Intellectual Faith

[kyredneck]

a mere intellectual assent

19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2

 

[kyredneck]

There are people who "believe in vain"

No. We've been through this before, you and I. You have totally, completely misinterpreted this portion of scripture.

Poor Icon, he obsesses over false believers. They're everywhere! They're everywhere!

[add]

"I know you've a really big emphasis on false professors, but I think you've totally missed Paul's intent here.

Compare 1 Cor 15:2:

by which also ye are saved, if ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you, except ye believed in vain.

With 1 Cor 15:16-17

For if the dead are not raised, neither hath Christ been raised:
and if Christ hath not been raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

I think the New Living Translation gets Paul's intent right:

It is this Good News that saves you if you continue to believe the message I told you--unless, of course, you believed something that was never true in the first place."

 

[Reformed]

I answered this before but cannot find my post.
When people have only an intellectual faith in the historical facts of the gospel it shows itself in all manner of errors.
They deny bible truth can be known, they relegate everything to a theory.
Sometimes they want to only see their own ideas, as they believe everyone else is wrong.
There is a craving for novelties.
The set aside historic beliefs for obscure ideas offered by obscure persons.
They do not readily accept biblical correction but instead boast of their own self righteousness.

I do not think any single branch of evangelicalism has a corner on this error, although some proclaim this type of gospel more than others. I have seen this in evangelism methods that divorce repentance from faith. The biblical gospel proclaims a turning from sin. When Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler to follow Him (Matthew 19:21), He told him to do exactly that. Included in that following would be a turning from everything that young man held dear. While we may not be called to give up all our possessions (although that is a possibility), there is enough evidence in scripture about forsaking all, even including our life, for the cause of Christ (Matthew 16:24-26; Philippians 3:7-8). Proclaiming that type of gospel (the biblical gospel) is not exactly "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life."

There is a personal reason for me starting this thread. I have seen too many Christian friends and family members abandon their faith. I have witnessed the wreckage left behind. I know the deceitfulness of my own heart and the struggles I deal with daily. I need to remind myself often of both the power of God's saving grace and the commitment I have made to follow Him.

 

[HankD]

Interesting, who believes this?

gnostics back in the day.

Many Catholics modernly. As a boy i was only required to memorize the correct answers to my catechism book to be ready to receive Confirmation.

 

[Southern Fried Baptist]

I thought trusting Christ alone for salvation was enough. Didn’t know I had to repent of my sins first. I’m still sinning so......And how much fruit is enough to have assurance of salvation cause some days I’m a total failure at this.

All I know is Jesus died, was buried and rose again. I have put my trust in that alone to stand forgiven before God. Not a prayer, good works, repentance of my sins. Trust in the Lord is all I got man.

 

[37818]

What do you mean by easy believism?

There are no works to do in order to be saved. Salvation is complete a free gift. All that is required is to believe God about His Christ having died in our place so that one's sins are completely forgiven and the testamony Christ really did this is God rised Him from the dead because sins were fully paid once and for all. And so Christ fully intercedes for us. This forgiveness is so complete one's sins will not in any way be remembered against us. Hebrews 10:17; Jeremiah 31:31-34. 1 John 5:9-13. Titus 1:2.

Do you disagree with my post #29?

Whiie it is true dead faith saves no one. Those that are saved have works as a result of God, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Ephesians 2:10. Now the works of the saved that result in zero reward do not cause one to become lost, `1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

Now the problem with many that argue,

Not if their faith is dead. <snip>

There exists a failure among some to understand Abraham was fully justified without works, Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:1-5, some 50 years before he was also justifed by a work, Genesis 22:12.

The works that follow faith in Christ in which God gives us full forgiveness are the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our own works can all fail, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

 

[37818]

Saving faith is the gift of God given to His elect. Men in their unregenerate state can come to certain kinds of faith, but not to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Saving faith is wrought in the heart of the elect sinner in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

After faith in Christ. Ephesians 2:8; Acts of the Apostles 16:31, "shalt be saved." God does the saving and does the keeping. All we can do is to trust God in His promise to save by believing in His Christ. God makes it easy. The religious and lost trust in their works, Matthew 7:21-23. God's will is for use to recieve salvation solely as a gift.

