Individual Election

[Ray Berrian]

ILUVLIGHT,

Most Calvinists find Mr. Hunt very offensive because he takes them head on. He uses their own writers to point back to the fact that Calvinism has it basis having come out of the bowels of the Roman Catholic Church back in the 300's via their scholar, the sainted Augustine. {354-430 A.D.}

John Calvin coming out of the spiritual darkness of their system, only poluted the waters of the new Protestantism. And even today the darkness continues to shroud the verile truths of Christ.

 

[Wes Outwest]

AMEN BROTHER BERRIAN!

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Ray;

He uses their own writers to point back to the fact that Calvinism has it basis having come out of the bowels of the Roman Catholic Church

I've read some of Dave Hunts books as well and you're right about where the basis of Calvinism comes from. Bowels seems most appropriate.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

[rc]

The Blind following the blind....

Dave Hunt HAS NEVER even studied church history or the reformers.. he has admitted that in his debates... so how can he make statements about things he hasn't studied and HOW can you follow him?... And I know him from my being a assistant pastor from a calvary chapel..

To say that Augustine was apart of the RCC is shear ingnorance of history which shows you are just like your guru that you follow, never knowing it...


2 Timothy 4:2-4 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[rc]

Ray,

Your showing hypocrasy when you say you won't LISTEN TO the words of man but yet you CLING to a man's comments about something that he hasn't even studied !

Why not adhere to the comments of eight year olds on astro physics? ...

 

[Wes Outwest]

To say that Augustine was apart of the RCC is shear ingnorance of history which shows you are just like your guru that you follow, never knowing it...

Are those your exact words Ray? or did you say the to wit, "the principle or teaching, is out of the bowels of the RCC"

 

[Ray Berrian]

Brethren,

I have before me a text that is falling apart written by A.A. Hodge, D.D. back in 1883 called, “Outlines of Theology” Thomas Nelson and Sons, Edinburgh; and New York. On page 16 the author says, quote, ‘The point of view adopted in this book is the evangelical and specifically the Calvinistic or Augustinian one, assuming the following fundamental principles.’ [/quote]

On page 100 Hodge says, quote, ‘Luther, a monk of the order of Augustine, and an earnest disciple of that father, taught a system of faith agreeing in spirit and in all essential points with that afterwards more systematically developed by Calvin.

If you do not believe me, send me your address and I will make you a photo static copy of both pages. Please, tell me what makes it right for Dr. Hodge to put this in print in his Calvinistic text, “Outlines of Theology” but it is a lie if Mr. Hunt writes it in his text, “What Love Is This?”

I may be wrong because I do not often study from Calvinistic texts, but I think Drs. Hodge and B.B Warfield were from Princeton Theological Seminary. When I was a young pastor, a brother, pastor in faith gave me his entire library except for a few of his favorite books.

Again, it is a fact that Augustinianism and Calvinism have a link together though separated by centuries.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Ray;
It is well known that Augustine is the author of the Catholic Faith. I think RC is confused. He doesn't know why the Catholic Church honors him with Saint Hood for his contributions. He doesn't understand that the reformers were originally Catholics and what they reformed was the original Catholicism and since Calvin worked so hard on it they named it after him. John Calvin himself was very much Catholic he even stated that there is no Salvation apart from the Catholic Church. This statement can be viewed in His Institutes of Christianity. Here you have a guy that is sure he knows what he is talking about but saddly doesn't.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[GeneMBridges]

Of course, what you guys all gloss over is that Arminianism is the Protestant version of Catholic soteriology. YOUR soteriology is Catholic.

 

[Ray Berrian]

ILUVLIGHT,

You had an insightful post on the 23rd. of December, the one with the smiley face.

Gene, should know that Calvinism has come out of early Catholicism as you said.

Gene, though trying to evade your truth, is also right that many evangelical non-Catholic Christians agree with the evolved Catholic view and we together admit that the real truth is that Jesus died for all human sinners. [Hebrews 2:9 & II Peter 3:9 & I John 2:2] Many evangelical church along with priests believe that our Lord’s love reaches to all and the worst of sinners. We are moving closer to the Light, while some still prefer to sit in the spiritual
gloominess of the Dark Ages.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Gene;
I hope you had a great Christmas.

Of course, what you guys all gloss over is that Arminianism is the Protestant version of Catholic soteriology. YOUR soteriology is Catholic.

Actually Gene I'm not Arminian.
1. I don't believe man is totally depraved and unable to respond
2.I believe that election is unconditional just not in the same sense as Calvinist.
3. I believe that Christ died for every man woman and child in the whole world.
4. God's grace is very resistible because the God I worship doesn't have to force Him self on anyone.
5 Just as I believe man has a freewill in accepting Christ as Savior I also believe that if you change your mind before you die. God will not force you to be saved. At least God realizes that true Love cannot be forced.

As far as Catholicism. Catholics believe Mary to be another advocate or co-remdemptress. They believe there is no Salvation apart from the church. They believe in the Eucharist being the real flesh and blood of Christ. They call there Pope Holy Father. The priest are Vicars or Christ representatives.

Well when you get down to it there is nothing Catholic in my beliefs at all. I didn't come out of the Catholic Church nor did anyone who believes like me.

Calvinist came from there. The Arminians came out of the false doctrines of Calvinism. They didn't reform it Calvinist did that. Just like Dave Hunt said in one of his books. Calvinism is just warmed over Catholicism. Catholicism is where you're roots are my friend. You even call your selves reformers.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike