Inspiration of Message, but not of Words

[Guido]

It is often said that, were God to communicate, because He is the infinite and Almighty God, He would communicate perfectly, to wit, that He would communicate in a way that is focused, organized, succinct, powerful, and entertaining, without discrepancy, and without plot-holes, etc. And because it is reasoned that the God of the Bible failed to communicate in this manner, and that the translators have further tainted His communication, it is also believed that this God, who is our God, does not exist. But contrary to this it can also be argued, that the communication of God to us is colored by the writers of the Bible’s original manuscripts, because the doctrine of inspiration that many believe, that the writers wrote what the Holy Ghost told them to write verbatim, is not true, this not implying that the Bible is flawed, but that the writing of the Bible is the writing of humans, conveying the message of the Holy Ghost.

What is your opinion on this worn out topic?

 

[Deacon]

So where do you want to go with this, Guido?

Purpose of God's communication?
Definition of inspiration?
Methods/types of inspiration?
Authority of message?
Preservation of message?
Translation of message?

Rob

 

[Van]

I am always a little taken aback, when the premise considers whether God should have been more clear in His revelation. He should have made our choice less difficult.

I am reminded of the sweet kid, not 10 years old, who put his trust in Christ without any misgivings or doubts. His parents, his Pastor, and his Bible all said, Jesus loves you, and it is right to love him right back! Why that stupid kid did not wrestle with his well known and deeply flawed character for days and then, trembling and shamed ask for Christ's mercy and help to follow Him.

Nope, it was just not fair!

The option is God made our choice exactly as He desired, not wanting any to perish, but for all to be saved in accordance with His redemption plan.

1 Corinthians 2:13 When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.

Some take this verse to say God provided the very words the inspired writers used! I agree with that assessment. Now did God choose words that were within the vocabulary of the inspired writers? Probably. But remember, God is pretty clever and could probably find just the right words or combination of words to express just what He wanted to say. I agree with that assessment too!

 

[JonC]

It is often said that, were God to communicate, because He is the infinite and Almighty God, He would communicate perfectly, to wit, that He would communicate in a way that is focused, organized, succinct, powerful, and entertaining, without discrepancy, and without plot-holes, etc. And because it is reasoned that the God of the Bible failed to communicate in this manner, and that the translators have further tainted His communication, it is also believed that this God, who is our God, does not exist. But contrary to this it can also be argued, that the communication of God to us is colored by the writers of the Bible’s original manuscripts, because the doctrine of inspiration that many believe, that the writers wrote what the Holy Ghost told them to write verbatim, is not true, this not implying that the Bible is flawed, but that the writing of the Bible is the writing of humans, conveying the message of the Holy Ghost.

What is your opinion on this worn out topic?

I do not believe that the ideas expressed in the OP, while probably said, is said as often as one might suspect.

Scripture is "God breathed". This is the OT and the NT. These are God's words.

Yes, God used men. Yes, God :brought to mind" rather than dictated to men.

The question goes not to God's Word but whether or not God's Word can be translated (can the words God used be translated into other words in a different language).

I believe they can.

The reason is words are not stand alone sounds or markings. Words are, very literally, symbols for ideas. Words are vehicles used to communicate events to people who did not observe those events. Words are used to communicate ideas because we cannot experience the thoughts of other people 1st hand.


But the important thing is study. We have ti realize that English translations are translations. We have to consider the thoughts and events they were written to communicate to a people not there.

 

[Van]

SNIP
The question goes not to God's Word but whether or not God's Word can be translated (can the words God used be translated into other words in a different language).

I believe they can.
.

I agree. Not only did NT writers quote or paraphrase translations of the Hebrew, but God also only had His words written in three languages, thus it seems He planned on His words being conveyed in other additional languages.. Recall the gift of tongues. See Revelation 7:9

 

[John of Japan]

If God can produce the God-Man, His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, then surely He can produce a document that, while being 100% written by humans, is yet 100% the Word of God. And yes, every single word is important. The Bible is clear about every word being inspired.

This is not a "mechanical dictation" theory, as liberal theology claims. Though some evangelicals have used the word "dictation" in connection with verbal inspiration (Louis Gaussen, John R. Rice, etc.), they did not mean by that some process wherein the humanity of the human writers was subsumed into some robotic effort where the human has no input

As JonC pointed out, the Greek word for "inspired" in 2 Timothy 3:16 is the Greek word theopneustos, "God-breathed" (a term probably invented especially by Paul, since it occurs in no document before his). Then we have multiple verses indicating God inspired every word. What more does a believer need?

 

[Guido]

So where do you want to go with this, Guido?

Purpose of God's communication?
Definition of inspiration?
Methods/types of inspiration?
Authority of message?
Preservation of message?
Translation of message?

Rob

I guess I want to discuss methods/types of inspiration.

 

[JonC]

I guess I want to discuss methods/types of inspiration.

"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."

 

[Deacon]

I don't think there is a method of inspiration (although various characteristics of inspiration may be debatable)
There are various methods of revelation

General (or indirect) revelation

Can lead to conviction of sin but does not communicate a means of salvation (Romans 1:19)​

• God revealed through the natural world.
• Conscience, an inner sense or ‘voice’ which communicates right from wrong
• Reason

Special Revelation (direct, specific communication from God)

Can lead a person to salvation (Hebrews 1:1-2, Numbers 12:6-8)​

• dreams
• visions
• miracles
• experiences, e.g. theophany
• prophecy
• Scripture

Characteristics of inspiration may include:

• Verbal inspiration drawn from the fact that Scripture is God-breathed
• Plenary inspiration means “full" or "complete”: All Scripture is equally of divine origin and completely authoritative
• infallibility - the inability to be wrong
• inerrancy - free from error
• internal consistency - coherence of message, portrayal of God, teachings

Rob

 

[Van]

One well accepted viewpoint is that our inspired scriptures were "inerrant" in the original autographs, of which we have none, but may contain error due to non-inspired copyists inadvertently or on purpose altering the text. However, even in the form we have today, they are reliable and trustworthy, and should be used for instruction, training, and rebuking errant claims.