 

[37818]

I used to have copies of "Absolutely Free" (Hodges); "So Great Salvation" (Ryrie); and "The Reign of the Servant Kings" (Dillow) but those books are no longer part of my library. I do have a copy of this anecdote from Zane Hodges that he told about a friend who left the Christian faith. The name of the church was left blank to protect the members of the church:

"I have a friend, and more than a friend, a man who labored with me side by side in the ministry of God’s Word in the little group that has become __________ Bible chapel and this friend has fallen away from the Christian faith. He graduated from Bob Jones University and from Dallas Theological Seminary. And about the time when he and his wife left Dallas his wife contracted a very serious illness which over the years got progressively worse until she was reduced to being a complete invalid, and after the death of his wife I visited my friend (who now lives in the Midwest and who teaches Ancient History in a secular university).

And as we sat in the living room together, face to face, he told me very frankly but graciously that he no longer claimed to be a Christian at all, that he no longer believed the things that he once preached and taught, and the situation was even worse than he described because I heard through others that in the classroom on the university campus he often mocked and ridiculed the Christian faith. As I sat in that living room I was very painfully aware that it was impossible for me to talk that man into changing his mind. It was impossible for me to talk him back to the conviction he had once held. It was impossible for me to renew him to repentance. You want to find someone harder to deal with than an unsaved person? Find a person like that….

Oh how disgraceful for a man to have known the truth and proclaimed the truth and then to deny the truth! He has put the Son of God to an open shame! Well you say, “I guess he’s headed for hell, right? I guess he’s headed for eternal damnation. He’s renounced his Christian faith.” Wait a minute. I didn’t say that, and neither does the writer of Hebrews. Let me remind you that Jesus said, “I am the bread of life. He that cometh to Me shall never hunger and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.” And He also said, “He that cometh to Me I shall in no wise cast out.”… God’s will is that He lose no one (John 6:37-40 ). He has never lost anyone and He never will! And I grieve because my friend and brother has lost his faith but Christ has not lost him. He has lost his faith but Christ has not lost him! Do you believe in the grace of God?"

If you look at the last paragraph (above), it seems that Hodges did not consider the words of the apostle John:

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Joseph Dillow is a name I forgot to mention in my previous post. In his book, "The Reign of the Servant Kings" he wrote, "It is possible for a truly born-again person to fall away from the faith and cease believing." Again, like Hodges, this seems to contradict 1 John 2:19. If a person completely falls away from the faith, they are apostate.

Billy Graham's friend and former colleague Charles Templeton similarly lost his faith just like the friend of Zane Hodges. Unlike Hodges though, Graham never said Templeton was still supposedly saved, though he did pray he would repent and believe once more. Templeton never did.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4, ". . . But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: . . ."

2 John 1:9, ". . . Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. . . ."

 

[MB]

Intellectual faith is not repentant faith. Repentance is necessary for salvation. Therefore, intellectual faith is not the faith by which we are saved and justified.

Where does scripture say there are more than one kind of faith?
MB

 

[Steven Yeadon]

There are no works to do in order to be saved. Salvation is complete a free gift. All that is required is to believe God about His Christ having died in our place so that one's sins are completely forgiven and the testamony Christ really did this is God rised Him from the dead because sins were fully paid once and for all. And so Christ fully intercedes for us. This forgiveness is so complete one's sins will not in any way be remembered against us. Hebrews 10:17; Jeremiah 31:31-34. 1 John 5:9-13. Titus 1:2.


Whiie it is true dead faith saves no one. Those that are saved have works as a result of God, 2 Corinthians 5:17, Ephesians 2:10. Now the works of the saved that result in zero reward do not cause one to become lost, `1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

Now the problem with many that argue,
There exists a failure among some to understand Abraham was fully justified without works, Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:1-5, some 50 years before he was also justifed by a work, Genesis 22:12.

The works that follow faith in Christ in which God gives us full forgiveness are the fruit of the Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23; 2 Corinthians 5:17. Our own works can all fail, 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.

It sounds like we agree, but I must explain. Abraham is credited as righteous because of his faith. That faith led Abraham to do things. By faith Abraham offered up Isaac for instance (Hebrews 11:17). Faith was the cause, acts of obedience the effect. We aren't sinless as believers, but we are different and growing to be like Jesus Christ in thoughts, words, and deeds.

I hope that explained my position, which sounds like yours at base.

