Instant miracles?

[Salty]

Throughout the Bible we see many instant miracles, those who were healed, raised from the dead, water turned to wine, Peter walking on water, ect.

Do you think we no longer see these 'instant miracles" in this day and age.

Often we will pray for a sick church member for several weeks to overcome that sickness.
Or, suppose a new person gets saved but has a problem with smoking - so we pray for that person -
it may take a year or so - for his to totally kick the habit.

Open for discussion.

 

[anerlogios]

While I do believe instant miracles are possible (of course, with God all things are possible), most have not seen them. However, I've encountered foreign missionaries that claim to be witnesses to such miracles.

What could be the reason for these lack of instant miracles? Some would say a lack of faith. Others would say the end of the apostolic age. This is a good post though.

 

[Salty]

While I do believe instant miracles are possible (of course, with God all things are possible), most have not seen them. However, I've encountered foreign missionaries that claim to be witnesses to such miracles.

What could be the reason for these lack of instant miracles? Some would say a lack of faith. Others would say the end of the apostolic age. This is a good post though.

Matt 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

 

[just-want-peace]

I just wonder IF these type miracles DO occur now, is it that we, as basically pampered Christians, are just too busy to see what is right before our eyes? Also modern medicine can take care of many of our ills, so there is a miracle in the healing, but just not instantaneous?!
Anymore though, it's not improbable that we do not recognize a miracle as readily simply due to the advanced technological "things" we see every day!
Just a thought!

 

[reformed_baptist]

Throughout the Bible we see many instant miracles, those who were healed, raised from the dead, water turned to wine, Peter walking on water, ect.

Do you think we no longer see these 'instant miracles" in this day and age.

Often we will pray for a sick church member for several weeks to overcome that sickness.
Or, suppose a new person gets saved but has a problem with smoking - so we pray for that person -
it may take a year or so - for his to totally kick the habit.

Open for discussion.

Do we see such miracles throughout the Bible or do they only occur at certain points in history?

I believe the answer to such a question will greatly influence our view on this matter, for example if miracles were there to authenticate specific ministries, eg, Moses, Elijah/ Elisha, Jesus and the apostles then we should only expect them to exist in certain situations (which are few and far between) however if one can establish that miracles were a common experience in every generation then that might make then normative.

 

[Salty]

I just wonder IF these type miracles DO occur now,...Also modern medicine can take care of many of our ills, so there is a miracle in the healing, but just not instantaneous?

-

(bold- my emphasis) That is the whole purpose of this thread. As we do NOT see instantaneous miracles, in this day and age.

 

[Baptist Believer]

That is the whole purpose of this thread. As we do NOT see instantaneous miracles, in this day and age.

In my Sunday School class a few weeks ago, I had two young men who have served on the mission field. We were discussing the 70/72 disciples that went out with the authority of Jesus and proclaimed the Kingdom of God (see Luke 10) performing healings as a sign that the Kingdom was accessible to them.

I asked the question about whether or not we have the authority of Jesus to proclaim the Kingdom and whether or not we should expect to see manifestations of it.

As one who has seen Christ's authority worked out through my words - "instantly" - I know that it happens according to the will of God and God's wisdom for the moment, but I was interested to hear what others thought. One of the young missionary men reluctantly confessed that when they were preaching in tiny villages in India, sick people would come and find healing as they listened. He also told of a couple of incidents where people would bring their infants and children to their team and they would pray for the children and they would be healed instantly. The healings served to authenticate their message.

 

[Happy]

Throughout the Bible we see many instant miracles, those who were healed, raised from the dead, water turned to wine, Peter walking on water, ect.

Do you think we no longer see these 'instant miracles" in this day and age.

Often we will pray for a sick church member for several weeks to overcome that sickness.
Or, suppose a new person gets saved but has a problem with smoking - so we pray for that person -
it may take a year or so - for his to totally kick the habit.

Open for discussion.

I do believe people experience "instant miracles".

Just curious, what is your view on the difference between "inhaling" incense smoke, campfire smoke or cigarette smoke?

 

[HankD]

I try to NOT use the word "miracle" as applied to the 21st century church.

Of course I have faith to believe that God could and would be able to evoke a "miracle" healing in the 21st century and If I saw an authentic such healing then I would accept it as such.

This is the church age: Faith is our banner not sight.

IMO instantaneous healing as in the days of His flesh is not His standard motif in the here and now.

I have however seen cures and situations as answers to the prayer of faith that would qualify as perhaps "miraculous".

HankD

 

[TCassidy]

I try to NOT use the word "miracle" as applied to the 21st century church.

I think this may be the crux of the problem. We cannot intelligently discuss miracles until we agree on the definition of "miracle."

I have a place where I am comfortable. There are two types of miracles. The creative miracle and the probability miracle.

The creative miracle is a miracle that involves a creative act. God creates something that was not there before. The healing of the blind man (God created new eyes or at least new portions of the eye) or the lame man (God created new healthy tissue to replace the old withered tissue) as recorded in the bible would be a miracle of the first order.

The probability miracle is a miracle where God so influences the laws of probability that something almost impossible actually happens. A Christian man was flying a military jet when it experienced catastrophic turbine failure. He ejected but the parachute failed to deploy. He fell 9 thousand feet to the ground. He struck the top of a pine tree and the branches slowed his descent and he landed quite gently next to that tree, got up and walked away. What are the odds of that happening? Slim to none. But the odds of that happening are under the purview of God with whom nothing is impossible. A miracle of the second order.

The difference is that with the first order even unbelievers have to acknowledge that Someone intervened in the normal course of human events.

