Insincere gospel offer Part 2

[Yeshua1]

So you do blame satan and adam for their wrong choices then?

 

[SavedByGrace]

You should answer the question if you are able. Please try to be direct, making it easier for me to understand.

peace to you

I have already dealt with much of this on my own thread, maybe it is time for others to try to answer your queries...

 

[SavedByGrace]

So you do blame satan and adam for their wrong choices then?

see #20

 

[canadyjd]

I have already dealt with much of this on my own thread, maybe it is time for others to try to answer your queries...

You never answered this question directly, but yes, thank you for bowing out and letting someone else answer directly.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

You never answered this question directly, but yes, thank you for bowing out and letting someone else answer directly.

peace to you

sure, good to exchange again, even though we don't always agree! God bless

 

[canadyjd]

sure, good to exchange again, even though we don't always agree! God bless

As always, say hi to that cool queen of yours

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

In another thread about to be closed, opponents of the reformed position say the offer of salvation is insincere because the person is unable to respond in faith, having not been chosen by God.

These same folks acknowledge that God knows who will believe and who will reject the gospel.

The question is... Is the person able to respond differently than what God has already foreseen?

The answer is clearly “no”.

So, if the person is unable to respond to the gospel in faith in both cases, (whether not being chosen by God or God already knowing they will reject the gospel) doesn’t that make the offer of salvation insincere in both cases?

The question is narrow. Is the offer insincere in both cases? Can it be sincere in one case but insincere in the other? Why or why not?

No need to post volumes of positions already well known by everyone.

peace to you

Imagine God telling untold men consigned to eternal flames: "well I never told you because I knew you would reject anyway".
God's justice would certainly not be manifest in such a case nor exonerated from baseless accusations.
However, when God has offered them a sincere call to salvation, and they rejected, then there is no room for objection.
God is vindicated: as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou [God] art judged.

The reformed view is that God so constituted mankind in fallen Adam as to render man unable even to see his fallen condition.
It's like drugging a man unconscious then burning him eternally for refusing to answer your call while he was unconscious.
That is WORLDS away from pleading with a conscious man to answer your call which he willingly rejects.

 

[AustinC]

here is a question for you and those who share your theology. If God knew that Eve and Adam would disobey Him, and bring about the downfall of the human race, then why did He sill create man? Not only this, but, not much later, man again "fell" big time, after God has destroyed the world when He saved Noah and his family? Does any of this make any sense to you? did God fail twice?

Accusation #3

 

[Martin Marprelate]

here is a question for you and those who share your theology. If God knew that Eve and Adam would disobey Him, and bring about the downfall of the human race, then why did He sill create man? Not only this, but, not much later, man again "fell" big time, after God has destroyed the world when He saved Noah and his family? Does any of this make any sense to you? did God fail twice?

'You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"' Romans 9:19-24. Read it all).

 

[George Antonios]

'You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"' Romans 9:19-24. Read it all).

The question of a Jew who seeks righteousness through the works of the law, while rejecting Christ, and complains why God is hardening him and his nation.

Not the question of a man opposing Calvinistic theology.

 

[Iconoclast]

You should not start these threads. It is clear that these deeper doctrines elude your understanding! If you cannot see the connection between what I have written, and your response here, then I cannot help you. Maybe someone who shares your theology will explain this to you

Your hatred of the teaching of the biblical God is being revealed lo ed thread by thread.
The gospel is to freely offered.
The offer is sincere..
For you to suggest impure motives coming from God is wicked and you need to repent of it.

 

[Iconoclast]

again, with due respect, you don't know what you are on about, as it makes zero sense! You keep banging on about this, but it is out of your depth!

No....he understands just fine. You avoid the truth seeking to elude his question. Answer the question.

 

[Yeshua1]

'You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?" But indeed, O man who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"' Romans 9:19-24. Read it all).

Its all "the fault of God", but they will not come out and state that!

 

[George Antonios]

Your hatred of the teaching of the biblical God is being revealed lo ed thread by thread.
The gospel is to freely offered.
The offer is sincere..
For you to suggest impure motives coming from God is wicked and you need to repent of it.

You're the one suggesting that by Calvinism.
We don't believe God condemns people for not believing when he makes them unable to believe.

 

[George Antonios]

Its all "the fault of God", but they will not come out and state that!

Exactly. That's exactly the Calvinist position, although some Calvinists, here and there, especially high Calvinists, will kind of say it while also stating that somehow God remains sinless.

 

[Aaron]

In another thread about to be closed, opponents of the reformed position say the offer of salvation is insincere because the person is unable to respond in faith, having not been chosen by God.

It's just a cheaper cut of the Why-doth-He-yet-find-fault beef.

In the same vein, was God's command to Pharaoh insincere, since it was given to one He had hardened? Were the plagues unjust, because they were punishment for that hardening?

 

[Aaron]

here is a question for you and those who share your theology. If God knew that Eve and Adam would disobey Him, and bring about the downfall of the human race, then why did He sill create man? Not only this, but, not much later, man again "fell" big time, after God has destroyed the world when He saved Noah and his family? Does any of this make any sense to you? did God fail twice?

My question for you is, why the Creation in the first place? If there were no Fall, and mankind filled the earth, then what?

 

[SavedByGrace]

My question for you is, why the Creation in the first place? If there were no Fall, and mankind filled the earth, then what?

Do you understand my reasoning

 

[Hark]

In another thread about to be closed, opponents of the reformed position say the offer of salvation is insincere because the person is unable to respond in faith, having not been chosen by God.

These same folks acknowledge that God knows who will believe and who will reject the gospel.

The question is... Is the person able to respond differently than what God has already foreseen?

The answer is clearly “no”.

So, if the person is unable to respond to the gospel in faith in both cases, (whether not being chosen by God or God already knowing they will reject the gospel) doesn’t that make the offer of salvation insincere in both cases?

The question is narrow. Is the offer insincere in both cases? Can it be sincere in one case but insincere in the other? Why or why not?

No need to post volumes of positions already well known by everyone.

peace to you

Explain why Jesus said this to His disciples.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. 7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. KJV

Then explain why the Holy Spirit led these disciples to not preach to certain areas but yet come to Macedonia instead?

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them. KJV

Now you may doubt the application of His words but until you explain these two references , your discussion will always be at an impasse.

 

[George Antonios]

It's just a cheaper cut of the Why-doth-He-yet-find-fault beef.

In the same vein, was God's command to Pharaoh insincere, since it was given to one He had hardened? Were the plagues unjust, because they were punishment for that hardening?

The why doth he yet find fault? question is that of a Jew claiming that the hardening of Israel is unjust since Israel followed after the law of righteousness, whereas Gentiles which followed not after righteousness obtain it. That's the context.
It's not the question of man pointing out that Calvinism paints God out to be an unjust omnipotent fiend.

God only hardened Pharaoh after Pharaoh twice rejected God's word before God hardened him.
God foreknew the future, of course, but Pharaoh of his own will first rejected God.

This is the first actual hardening:
Exo 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

And it occurs after:
Exo 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.
Exo 7:12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

And after:
Exo 5:2 And Pharaoh said, Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice to let Israel go? I know not the LORD, neither will I let Israel go.