Interpretation of 1 Jn 2:1-2

[HankD]

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/appendix_04.htm

In the fourth place, when John added, "And not for ours only, but also for the whole world", he signified that Christ was the propitiation for the sins of Gentile believers too, for, as previously shown, "the world" is a term contrasted from Israel. This interpretation is unequivocally established by a careful comparison of 1 John 2:2 with John 11:51,52, which is a strictly parallel passage: "And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also He should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad". Here Caiaphas, under inspiration, made known for whom Jesus should "die". Notice now the correspondency of his prophecy with this declaration of John’s:



1 John 2:2
John 11:51, 52

"He is the propitiation for our (believing Israelites) sins".
"He prophesied that Jesus should die for that) nation".

"And not for ours only".
"And not for that nation only".

"But also for the whole world"— That is, Gentile believers scattered throughout the) earth.
"He should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad".




In the fifth place, the above interpretation is confirmed by the fact that no other is consistent or intelligible. If the "whole world" signifies the whole human race, then the first clause and the "also" in the second clause are absolutely meaningless. If Christ is the propitiation for everybody, it would be idle tautology to say, first, "He is the propitiation for our sins and also for everybody". There could be no "also" if He is the propitiation for the entire human family. Had the apostle meant to affirm that Christ is a universal propitiation he had omitted the first clause of verse 2, and simply said, "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world." Confirmatory of "not for ours (Jewish believers) only, but also for the whole world"—Gentile believers, too; compare John 10:16; 17:20.

In the sixth place, our definition of "the whole world" is in perfect accord with other passages in the New Testament. For example: "Whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the Gospel; which is come unto you, as it is in all the world" (Col. 1:5, 6). Does "all the world" here mean, absolutely and unqualifiedly, all mankind? Had all the human family heard the Gospel? No; the apostle’s obvious meaning is that, the Gospel, instead of being confined to the land of Judea, had gone abroad, without restraint, into Gentile lands. So in Romans 1:8: "First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world". The apostle is here referring to the faith of these Roman saints being spoken of in a way of commendation. But certainly all mankind did not so speak of their faith! It was the whole world of believers that he was referring to! In Revelation 12:9 we read of Satan "which deceiveth the whole world". But again this expression cannot be understood as a universal one, for Matthew 24:24 tells us that Satan does not and cannot "deceive" God’s elect. Here it is "the whole world" of unbelievers.

In the seventh place, to insist that "the whole world" in 1 John 2:2 signifies the entire human race is to undermine the very foundations of our faith. If Christ is the propitiation for those that are lost equally as much as for those that are saved, then what assurance have we that believers too may not be lost? If Christ is the propitiation for those now in hell, what guarantee have I that I may not end in hell? The blood-shedding of the incarnate Son of God is the only thing which can keep any one out of hell, and if many for whom that precious blood made propitiation are now in the awful place of the damned, then may not that blood prove inefficacious for me! Away with such a God-dishonoring thought.

However men may quibble and wrest the Scriptures, one thing is certain: The Atonement is no failure. God will not allow that precious and costly sacrifice to fail in accomplishing, completely, that which it was designed to effect. Not a drop of that holy blood was shed in vain. In the last great Day there shall stand forth no disappointed and defeated Saviour, but One who "shall see of the travail of His soul and be satisfied" (Isa. 53:11). These are not our words, but the infallible assertion of Him who declares, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure" (Isa. 64:10). Upon this impregnable rock we take our stand. Let others rest on the sands of human speculation and twentieth-century theorizing if they wish. That is their business. But to God they will yet have to render an account. For our part we had rather be railed at as a narrow-minded, out-of-date, hyper-Calvinist, than be found repudiating God’s truth by reducing the Divinely-efficacious atonement to a mere fiction.

Just a reminder:

Nowhere in the First epistle of John are the words "Israel' or "jews' or derivatives of those words.

While we find these words in the Gospel of john they are not found in his First epistle.

Secondly, the second use of the phrase "the whole world" in the First Epistle does not bear up to your definition pointing to Israel and the Gentiles:

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.​

Here the phrase is used concerning "we" (the children of God) as opposed to the world of the unregenerate.​

Thirdly the word "propitiation" while applied to the children of God can also be applied to the whole world as the word means "satisfaction" or "appeasment" in regards to the "sin of the world".​

The Father is "satisfied" "appeased" by the blood of the cross to allow even mortal life to all men in order to make reconciliation possible, though all are alienated from Him while in the flesh and we come into this world with His wrath hanging over us.​

Otherwise we would have to come into the world in the regenerated state.​

Colossians 1
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.​

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

Propitiation and reconciliation are two distinct entities.​

All who are in the world are under His propitiation from the foundation of the world lest the human family perish immediately under the wrath of God.​

One day the offer of eternal life made possible by this propitiation through His blood will be withdrawn, then the appeasement will cease and His wrath will fall unimpeded upon the unregenerate.​

KJV John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.​

NIV John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."​

HankD​

 

[percho]

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does the preceding imply that the Atonement will apply to different ones at different times?

What part of Israel do you think are blinded?

 

[Iconoclast]

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Does the preceding imply that the Atonement will apply to different ones at different times?

What part of Israel do you think are blinded?

Percho,
God has always preserved an elect remnant among the nation of Israel.
You are on the right track.here is an example; Isa1:9

9Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

God has an eternal plan to save a multitude of people. That multitude are those whom God elected.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

8Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[ituttut]

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Sovereignty/appendix_04.htm

In the fourth place, when John added, "And not for ours only, but also for the whole world", he signified that Christ was the propitiation for the sins of Gentile believers too, for, as previously shown, "the world" is a term contrasted from Israel.[/QUOTE]
Very great insight Iconoclas. This dispensationalist bent is right on target for the verses in question, "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world", I John 2:1-2.

