Indwelling/ upon Holy Spirit

[DHK]

I am sorry, did I miss a scriptue in that verse????
How do I give a decent refutal to a post that is pitiful and only leads people to concentrate on the false rather than the Word of God! My faith comes from what He says...not on fake and false out there!

OK, you admit you can't refute my post.
I will repeat the ecumenical movement is of satan.
The ecumenical movement is using the Charismatic movement to push its agenda and one day it will end up being the one world church of the anti-Christ.
That is why we are given such stern warnings in Scripture as:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

 

[Yeshua1]

Again...I notice before the disciples at Ephesus were baptized in the Holy Spirit, the apostle Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed in Jesus:

"While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"" They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?" "John's baptism," they replied. Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." (Acts 19:1-6)

Remember, Paul taught that we are automatically sealed with the Holy Spirit when we believe. Yet in the above passage Paul asked these disciples if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed. He wasn't asking if they had been sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit at salvation because it was Paul himself who taught that everyone is automatically sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe. Paul was asking these disciples something else.

He was asking if they had received the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit yet. This baptism is a second experience of the Holy Spirit which we can receive after we become saved.

Since Paul asked this question, it shows that it is possible to be saved without receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise there would have been no need for Paul to ask this question! Paul assumed that they were Christians (which would have meant that they had automatically been sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit), and he simply asked if they had received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the time of their salvation. Their reply demonstrated their lack of knowledge (they were probably not yet saved), so Paul explained to them about Jesus, then he baptized them in water, and then he laid hands on them and they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Here's another point to consider. If we have received salvation, how do we know that we have received the indwelling Holy Spirit? The answer is that we take it on faith that the Holy Spirit now lives in our hearts because the Bible says so. Yet Paul asked these disciples if they had received the Holy Spirit. Think about that for a moment. The Holy Spirit is invisible, so how would they know if they had received the Holy Spirit? There are always supernatural manifestations which accompany the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. There are no exceptions to this. That's how these disciples would have known if they had been baptized with the Holy Spirit, because they would have experienced some supernatural manifestations. Notice that when Paul laid hands on them and they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, they immediately began speaking in tongues and prophesying. At that point they knew that they had been baptized with the Holy Spirit! Notice that this happened after they had received salvation.

These examples provide further confirmation that the baptism of the Holy Spirit does not refer to being sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation. Instead, it refers to a separate event after salvation which is for empowering a Christian to function supernaturally in the body of Christ.

again , the "baptism of the HS" here wouuld have been him placing them into the body of Chrsit, by them receiving thru faith the truth of jesus Christ!

they would have known what John said of the One promised to come, paul would have adressed to them that jesus was that one who did come, and they would have had "believers baptism", and the HS would have worked on them as at pentacost, to confirm that jesus was the messiah!

Again, you keep picking out verses/passages that show what the HS actually did during the transistory period, not what he would be doing going forward as the norm!

 

[awaken]

OK, you admit you can't refute my post.

WHo is lying now?

I will repeat the ecumenical movement is of satan.
The ecumenical movement is using the Charismatic movement to push its agenda and one day it will end up being the one world church of the anti-Christ.
That is why we are given such stern warnings in Scripture as:

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

Your assumption was ridiculously stated! That the charismatic will bring in the one world church of the antichrist! How can an ANTI christ be part of a church that believes in Christ?

I gave you an example to show how ridiculous your reply was! I was taught the same thing about the catholic church!

Now to get back on topic...since the moderater can not seem to stay on topic...We are suppose to be discussing the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon....Do you have anything that you can add to that discussion??

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, I believe in a universal spiritual church! We are all ONE!
Yes, we have local churches! But when it comes to salvation we are all born of one Spirit, We all have the same Lord, We as born again believer have One faith and it is only One baptism that puts into the body of Christ! ..and that is not water baptism!

I also hold to a Universal church, but do NOT hold to your view, for though ALL have partaked of the SAME Holy sparit when saved, we still are commanded to get water, NOT spirit baptized, for How can God ask us to receive again what was already done at salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

WHo is lying now?

Your assumption was ridiculously stated! That the charismatic will bring in the one world church of the antichrist! How can an ANTI christ be part of a church that believes in Christ?

