You cannot apply a Modern English definition to an Original Greek word.
Double standard. You wrote elsewhere that "helkuo" (e.g drag or draw in Greek)in John 6:44 should be defined as "entice" or "persuade," not "drag" or "draw."
The lexical reading from the Louws, BDAG, et.al. is to determine beforehand, to predetermine, pre-ordain.
Predestination is not a guarantee of Salvation because it is conditional upon faith.
No, *justification* is conditional on faith. To say this, since justification is by faith, you would have to say what is being foreknown and predestined by God is faith, but the text never, ever says this.
In Romans 8:30, calling and justifying follow along as aorist tense, indicative mood, active voice as a result of having been foreknown and predestined, because there is a grammatical construction that involves a calling being a result of being predestined, and being justified is a direct result of calling. Predestination is thus one of the causes of being justified, not the other way around. This is the syntactical construction of the text. In short, "these he justified" is in aorist indicative active in a causal structure and part of a dependent clause of a conditional sentence (protasis). This means, justification depends on calling. Calling depends on predestination. Predestination depends of foreknowing. Faith is never mentioned as a condition. "These" is mentioned, and "these" are people. Thus justification of people is dependent not on foreknown faith, but the person doing the foreknowing and predestining. Calling proceeds from the cause of predestination, and then justification IN THAT ORDER, because of the order and dependent relationship of each clause. therefore predestination can not be conditional on faith. Justification is by faith, and comes as a result of calling, paralleling John 6 exactly.
It does not say this;
Rom. 8:29. All those who are predestined will be glorified.
Read 8:30. and these whom He predestined (the same ones referred to in 8:29), He also called and these whom He called, He also justified, and these whom He justified, He also glorified. Predestination PRECEDES justification, not vice versa. Your version is "postdestination." See above for the Greek syntax. Justification *depends on* calling and calling *depends on* predestination.
Read John 6 again.
6:37 Action: Given by Father Result: All come to Christ
6:39 Action: Given by Father Result: None lost, all raised up
6:44 Action: Drawn by the Father Result: Come to Christ, raised up
6:45 Action: Hear from and Taught by Father: Result: Come to Christ
Notice the relationships. The ones that come do so because they are given by God to Christ and drawn by the Father to Him. All that are given will not ever be lost, none of them, and all of them will be raised up. All that come to Christ will be raised up, and all that are taught by the Father come to Christ.
Now, if this is only general, then why do some *not* come to Christ and believe, when the text clearly says that EVERYONE who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me, and in the previous text, we clearly find Jesus saying that all that come to Him *will* believe and *will* be raised on the Last Day? If election works the way you have it working, then Jesus is mistaken here, because there are plenty of people that hear and learn the gospel and do not believe and are not raised up. He clearly says that ALL that come WILL believe and ALL of them WILL be raised up and NONE of them will be lost.
Things are planned this way for everyone because God foreknew everyone because He created everyone.
No, the text does not say that...there is a list of dependent clauses that refer to "these." Who are the ones foreknown?...Verse 28, those that love God. Verse 33, "God's elect" Who are they?...they are those that are justified. All persons everywhere *cannot* be in view here, because that would mean universalism is true. All persons everywhere are not justified and glorified in a list of dependent aorist indicative active clauses. The persons here have one thing in common: justification. ONLY Christians are here, not all persons everywhere. The ones foreknown..predestined...called...and justified...and subsequently glorified are all Christians and only Christians, e.g. only saved people. Orthodox Christianity denies universalism. These people are *not* predestined contingent on faith, again because this is contrary to the construction of the text.
We have to remember that they weren't Gentiles only there most likely there were Jews also.
This isn't what the text says, though, Mike. The text refers to Gentiles here, NOT Jews. If Jews were present, so what? This text is about why these Gentiles believed.
The Gentiles were Glad because Salvation had come to the Gentiles as a whole and that meant they could be saved as well.
Of course the text does not in any way say this. There is also a *much* bigger problem. The problem here with your exegesis is that the construction is a pluperfect, so that the action of the construction PRECEDED the act of believing and was the cause of it. Your interpretation would have the Gentiles being appointed as a result of something other than being appointed (ordained) to eternal life, by inference, because they were glad at this news, they were saved. However, the text does not say that. It says they were glad and believed, because they were appointed. This is the function of the pluperfect construction.
They were all saved because they have all been planed for and appointed to eternal life. This is not individual at all.
Why? How can you separate the individuals from the group? Also, it does not say they were *all* saved, it says as many as were appointed to eternal life were saved. The "many" that believed are not all Gentiles everywhere. This text is specific to the many Gentiles that day that believed. The pluperfect construction means that they believed because they were appointed/ordained to do so.
All your arguments so far is just your disagreement with the text. The word Gentiles, are who was glad.
"Many" in the next clause delimits which of those Gentiles believed. Why? Because they, each and every single one, were ordained to eternal life.
This is plural and yet you still claim it is individual. It's just remarkable you can't see it.
Once again, I will point you to Romans 3: 19 - 18. All of those terms are ALSO plural. Now, if we apply your logic here, Mike, you have to say that all of them as a group, without all of them individually in the group, turn their own way, fail to seek God, turn aside, etc. You *cannot* separate the individuals from the group in a causal construction.
The whole is not greater than the sum of the parts. A group in which "many" are ordained to eternal life can not be so ordained without them also being ordained as individuals.