 

[MB]

Saving faith is the gift of God given to His elect. Men in their unregenerate state can come to certain kinds of faith, but not to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Saving faith is wrought in the heart of the elect sinner in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

First of all A measure of faith is given to every man. The rest of your statement here is completely false such as claiming election for your self. There is not one gentile in scripture ever called elect. No where in scripture does it ever say that God has elected the Gentiles. Scripture does say that the Jews are elect.

Because of the corruption of men’s hearts by nature they cannot come truly love God. The disposition of the heart of the unregenerate is such as he does not love God, but he hates God. He is at enmity with God.

“because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be: and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” (Romans 8:7-8 ASV)

Gentiles have been granted repentance;
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

If we read on to the next verse it becomes evident that the mind of the flesh is a description of the unsaved person: “But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9 ASV)

Yet Paul had to speak to some of them as natural feeding them milk which all natural men can understand. No one learns the what the advanced student knows until they begin at the beginning.

“Now the natural man receiveth not the things of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man.” (1 Corinthians 2:14-15 ASV)

This is speaking of the deep things of God 1st Cor 2;10

“No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.” (John 6:44 ASV)

This was true of the twelve disciples but After the death and ressurection of Christ. Jesus Him self does the drawing.
Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

“A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my ordinances, and do them.” (Ezekiel 36:26-27 ASV)

This was addressed to the Jews not the Gentiles. According to the Bible they did not obey the Law's and ordinances. We are not under the Law.

“And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh; and will give them a heart of flesh; that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.” (Ezekiel 11:19-20 ASV)

“and I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from following [after] them, to do them good; and I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me.” (Jeremiah 32:39-40 ASV)

[/QUOTE]

All this was addressed to the Jews under to old covenant. No one but the Jews were under the old covenant. I see you apply these to your self. Are you Jewish?
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

I am not asking this question in the blind. I have an opinion about it but I am interested in the opinions of others. So, the question is:

Is intellectual faith alone sufficient for salvation?

Per James, the answer would be nope!

 

[Noah Hirsch]

19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2

Orthodox intellectual belief is not the faith by which we are justified, the faith by which we receive the righteousness of Christ for our righteousness before God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Orthodox intellectual belief is not the faith by which we are justified, the faith by which we receive the righteousness of Christ for our righteousness before God.

the faith that is real is the gift from God Himself to us....

 

[Noah Hirsch]

First of all A measure of faith is given to every man. The rest of your statement here is completely false such as claiming election for your self. There is not one gentile in scripture ever called elect. No where in scripture does it ever say that God has elected the Gentiles. Scripture does say that the Jews are elect.


Gentiles have been granted repentance;
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Yet Paul had to speak to some of them as natural feeding them milk which all natural men can understand. No one learns the what the advanced student knows until they begin at the beginning.


This is speaking of the deep things of God 1st Cor 2;10



This was true of the twelve disciples but After the death and ressurection of Christ. Jesus Him self does the drawing.
Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.




This was addressed to the Jews not the Gentiles. According to the Bible they did not obey the Law's and ordinances. We are not under the Law.

All this was addressed to the Jews under to old covenant. No one but the Jews were under the old covenant. I see you apply these to your self. Are you Jewish?
MB[/QUOTE]

It is the divinely given interpretation that the new covenant spoken of in

First of all A measure of faith is given to every man. The rest of your statement here is completely false such as claiming election for your self. There is not one gentile in scripture ever called elect. No where in scripture does it ever say that God has elected the Gentiles. Scripture does say that the Jews are elect.


Gentiles have been granted repentance;
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


Yet Paul had to speak to some of them as natural feeding them milk which all natural men can understand. No one learns the what the advanced student knows until they begin at the beginning.


This is speaking of the deep things of God 1st Cor 2;10



This was true of the twelve disciples but After the death and ressurection of Christ. Jesus Him self does the drawing.
Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.




This was addressed to the Jews not the Gentiles. According to the Bible they did not obey the Law's and ordinances. We are not under the Law.

All this was addressed to the Jews under to old covenant. No one but the Jews were under the old covenant. I see you apply these to your self. Are you Jewish?
MB[/QUOTE]

It is the divinely given interpretation of Jeremiah 31:31-34 that the new covenant it refers to is the new covenant that is in Christ’s blood. (see Hebrews 8:7-13, 10:1-18)

 

[tyndale1946]

I thought trusting Christ alone for salvation was enough. Didn’t know I had to repent of my sins first. I’m still sinning so......And how much fruit is enough to have assurance of salvation cause some days I’m a total failure at this.

