Interesting heaven/hell view

[Born_in_Crewe]

Was talking to a man at a church event (not the one I attend) on Thursday and we got into heaven and hell theology - more his doing than mine as I wasn't really in the mood for a serious chat. It was quite an eye opener, as he basically said the ''Lake of Fire'' is not a place of eternal torment but rather a literal second death.

He did say that some people will be eternally tortured, but these are only people with the mark of the Beast.

His view was that some unsaved people's future will be:-

First Death > Period in Hades > Judgement seat of Christ > Lake of Fire > Second Death > Non-existence.

What I found most unusual though, was that he said that Jesus will visit Hades and attempt to convert those who are not converted. He seemed to be suggesting that those who haven't heard the true gospel will get to hear it after death. I am not sure whether he believes people will get a second chance in Hades if they have rejected Jesus on Earth.

So, for those who are converted in Heaven it will be:-

First Death > Conversion in Hades > Judgement > Heaven (or New Earth)

Personally I didn't really buy it. One thing I thought was a bit strange was that he claimed that the Rich Man who wanted Lazarus to send a drip of water to him couldn't have been in that much pain, as he only needed a drip of water. Luke 16:24 being the obvious problem with this (''I am in agony in this fire'').

I do hope he is at least partially correct however, as I like the idea of those who have not heard being given a second chance after death. But the idea of Jesus going down to Hades or being down there now is a bit odd.

 

[Marcia]

Was talking to a man at a church event (not the one I attend) on Thursday and we got into heaven and hell theology - more his doing than mine as I wasn't really in the mood for a serious chat. It was quite an eye opener, as he basically said the ''Lake of Fire'' is not a place of eternal torment but rather a literal second death.

He did say that some people will be eternally tortured, but these are only people with the mark of the Beast.

His view was that some unsaved people's future will be:-

First Death > Period in Hades > Judgement seat of Christ > Lake of Fire > Second Death > Non-existence.

What I found most unusual though, was that he said that Jesus will visit Hades and attempt to convert those who are not converted. He seemed to be suggesting that those who haven't heard the true gospel will get to hear it after death. I am not sure whether he believes people will get a second chance in Hades if they have rejected Jesus on Earth.

So, for those who are converted in Heaven it will be:-

First Death > Conversion in Hades > Judgement > Heaven (or New Earth)

Personally I didn't really buy it. One thing I thought was a bit strange was that he claimed that the Rich Man who wanted Lazarus to send a drip of water to him couldn't have been in that much pain, as he only needed a drip of water. Luke 16:24 being the obvious problem with this (''I am in agony in this fire'').

I do hope he is at least partially correct however, as I like the idea of those who have not heard being given a second chance after death. But the idea of Jesus going down to Hades or being down there now is a bit odd.

This guy sounds like he endorses annihilitianism (also called conditionalism), a view held by SDAs, JWs, and some non-SDA Christians who have written on it. However, they have been soundly refuted.

One of the best refutations is an article by a prof. named Robert A. Peterson who has written 3 books on hell. I met him and heard him give a workshop.

Here's his article:
http://www.equip.org/site/c.muI1LaMNJrE/b.4348589/

He takes each verse the conditionalists use and shows how they are wrong.

Also, there is no second chance after death.

 

[BobRyan]

1. In Matt 10:28 God says that he is the one that "destroys both body and soul" in fiery hell. In the book of Jude we are told that Soddom and Gomorrah are examples of the destruction and punishment by "eternal fire".

2. The fire and brimstone at the 2nd death are "real" and the "sould and body" destroyed there in what Rev 20 calls "the second death" are real.

3. However there is no "some people burn for eternity" in the Bible.

They simply suffer the 2nd death "fire and brimestone" judgment seen in Rev 20 and are "destroyed BOTH body AND soul" Matt 10:28.

4. As Rev 14:10 points out about the fire and brimstone judgment of the wicked - it all takes place "IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb and of his holy ones".

5. After that event is over - Rev 21 tells us "there will be no more tears".

6. And of course - there is no such thing as Christ ever going to hades to preach the gospel to dead people so that after living in this life -- they have yet another opportunity to be saved. As Heb 9 points out "It is appointed unto man once to die and then comes judgment" not "and then comes another chance to accept the gospel".

in Christ,

Bob