Infallibility or Ecumenical Error?

Clear as mud. Try being more direct.

Ron </font>[/QUOTE]1. Is it not true that Catholics randomly quote with authority the Church Fathers? But they pick and choose with great care which parts, for some of it is heresy.
2. Is it not true that the Catholics quote their popes with great authority? Here one also must be very careful, for there were some very wicked popes in the past who said and did some very wicked things.
3. Is it not true that the Catholics quote their theologians with great authority? Even though some are very liberal, and some are conservative, as is noted even today by the college of Cardinals.
4. Is it not true that all of the above shows a functional disunity in both the doctrine and the practice of the Catholic Church

Your problem all along is that you continue to avoid the questions asked of you.
DHK

 

Actually, I did already adress this.

"Of course, you fail (intentionally?) to differentiate between authoratative and noauthoratative sources. Not all sources are equal and not all are cited for the same purposes. To pretend that that are or must be is disingenuous to say the least."

Different sources are cited for different reasons. Some are authoratative, some are not.

When demonstrating what the Church teaches, authoratative sources are used.

When demonstrating what Christians in the early Church believed, nonauthoritative sources are often used.

Like I said, "Not all sources are equal and not all are cited for the same purposes. To pretend that that are or must be is disingenuous to say the least."

Ron

[ October 11, 2002, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

Actually, I did already adress this.

"Of course, you fail (intentionally?) to differentiate between authoratative and noauthoratative sources. Not all sources are equal and not all are cited for the same purposes. To pretend that that are or must be is disingenuous to say the least."

Different sources are cited for different reasons. Some are authoratative, some are not.
[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]You don't answer the questions, because either you cannot or will not.
Obviously all popes "ought" to have authority. You have just stated "some are authoritative and some are not." Tell me: Does Pope John Paul II speak with authority? Why or why not? How can one really know for sure? Is this just your "Catholic soul liberty," randomly choosing which words of his are authoritative and which are not?
DHK

 

DHK, you are misrepresenting my words.

Various sources cited by Catholics have differing degrees of authority. That is not a problem because they are cited for various purposes.

No, not all that the Pope says is authoratative, nor is it all infallible.

You know this. Why are you playing this game?

Ron

 

Sorry to take the wind out of your sails...

but you preach merely your interpretation.

The final authority is whatever verses you pick and choose to support your beliefs.

 

How is it then that there is so much disagreement between Baptists on this board as to the "one interpretation"?

Are all who disagree with you wrong?

Are you claiming some special knowledge?

Ron

 

How is it then that there is so much disagreement between Baptists on this board as to the "one interpretation"?

Are all who disagree with you wrong?

Are you claiming some special knowledge?

Ron[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]I think that when it comes to "Catholic doctrine" you will find the Baptists on this board fairly united as to what the Bible says about Catholic doctrine.
We are far more united than you portray us to be.
The Catholics are far more in disarray or disunity than you portray them to be.
DHK

 

Thank you for the commentary, but you completely neglect to answer my questions.

How is it then that there is so much disagreement between Baptists on this board as to the "one interpretation"?

Are all who disagree with you wrong?

Are you claiming some special knowledge?

Ron

 

Talk about begging the question!

You said that there is "one interpretation" of Scripture (presumably that would be your interpretation ), now you say that "different individuals hold different views on various topics"!

Which is it?

Gotta laugh, DHK. Do "all the Conservative Baptists" even know you, let alone what you say? How is it that you know what they agree with?

And you know this to be the case because...?

No doubt you are aware that all your "sola scriptura" buddies that interpret Scripture differnetly than you do make the same claim to being guided by the Holy Spirit?

So does the Holy Spirit lead different people to different truths? Or is somebody mistaken? How do you know for certain that it is not you who is mistaken?

I find it interesting that in nearly every post directed to me, you find it necessary to make some sort of dig.

Doesn't seem very Christian to me. But again, I forgive you.

 

What allegations?

You said there is "one interpretation" of Scripture. Why do you not answer my very direct and simple questions?

Is this a deliberate misrepresentation?

I said the "Constantine was not authoratative." It was your erroneous assumption that Constantine was Pope. Do you recall admitting that you had not read the thread before starting this accusation of me saying the Pope is not authoratative?

Please admit your error as publicly as you make your accusations.

Unfortunately, my questions to you, which you do not adress, were concerning a differnt quote.

So again...

How is it then that there is so much disagreement between Baptists on this board as to the "one interpretation"?

Are all who disagree with you wrong?

Are you claiming some special knowledge?

Your "sola scriptura" buddies that interpret Scripture differently than you do make the same claim to being guided by the Holy Spirit?

So does the Holy Spirit lead different people to different truths? Or is somebody mistaken? How do you know for certain that it is not you who is mistaken?

Ron

 

Instead of making vague and frivilous allegations which you cannot back up T2U, why not deal with the issues at hand. (DHK)

The above allegations have previously been adequately answered. Your problem is that you don't like the answers provided. The only way that you will get a more specific answer is to ask a more specific question. Wherein do we disagree? Give some example of disagreement or of "interpretation" as you put it. For example: Do we (Fundamental Baptists) disagree in: Christology, pneumatology, ecclesiology, soteriology, etc. Give some specific examples, and then I will try to account for it. Don't just make vague accusations or allegations that have no substance to them. As I mentioned before, we all are in agreement that the Catholic Doctrine is wrong. Isn't that unity enough?

I have answered them. You don't bother to read the answers or are not satisfied with them. Often you just mock.

Not at all. Go back and read what you have written in your own posts. Did you not say that even your present pope, Pope John Paul, does not speak authoritatively all the time? Would you like me to quote your very words? Some of what he says, then is authoritative, and some not. True or false? Is this not true of every pope. Not only is it true of every pope, it is also true of every Catholic theologian (both liberal and conservative), as well as every Church father (heretical and otherwise). You need to concede that in you church "authorities" you do not have anything "very" authoritative. We have the infallible Word of God as our final authority in all things pertaining to faith and practice.
This is what this thread is all about, is it not--infallibility. You will only find that in God's Word--never in a pope or religious organization.
DHK