In the second that same unbeliever could respond "wow are you ever lucky!"

I believe the first order was limited to the work of Prophets as they gave the word of God to the people, to Christ as He proved He was the Messiah, and the NT writers as they gave the word of God. Such miracles of creation no longer occur as the giving of the word of God is complete.

Miracles of the second order, the twisting of the laws of probability, can still happen today. I had less than a 1% chance of surviving for 5 years. But I am still here, 41 years later.

 

[Yeshua1]

Throughout the Bible we see many instant miracles, those who were healed, raised from the dead, water turned to wine, Peter walking on water, ect.

Do you think we no longer see these 'instant miracles" in this day and age.

Often we will pray for a sick church member for several weeks to overcome that sickness.
Or, suppose a new person gets saved but has a problem with smoking - so we pray for that person -
it may take a year or so - for his to totally kick the habit.

Open for discussion.

Would say that the sign gifts ceased pretty much after Apostolic Age, but God at times, especially in areas/lands not opened up to the message of the Gospel, can and does show off jesus by healings/miracles, but that is Him doing them, and not one "gifted" to do them as in Acts!
We do not see them here I think mainly due to us here having and knowing the message of Jesus, while foreign lands need to have that confirmation by God much more than us!

 

[Salty]

I have a personal friend who is a missionary in a fourth world country.
He has been there about ten years now.
Here is his response to my OP:

Hi Salty,

I'm no expert, but I'll share our experience here. I fully believe
that God heals, but having worked in a remote 3rd world health
ministry for almost a decade, we've not seen miraculous healings done
at the hand of anyone. Believe me, we pray for that ability to heal,
especially when we have cases of drug-resistant TB, meningitis,
mothers bleeding out after delivering babies, children who have fallen
into the river, and I could go on and on.

I do not doubt that God can and does do such things, but He hasn't
chosen to do so here. There are hucksters who come out here and claim
to have a gift to heal, but I NEVER see them tackle the cases our dear
nurses deal with. It's ALWAYS the hidden *illness* stuff, so you can't
prove a healing or not. I've also heard from our national preachers of
these kind of people praying for people's healing, and everyone
claiming it, and it having it seem like it works...only to have it
deteriorate/return within a day or two (maybe it was the power of
suggstion that worked there...).

It's a sensitive subject with us, because as we search the Word about
this, the Gospel and Acts accounts of healings were immediate,
effectual, and lasting. EVERY. TIME.

And the Apostle Paul couldn't get healed, nor could Trophimus, nor I'm
sure many others, because God's will and purposes far exceeded what
anyone could see. I have a crippled friend here who is a believer, but
with two useless legs he drags himself in and out of his hut in the
middle of the jungle. Those claiming to have power to heal haven't
helped him. Our nurses have treated his massive bed sores for years,
with much success. I have a young friend who has gone blind in both
eyes, and he lives in constant pain. We've flown him out of the jungle
twice to have surgery on his eyes, to no avail. Those claiming to have
power to heal don't even come near him, and we all know why.

If God chose to hear our prayers (which we do pray!) to heal these
two, and many others, we would praise the Lord with all our breath. We
have seen God answer prayer and heal impossible cases, right before
our eyes...but He doesn't do it all the time...therefore we hesitate
to say any of our team has the gift of healing.

It's easy to find people claiming instant healing among people living
in remote places, but proving the healing is another thing. Maybe God
is doing it, and if He is, I praise Him for it. But I'm not seeing it
here, though I see God's hand daily in what happens here, and I've
seen many come to faith it Christ THROUGH their sufferings, even when
they weren't delivered from the suffering.

Maybe we will see you next year. Pray for us.

NOTE: My missionary friend will be home on deputation next year.
It has been over 30 years since I have seen "Jim and Joan"
I have talked to them on the phone several times over the years -
It will be a blessing to see them in person next year.

 

[Alcott]

The instant is probably not as good as the 'regular.'

 

[Salty]

The instant is probably not as good as the 'regular.'

why not?

 

[Yeshua1]

I think this may be the crux of the problem. We cannot intelligently discuss miracles until we agree on the definition of "miracle."

I have a place where I am comfortable. There are two types of miracles. The creative miracle and the probability miracle.

The creative miracle is a miracle that involves a creative act. God creates something that was not there before. The healing of the blind man (God created new eyes or at least new portions of the eye) or the lame man (God created new healthy tissue to replace the old withered tissue) as recorded in the bible would be a miracle of the first order.

The probability miracle is a miracle where God so influences the laws of probability that something almost impossible actually happens. A Christian man was flying a military jet when it experienced catastrophic turbine failure. He ejected but the parachute failed to deploy. He fell 9 thousand feet to the ground. He struck the top of a pine tree and the branches slowed his descent and he landed quite gently next to that tree, got up and walked away. What are the odds of that happening? Slim to none. But the odds of that happening are under the purview of God with whom nothing is impossible. A miracle of the second order.

The difference is that with the first order even unbelievers have to acknowledge that Someone intervened in the normal course of human events.

In the second that same unbeliever could respond "wow are you ever lucky!"

I believe the first order was limited to the work of Prophets as they gave the word of God to the people, to Christ as He proved He was the Messiah, and the NT writers as they gave the word of God. Such miracles of creation no longer occur as the giving of the word of God is complete.

Miracles of the second order, the twisting of the laws of probability, can still happen today. I had less than a 1% chance of surviving for 5 years. But I am still here, 41 years later.

Jesus did MANY healings and miracles, as did his Apostles, so while God can and does at times intervene to still do such, do not seet hat Gift has given to some gifts to do that anymore...