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Infants in Heaven
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
No. You detect the influence of Paul's writings.
Anyway. Your allowing your presumptions to dictate your theology, and not the Scriptures.
One is saved by grace through faith. Period. Anything else is another gospel and is cursed.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Why not be influenced by the teaching of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 19:14. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Notice that Jesus Christ put no requirements of faith on little children who come to Him.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The idea that God will eternally damn innocent infants who know neither good no evil is rather nauseous.
Awake world! The Bible is incomplete and you may be saved at the golden gates if you have been a good old boy all your life. The Bible doesn't say that, but I am sure someone has.
All have sinned in Adam........period......I don't have to do anything to be guilty of sin. The Bible says that, not me.
Nothing in scripture provides for another means of salvation and every born person is guilty of sin, or the Bible lies and we just can't depend on it....If infant persons make it to heaven, it is by the grace of God and nothing in the Bible which declares it so.
Cheers,
Jim
All have sinned in Adam........period......I don't have to do anything to be guilty of sin. The Bible says that, not me.
Nothing in scripture provides for another means of salvation and every born person is guilty of sin, or the Bible lies and we just can't depend on it....If infant persons make it to heaven, it is by the grace of God and nothing in the Bible which declares it so.
Cheers,
Jim
What about the babies who aren't "born" yet? Are they guilty of sin? Was my son guilty of sin when he was still inside me? Was he guilty of sin the moment he was conceived? Was he guilty of his own sin or Adam's sin?
Do you think some babies go to hell?
Amy to your first question, my answer would be "yes" . To your second question, my answer is "I don't know". Either way, our hope our joy comes from a God who will always do what is right in His eyes. I rest in that, not about where my babies are. As a parent, I know it is very easy for my children to be an idol to me. Instead of being nauseated that God would send in infant to hell, we should rejoice that he has chosen to save us and not given us what we deserve! We need to rejoice in the fact that God will get the glory no matter what.
I am guilty because of Adam. I am found righteous because of Christ. I was conceived with Adam's imputed guilty, before I personally did anything. I was guilty because I was from Adam. However, in the same manner, I am not righteous because anything I have done. I'm only righteous because Christ (the second Adam) fulfilled the law. If an individual is only guilty because of what he/she does, then it would stand to reason that the person could only be found righteous because of what he/she does.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Jim
I have never said that an infant was saved other than by the grace of God. I have said previously that all inherit the sin nature because of Adam's transgression. However, that does not mean that infants are guilty of sinning. Jesus certainly did not indicate this when HE said:
Matthew 19:13, 14
13. Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amy
Your children inherited a sin nature because of the transgression of Adam. I believe that is Biblical. However, if your children die as infants I believe they will enter the presence of God through His Grace.
I do not believe that infants are capable of sin against God. I believe the passage of Scripture I quoted is evidence of that. I believe that passage of Scripture has been misused to justify taking infants or near infants into the Church on profession of faith. I believe the consequence is that we have a significant number of unregenerate people in the Church.
When your children reach a certain age, and only God knows what that age is, they will sin and be held accountable for that sin. Mohler used the incident of the Israelites refusing to enter Caanan as an example of such accountability.
Amy, my very first funeral, as I started ministry was that of an infant. I frankly didn't know what to say or do in that situation and wrestled day and night right up to the funeral. I errored on the side of understanding, and used David's words that he would see his child in heaven. I would preach exactly the same to-day.
Infants, and the unborn, are not innocent. What I was trying to say is that we are sinners because the sin nature was inherited in Adam, and not based on what we do or don't do.
We can invent a lot of "what if's" in life. What if the infant died in the womb before it took on a personality at birth? What is a person never heard the gospel? (remote people, say, in the South American jungles). What if they were good people all their lives? And there are some who essentially live a godly life of moral values.
We can find isolated texts that seem to cover these areas, and then we read other texts that contradict the concept. We are left to the grace of God and His prerogative in such cases. Personally, I believe that all "innocents" are under grace, including those with mental handicaps that hinders reason. Age of accountability was a term dreamed up to allow for this thinking, but I don't know what that age of accountability is. Grace, again, enters the picture, and no predeliction of scripture allows for this concept.
I think you would be at peace if I preached the funeral sermon for your unborn child. It is olne thing to debate theology, yet another to apply that theology in gray areas. It takes a true man of God to appreciate the difference in life.
Cheers, and bless,
Jim
Infants, and the unborn, are not innocent. What I was trying to say is that we are sinners because the sin nature was inherited in Adam, and not based on what we do or don't do.
We can invent a lot of "what if's" in life. What if the infant died in the womb before it took on a personality at birth? What is a person never heard the gospel? (remote people, say, in the South American jungles). What if they were good people all their lives? And there are some who essentially live a godly life of moral values.
We can find isolated texts that seem to cover these areas, and then we read other texts that contradict the concept. We are left to the grace of God and His prerogative in such cases. Personally, I believe that all "innocents" are under grace, including those with mental handicaps that hinders reason. Age of accountability was a term dreamed up to allow for this thinking, but I don't know what that age of accountability is. Grace, again, enters the picture, and no predeliction of scripture allows for this concept.
I think you would be at peace if I preached the funeral sermon for your unborn child. It is olne thing to debate theology, yet another to apply that theology in gray areas. It takes a true man of God to appreciate the difference in life.
Cheers, and bless,
Jim
Having a sin nature doesn't make one guilty before God. If it did, we would still be found guilty for having our sin natures even after accepting Christ. We are sinners because we sin. We are a product of sin and the curse, hence the sin nature, but once again, by definition... a sinner is one who sins, just like a rapist is one who rapes, a liar is one who lies, etc.
Not exactly.
Many people confuse "list of bad acts" with "Status as sinner."
"Sinner" is an inbred condition of the heart that rejects God as it seeks only its own. While the Grace of God allows even sinners to be restrained.
So, for example, even non-believers subscribe to the utilitarian principle that "lying is bad" -- not because he/she thinks there is a moral responsibility before God, but rather that lying is not useful in the long run.
Somehow (providentially!) God uses even this sinful, selfish reasoning to constrain the inclinations of the selfish heart.
A barren understanding of Christ's Atonement.
I haven't confused anything, as "status as sinner" is not found in Scripture. Sin nature is taught throughout, but Scripture teaches that sinners fall under His judgement. An infant has a sin nature, and like Paul teaches in Romans 7, when the knowledge of the law is gained, sin comes to life (they become a sinner), and they die (spiritually).
Rather be barren than bankrupt.
Which is what? Nothing I said contradicted each other.
In your earlier post (Which I responded to) you said sinning makes one a sinner (paraphrase).
In your reply you said sin nature is taught in Scripture.
Those are contradictory points.
Hardly. One is born with a sin nature. In the same way that it is programmed into our nature to talk, walk upright, socialize, it is also programmed in our nature to sin. Having the capacity to sin is not the same thing as sinning.