I gave you an example to show how ridiculous your reply was! I was taught the same thing about the catholic church!

Now to get back on topic...since the moderater can not seem to stay on topic...We are suppose to be discussing the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon....Do you have anything that you can add to that discussion??

Do you think the HS would be involved in a Movement that has among its chief teachers those who espouse heresies, who have damnable doctrines of demons?

Would jesus REALLY be in getting united the Church of Rome with its false gospel, and word of faith heretics, and prosperity gurus with those who do really epouse real biblical thinking as you say the Charasmatic move does?

 

[awaken]

again , the "baptism of the HS" here wouuld have been him placing them into the body of Chrsit, by them receiving thru faith the truth of jesus Christ!

they would have known what John said of the One promised to come, paul would have adressed to them that jesus was that one who did come, and they would have had "believers baptism", and the HS would have worked on them as at pentacost, to confirm that jesus was the messiah!

Again, you keep picking out verses/passages that show what the HS actually did during the transistory period, not what he would be doing going forward as the norm!

Sorry, but that is suppose to be the norm! We as the church have got way off track! God is bringing us back to what He intended us to be all along! But just like the generation in the wilderness...the unbelieving generation will have to die off first! He is raising up a generation that will believe His Word! I will be a Caleb and a Joshua....I believed his word when HE said it the first time! I will not believe the report of the unbelieving spys! Or in today's language the ones that have see God working now before he believes he can work at all!

NOw back on topic...is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, but that is suppose to be the norm! We as the church have got way off track! God is bringing us back to what He intended us to be all along! But just like the generation in the wilderness...the unbelieving generation will have to die off first! He is raising up a generation that will believe His Word! I will be a Caleb and a Joshua....I believed his word when HE said it the first time! I will not believe the report of the unbelieving spys! Or in today's language the ones that have see God working now before he believes he can work at all!

NOw back on topic...is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

What terminology is used by God in the Epistles? those WERE the letters that taught what would be acceptable unto the church going forward, so did paul/John?peter etc mention to the believer to seek that further baptism or not? To look to have the HS fall upon them or not?

Think you will see there are indeed 2 classes of saints...

NOT th way yuo define it, as those having the holy spirit, and those having the 'fulness" but rather those indwelt by Him, and others infilled by Him!

 

[DHK]

Sorry, but that is suppose to be the norm! We as the church have got way off track! God is bringing us back to what He intended us to be all along! But just like the generation in the wilderness...the unbelieving generation will have to die off first! He is raising up a generation that will believe His Word! I will be a Caleb and a Joshua....I believed his word when HE said it the first time! I will not believe the report of the unbelieving spys! Or in today's language the ones that have see God working now before he believes he can work at all!

NOw back on topic...is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

You are deceived. Beware lest you fall into this group:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You keep saying: "You cannot take my experiences away from me."
It is those that claim to have experiences and to be serving Jesus that Christ will say "Depart from me ye that work iniquity."
Their experiences are leading others astray from Christ, and the true doctrine of the Bible. You are not a Joshua or a Caleb. You are actually denying the Bible.
You claim certain things are true and then deny them by your life.
If what you say was true then demonstrate it; give evidence:

Demonstrate the gift of miracles.
Demonstrate the gift of healing as per Acts 5:16
Demonstrate the gift of languages.
--But you can't. Your impotency to demonstrate the very gifts you claim to have is evidence of the hypocrisy of the religion you profess to have.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, but that is suppose to be the norm! We as the church have got way off track! God is bringing us back to what He intended us to be all along! But just like the generation in the wilderness...the unbelieving generation will have to die off first! He is raising up a generation that will believe His Word! I will be a Caleb and a Joshua....I believed his word when HE said it the first time! I will not believe the report of the unbelieving spys! Or in today's language the ones that have see God working now before he believes he can work at all!

NOw back on topic...is there a difference in the indwelling Holy Spirit and the Spirit upon?

Do you believe the Lord started in 1905 to bring back the NT Church, and that when jesus returns, the church will be same as in acts, healings/miracles/demons cast out etc?

That he finally restored the NT church after some 1900 years?

 

[awaken]

Do you believe the Lord started in 1905 to bring back the NT Church, and that when jesus returns, the church will be same as in acts, healings/miracles/demons cast out etc?

