaningless as follow Jesus.

None of these entities are available to follow.
Only their words are left.
The sum of their words equals a philosophy.
This philosophy is what we all follow.
This is all we can follow that is why God's philosophy has to be logical.
It must compete with all the other philosophies out there so it had better hold it's own logically.

Regards
DL

You persist in trying to squeeze God into your limited and finite human understanding. God is perfectly logical - He is the essence of logic and He reveals that logic in His perfect written word. You seem to prefer man's flawed humanistic logic to God's perfect logic.

The logical choice is to by faith accept His perfect logic and let God out of the little box that humanists try to create.

How does one follow the Light? How does one follow the Love? How does one follow Jesus? They put their faith in the one perfect logos instead of the corrupt human sorry excuse for logic.

You have warned several here of the danger of not understanding God as you define Him.

I am compelled to warn those who try to box God into their puny human reasoning - you do so at your own peril. God is so much more than you are allowing Him to be.

God, as revealed in His word makes perfect sense and it totally logical to those who will realise that only His logic is really logical and He reveals that logic in the living and the written logos.

 

[Greatest I am]

You persist in trying to squeeze God into your limited and finite human understanding. God is perfectly logical - He is the essence of logic and He reveals that logic in His perfect written word. You seem to prefer man's flawed humanistic logic to God's perfect logic.

The logical choice is to by faith accept His perfect logic and let God out of the little box that humanists try to create.

How does one follow the Light? How does one follow the Love? How does one follow Jesus? Their put their faith in the one perfect logos instead of the corrupt human sorry excuse for logic.

You have warned several here of the danger of not understanding God as you define Him.

I am compelled to warn those who try to box God into their puny human reasoning - you do so at your own peril. God is so much more than you are allowing Him to be.

God, as revealed in His word makes perfect sense and it totally logical to those who will realise that only His logic is really logical and He reveals that logic in the living and the written logos.

Hogwash.
A neophyte would get absolutely nothing from anything you say.
I get even less.

Regards
DL