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Inflation Is Theft

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Dale-c, Jun 18, 2006.

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  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Where does our national debt come from then?
     
    #61 Dale-c, Jun 20, 2006
  2. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Oh really Dale, you know where debt comes from. It comes from spending more dollars than a person takes in. Same with the gov. If they spend more money than people pay in taxes, then they have to borrow it. It then becomes "national debt".

    Right now it is huge because Bush has been playing world policeman. Clinton had us balanced, but only on paper and what he really meant was that we were bringing in enough tax dollars to pay the interest on all the loans we've taken out over the years.
     
    #62 menageriekeeper, Jun 20, 2006
  3. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Yes, I am quite aware of this fact but where does this money come from?
    Where do they borrow it from?
    Who had however many trillion dollars to loan us?

    It comes from a "Fiat money" money that was produced out of nothing.

     
    #63 Dale-c, Jun 20, 2006
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    The same place it came from when we (the world) used gold (and other metals) as a standard. If you spend more than you take in, you go into debt.

    Some of that debt results from guns, ammunition, and other wars supplies, some results from Spam (seriously), some results from handout programs such as welfare.

    Even if you used the barter system, and you needed more beef than you had grain to pay for it, and the guy let you take it any way, then you would be in debt.

    If you owed someone 100 gold dubloons, and you only had 80, guess what? You would be in debt for 20 pieces of gold.
     
    #64 Hope of Glory, Jun 20, 2006
  5. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Here is a little more info. THis time about Fractional reserve banking.
    It is quite interesting actually. I have been learning a lot reading about it.

     
    #65 Dale-c, Jun 20, 2006
  6. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Thank you for proving my point!

    I forgot to add this link that tells more about debt and fractional reserve banking.
    PLease read it and then tell me where he is wrong.
     
    #66 Dale-c, Jun 20, 2006
  7. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Ummm Dale, banks have operated like this for a long time.

    It's not that they create money out of thin air, but that they take your money and lend it to others for things like houses or cars and such. This was what got a lot of banks into trouble during the depression. They didn't keep enough in reserve to cover the expect withdrawals. That is why there is a 10 % law on the books and also why we have the FDIC which will supposedly cover up to $100,000 if a bank unexpectedly goes belly up.

    Of course, if we don't want to take the risk we could alway bury our gold in the backyard. But then there is this story in scripture about the unprofitable servant who did just that..........
     
    #67 menageriekeeper, Jun 20, 2006
  8. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I understand that and it is common knowledge.
    But is it BIBLICAL?

    Did you read the link I sent?
    Do you really think that this a fair and honest, which is to say Biblical banking system?
    Do you think that a banking system NEEDs to be Biblical and honest or can they just do whatever they want?
     
    #68 Dale-c, Jun 20, 2006
  9. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Yes I read the link and it's clear that the writer's don't care much for our banking system.

    But we are back to whether or not scripture provides a clear method for banking and whether that method is the gold standard. There is some stuff in Deut. about lending but it is related to Jewish law. I'll look into it a bit and see what else I can find later on today sometime. (which means I'll do it if I get time)
     
    #69 menageriekeeper, Jun 21, 2006
  10. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Very clear, neither do I. We are biased for sure. I won't deny that.


    On this point I would say this.
    THere is no set rules to just exactly how it must be done.
    I do believe God made gold and silver for our use as currency. It is much better than any barter system as it is easily portable and when you have currency, it is something needed by all.

    The Bible says that we can't steal and that government is to punish the evil doer.
    It also says a false weight and balance is wrong.

    So for a Christian, we must look at fractional reserve banking and fiat money from a perspective of what is honest and just.

    Is it honest for a bank to create money that they don't have?
    To just print it up if they need it, making everyone else's of less value?

    Inflation of gold is limited by the labor and amount that miners can find more.
    Paper money is virtually infinite and digital money IS infinite.
    It can also be manipulated and skewed.

    I am not saying that we should go out and start using gold. I don't see how that is possible.
    I am only trying to show that we need to know that we are being cheated and lied to.
    It will take a revival to get anywhere but "my people perish for lack of wisdom"
    What we don't know IS hurting us.
     
    #70 Dale-c, Jun 21, 2006
  11. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Here is a little bit from the Wikipedia article on the Federal Reserve

     
    #71 Dale-c, Jun 21, 2006
  12. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    This is from the Wikipedia article on government debt.

     
    #72 Dale-c, Jun 21, 2006
  13. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Here is the fallacy of your beliefs: The Fed doesn't exactly make a habit of printing more money with nothing to back it. It's based on a portion of the GDP. Now, the GDP can change, but that is not intent at all.

    Suppose you have a mortgage on your house and it's appraised at $200,000. Suddenly, the bottom drops out of the real estate market and your house is now worth $20,000. Your mortgage is for $200,000. Have you been cheated or are you simply a victim of a volatile market?
     
    #73 Hope of Glory, Jun 21, 2006
  14. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Then how have we gotten so much currency?
    Come on, do you really think there is enough gold or silver or ANYTHING to back up all the currency that is in circulation?
    No banker argues about inflation, they just don't see immorality in it just as most of them would not see immorality to sodomy or abortion.
     
    #74 Dale-c, Jun 21, 2006
  15. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    It is based on a portion of the GDP.

    It is based on a portion of the GDP.

    It is based on a portion of the GDP.

    How many times does this need to be repeated for you to actually read it?

    Does the GDP remain stagnant?
     
    #75 Hope of Glory, Jun 21, 2006
  16. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Are you denying the fact of inflation, the fact that the value of our money is lower than it used to be?

    You can't buy a gallon of milk for 25¢ anymore, but you once were able to.
     
    #76 Dale-c, Jun 21, 2006
  17. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    And what exactly does that have to do with anything that we are discussing here? There was inflation when money was based on precious metals as well.
     
    #77 Hope of Glory, Jun 22, 2006
  18. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    That has everything to do with what we are discussing here.
    And no, we didn't have "inflation when money was based on precious metals as well"

    You can't just print up gold as you need it. It has a value in and of itself.
    There were slight variations of course when new gold was found, but you are avoiding the fact that we have massive inflation today.
     
    #78 Dale-c, Jun 22, 2006
  19. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Is it honest for a bank to create money that they don't have?

    Is it honest to use credit cards to create money that we don't have?
     
    #79 billwald, Jun 22, 2006
  20. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    Good point but I would point out one difference and that is fraud.
    credit cards are pure debt whereas printing money from nothing is essentially legalized counterfeiting.
    Forget about Credit Cards, would it be wrong for you to print up your own money at your discretion?
    I am sure you would go to jail for it because the Fed doesn't like competition!
     
    #80 Dale-c, Jun 22, 2006
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