That he finally restored the NT church after some 1900 years?

I believe he called out His church and gave them power in Acts to carry out what He started himself! I do not believe as most here that he ever meant for His church to lose power through unbelief!
I believe he has been trying to get us back on track for a long time! But just as in the wilderness...generations of unbelief had to die off before they could enter in! He has raised up a generation that will believe him!

 

[awaken]

You are deceived. Beware lest you fall into this group:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do you know the will of the Father? Are you doing His will or your own?

 

[DHK]

Do you know the will of the Father? Are you doing His will or your own?

Absolutely. I know what the will of the Father is; I am doing His will.
I came back from a meeting where a lady in her mid-eighties just trusted Christ as her Savior. I would say that is the Lord's will, and that is my will as well.
There was no gift of miracles; no gift of languages; no gift of healing.
But someone did enter into the kingdom of God, and the angels of heaven did rejoice.
And that is much greater than having a religion where one claims they can do things that they cannot do.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I believe he called out His church and gave them power in Acts to carry out what He started himself! I do not believe as most here that he ever meant for His church to lose power through unbelief!
I believe he has been trying to get us back on track for a long time! But just as in the wilderness...generations of unbelief had to die off before they could enter in! He has raised up a generation that will believe him!

That is disrespecting, disparaging, and denying the the great evangelistic and theological work done by faithful Christians who often gave their lives for the Gospel all down through the ages. I can't come up with words to describe how disgusting, reprehensible, and arrogant that is.

The more you talk, the more I realize just how much this charismatic false doctrine is should be despised.

 

[awaken]

Absolutely. I know what the will of the Father is; I am doing His will.
I came back from a meeting where a lady in her mid-eighties just trusted Christ as her Savior. I would say that is the Lord's will, and that is my will as well.
There was no gift of miracles; no gift of languages; no gift of healing.
But someone did enter into the kingdom of God, and the angels of heaven did rejoice.
And that is much greater than having a religion where one claims they can do things that they cannot do.

THe works that I do you will do greater works! WHat works did he do? DId paul demonstate the word without power?

That is a wonderful thing..someone entering into the KINGDOM of God! I do appreciate my roots in the Baptist church....because they can get you to the cross! Life in Christ is wonderful! IF they would only teach the power of the Holy Spirit and how to recognize and not quench Him!

 

[awaken]

That is disrespecting, disparaging, and denying the the great evangelistic and theological work done by faithful Christians who often gave their lives for the Gospel all down through the ages. I can't come up with words to describe how disgusting, reprehensible, and arrogant that is.

The more you talk, the more I realize just how much this charismatic false doctrine is should be despised.

Well, I hope that hatred and bitterness does not blind you!
I have great respect for those men including the apostles! But my greatest respect goes to the one that laid down His life for me! His Word had been watered down to the point that people sitting on the pews are starving to death for truth! Oh, and did I mention SPIRIT!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well, I hope that hatred and bitterness does not blind you!
I have great respect for those men including the apostles! But my greatest respect goes to the one that laid down His life for me! His Word had been watered down to the point that people sitting on the pews are starving to death for truth! Oh, and did I mention SPIRIT!

Since jesus wanted his church to manifest all those gifts same ways in Acts going forward, prer your own claim, why did the sovereign Lord have to wait 1900 yeras to restore his church back to what he wanted it to be? did satan or unbelief stop him from doing that before?

 

[DHK]

THe works that I do you will do greater works! WHat works did he do? DId paul demonstate the word without power?

That is a wonderful thing..someone entering into the KINGDOM of God! I do appreciate my roots in the Baptist church....because they can get you to the cross! Life in Christ is wonderful! IF they would only teach the power of the Holy Spirit and how to recognize and not quench Him!

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

When Paul came to Corinth he did not come with signs and wonders. He was not performing miracles in the midst of them. That is not the "power" that he is speaking of here. In fact he says plainly, that in contrast to the false teachers that were in the midst of the Corinthians, he came "in weakness, in fear, in much trembling."
His speech and preaching "was not with enticing words of man's wisdom."
It was in the "demonstration of the Spirit and power" of God.
But nowhere is he speaking of miracles, signs, wonders, healings, etc.