All I know is Jesus died, was buried and rose again. I have put my trust in that alone to stand forgiven before God. Not a prayer, good works, repentance of my sins. Trust in the Lord is all I got man.

Intellectual faith?... Now that's one I haven't heard before!... No intellect of mine on my part... Sovereign Grace says its 100% The Faith Of Jesus Christ, now where is man's intellectual faith in that?... Brother Glen

 

[Noah Hirsch]

Intellectual faith?... Now that's one I haven't heard before!... No intellect of mine on my part... Sovereign Grace says its 100% The Faith Of Jesus Christ, now where is man's intellectual faith in that?... Brother Glen

I am not saying salvation is by works. I am not saying we are justified by our own righteousness. I am not saying any of our own good works, holiness of heart, or piety makes up any part of our righteousness before God. What I am saying is that the faith by which we are justified is not a faith that is devoid of repentance. I do not understand repenting of sin to be the same thing as works. One could make it into works. He could trust in his repentance as his righteousness, but making repentance a condition of salvation is not works righteousness. What I am saying is not that we must repent of everyone of our individual sins to be saved. That would be works. “Who can discern his errors? Clear thou me from hidden faults.” (Psalm 19:12 ASV) A wrong understanding of the nature of repentance can lead to trusting in works and one’s own goodness. By intellectual faith I mean a faith that believes certain divine truths concerning God and the way of salvation by Christ, but does not really repent of sin and trust in Christ for salvation.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I thought trusting Christ alone for salvation was enough. Didn’t know I had to repent of my sins first. I’m still sinning so......And how much fruit is enough to have assurance of salvation cause some days I’m a total failure at this.

All I know is Jesus died, was buried and rose again. I have put my trust in that alone to stand forgiven before God. Not a prayer, good works, repentance of my sins. Trust in the Lord is all I got man.

I must issue some caution from my own story. I became a Christian in 2004 at an SBC church as an adult. Within a year I was dabbling in Eastern religious ideas and Charismatic Christianity. A few years in my life was a train wreck. I went on to become a mooch and added being a liberal Evangelical Christian to my sins. I earnestly believed I was a Christian and read the bible through a few times.

Finally I started to turn my life around and after reading about the resurrection, I was sure I would wind up in hell. I put faith in Jesus Christ and committed myself to obey Him, and my life has never been the same.

We must challenge the complacency of fool's and the waywardness of the simple. Because a lot of dedicated Christians are tares that need to come to Jesus in a way that actions follow faith to be wheat.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I do not think any single branch of evangelicalism has a corner on this error, although some proclaim this type of gospel more than others. I have seen this in evangelism methods that divorce repentance from faith. The biblical gospel proclaims a turning from sin. When Jesus told the Rich Young Ruler to follow Him (Matthew 19:21), He told him to do exactly that. Included in that following would be a turning from everything that young man held dear. While we may not be called to give up all our possessions (although that is a possibility), there is enough evidence in scripture about forsaking all, even including our life, for the cause of Christ (Matthew 16:24-26; Philippians 3:7-8). Proclaiming that type of gospel (the biblical gospel) is not exactly "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life."

There is a personal reason for me starting this thread. I have seen too many Christian friends and family members abandon their faith. I have witnessed the wreckage left behind. I know the deceitfulness of my own heart and the struggles I deal with daily. I need to remind myself often of both the power of God's saving grace and the commitment I have made to follow Him.

I also lost a lot of friends who were raised Christian to neopaganism, secularism, and wanton lives of sin with an empty confession.

I do not think intellectual faith is what you mean. I think it is a faith built on a hollow confession to others that never touched the heart their whole lives. Romans 10:9-10 tells me faith that saves is in the heart, by translation a faith that is guiding our will, emotions, and reason. When this faith is combined with confession of it unto death, we have found someone indwelled by the Spirit and growing in obedience to Jesus Christ.

 

[Southern Fried Baptist]

We must challenge the complacency of fool's and the waywardness of the simple. Because a lot of dedicated Christians are tares that need to come to Jesus in a way that actions follow faith to be wheat.

Did you just call me a fool and simple? LOL