He is speaking of the power of the Word of God spoken through the Spirit of God. Look in Acts 2 and in chapter 4. When Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit then he preached. In chapter 4 when he was filled with the Holy Spirit he spoke the Word of God with boldness. The filling of the Holy Spirit did not bring about miracles but rather the ability to speak the Word of God boldly.

Miracles never led one soul to Christ.
Abraham told Lazarus that his brothers would not believe even if they saw one that was raised from the dead--the greatest miracle of all.
He continued to say: "If they believed not the law and the prophets neither would they believe if one rose from the dead."
The power is in the preaching of the Word. The power is in the Word itself.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

It is the Word that is powerful. Your experiences are lame. They are ineffective. They won't save anyone. It is the Word of God that saves.

When you ask the question what Jesus meant when he said:
THe works that I do you will do greater works! WHat works did he do?
He meant that we have a much longer life span than he did (3 years) to preach the gospel, that others might be saved. At the end of the ministry of Christ there were 120 disciples gathered in an upper room. That is all. Just 120!
I have been in full time service for a length of time that is over 10 times the period that Christ began his ministry. In that period of time multitudes have come to know the Lord, and through those that have come to know the Lord many more have come to know the Lord. These are the works that he was talking about. In comparison to that the "works" of the sign gifts are nothing and irrelevant.

He clearly said that those people who seek after such gifts as miracles belong to a wicked and adulterous generation. Jesus doesn't contradict himself.
But the angels in heaven rejoice when one soul enters into the kingdom of heaven.
Which group are you in? The one that brings joy to heaven or the other?

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

When Paul came to Corinth he did not come with signs and wonders. He was not performing miracles in the midst of them. That is not the "power" that he is speaking of here. In fact he says plainly, that in contrast to the false teachers that were in the midst of the Corinthians, he came "in weakness, in fear, in much trembling."
His speech and preaching "was not with enticing words of man's wisdom."
It was in the "demonstration of the Spirit and power" of God.
But nowhere is he speaking of miracles, signs, wonders, healings, etc.

He is speaking of the power of the Word of God spoken through the Spirit of God. Look in Acts 2 and in chapter 4. When Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit then he preached. In chapter 4 when he was filled with the Holy Spirit he spoke the Word of God with boldness. The filling of the Holy Spirit did not bring about miracles but rather the ability to speak the Word of God boldly.

Miracles never led one soul to Christ.
Abraham told Lazarus that his brothers would not believe even if they saw one that was raised from the dead--the greatest miracle of all.
He continued to say: "If they believed not the law and the prophets neither would they believe if one rose from the dead."
The power is in the preaching of the Word. The power is in the Word itself.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

It is the Word that is powerful. Your experiences are lame. They are ineffective. They won't save anyone. It is the Word of God that saves.

When you ask the question what Jesus meant when he said:
THe works that I do you will do greater works! WHat works did he do?
He meant that we have a much longer life span than he did (3 years) to preach the gospel, that others might be saved. At the end of the ministry of Christ there were 120 disciples gathered in an upper room. That is all. Just 120!
I have been in full time service for a length of time that is over 10 times the period that Christ began his ministry. In that period of time multitudes have come to know the Lord, and through those that have come to know the Lord many more have come to know the Lord. These are the works that he was talking about. In comparison to that the "works" of the sign gifts are nothing and irrelevant.

He clearly said that those people who seek after such gifts as miracles belong to a wicked and adulterous generation. Jesus doesn't contradict himself.
But the angels in heaven rejoice when one soul enters into the kingdom of heaven.
Which group are you in? The one that brings joy to heaven or the other?

Demonstration with Power!

 

[DHK]

Demonstration with Power!

The power of the Word of God through the Spirit of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Demonstration with Power!

Prophet isaiah stated that God said that His WORD will not return void to Him, it will accomplish that which he sent it forth to do!

jesus said that his generation were an evil and adultrous look, kept looking for signs, but only One he would give os his resurrection!

paul preached the Cross and the resurrection, what else is there missing to preach and teach on?

again, why does revelation record NO MENTION of last times church doing those great signs and wonder, only the antichrist/false prophet and their ilk?

you would think that IF 1905 was restoring the church to Acts again, the scriptures would say ANYTHING for us in end days going that stuff!