I find this to be clear evidence that John, as well a Peter had read all the Epistles of Paul, and talked with him. These two Apostles backed Paul to the hilt, allowing the gospel of Grace through faith, and the Body of Christ to be understood by both Jew and Gentile.

 

[Iconoclast]

Allan you said this the other day;

It is funny he tried to state that 'man' was not in the original but anyone who understanding the Greek here would know that the intent of the writer when speaking of Christ dieing for "Every" related specifically to mankind and not animals or any other such assumptions one might choose to insert.

It is also interesting to note that he states that Christ died in order to bring many sons into the Kingdom.. but fails to address why the scripture doesn't state Christ died to bring ALL the sons but instead uses a term that does not equate to ALL but some or many sons - of the 'all'.

IN many of your posts you like to speak about the context...it will exactly answer your questions.

Heb.2:9- 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham16

The seed of Abraham.......not the seed of Adam.
the descriptions in bold print are describing the "seed" of Abraham.

like this;

8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Why did salvation come?
Who are the lost that Jesus came to save? ezk34

 

[Iconoclast]

Allan,
you said;

The real issue that has to be figured out by those of the reformed faith is how come people for whom Christ did not die are condemned for not believing in something that was never done for them or with them in mind?

all are condemned because of sin,,,justly

all who remain in adam die going into second death.

the elect while born dead in adam

and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

,God set His love upon in eternity past, drawing them saving into Christ

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

saving faith is the gift of God

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[percho]

Iconoclast

Does the preceding imply that the Atonement will apply to different ones at different times? I don't want to misunderstand you, Is this what I am on the right track on?

I would also be interested in what part of Israel you think have been blinded?

All Israel shall be saved. Does that apply to those blinded also?

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast

Does the preceding imply that the Atonement will apply to different ones at different times? I don't want to misunderstand you, Is this what I am on the right track on?

I would also be interested in what part of Israel you think have been blinded?

All Israel shall be saved. Does that apply to those blinded also?

Those blinded remain blinded, they are the branches broken off in unbelief.
romans 11.
Jesus: is the true Israel. All believers,jew and gentile are the Israel of God.
Isa/49:1-8.

The atonement is made only for them,

 

[percho]

Those blinded remain blinded, they are the branches broken off in unbelief.
romans 11.
Jesus: is the true Israel. All believers,jew and gentile are the Israel of God.
Isa/49:1-8.

The atonement is made only for them,

how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

This appears to me the ones blinded will or could be graffed back in.

 

[Allan]

Allan you said this the other day;


IN many of your posts you like to speak about the context...it will exactly answer your questions.

I noted that you didn't actually interact with what I said about the verses your author gave and mine regarding context

Heb.2:9- 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham16

The seed of Abraham.......not the seed of Adam.
the descriptions in bold print are describing the "seed" of Abraham.

Without trying to sound like I am putting you down... cause I am not.. go back to context and map this out. You "SEEM" to be ignoring it.
For whom does verse 9 state Jesus tasted death?

And then it continues on in that it was only right that the He through suffering was made perfect (or a perfect leader- thus captain) to bring many sons to glory being the captain of their salvation...
Next.. Both the sanctifier and those who are sanctified are one, and as such calls us brethren.

NOTE- Thus far this does not in ANY sense state His death was ONLY for some.. In fact, the very contrary is true it states specifically that he tasted death for every man. It then goes on identifying those who are His as being one with Him through that death.

And when you get to verse 14..it speaks to the fact of why he become a man. NOTE HERE - that it is changing somewhat what is being discussed. That he became a man.. thus it regards his humanity.
Verse 15 That he might free those who, because their bondage [in/to sin], feared death
Verse 16 states He did not take on the nature of angels but took on him (became) the seed of Abraham..

This is NOT referring to spiritualized Israel but context dictates this is referring to the same thing John does in that He/Jesus clothed himself in flesh.. and a specific flesh at that.. Notice we was not born a Greek or any other nationality.. and that was because of what Romans 9 states was is part of National Israels blessing (specifically 9:5).. God claimed them as His His people (in general), covenanted with them, gave them His Word, His promises which includes the coming Messiah through the Jewish people..

Who are the lost that Jesus came to save? ezk34

According to context.. Israel is the Flock which God is referring to. (vs 2)

 

[Allan]

Allan,
you said;


all are condemned because of sin,,,justly

While it is true.. to what extent was we saying.. just being conceived is damnable?

What about verses like these:

2Th 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,

2Th 2:12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Note why scripture here states they are condemned.. not sin, in and of itself but for not believing/receiving Him

We find the same thing over in John in which John states those who believe are not condemned but those who do not believe are condemned already.

I'm not saying sin doesn't condemn people but here we have a qualifier regarding condemnation in relation to sin.

saving faith is the gift of God

Sorry no.. Neither the Greek nor the context states this.. You can go back and look for Greek discussions on this (I have participated in many) and you will find there is not solid evidence for such a statement in connection with 'that' verse. Maybe others but not this one.

 

[ituttut]

Iconoclast

Does the preceding imply that the Atonement will apply to different ones at different times? I don't want to misunderstand you, Is this what I am on the right track on?

I would also be interested in what part of Israel you think have been blinded?

All Israel shall be saved. Does that apply to those blinded also?

The Word to me implies all Israel will be saved, i.e. those that believe on Jesus Christ, for if they do not accept their redeemer, how can they be of Israel? A true Israelite believes God, but the others are only of the Flesh.

 

[webdog]

In the fourth place, when John added, "And not for ours only, but also for the whole world", he signified that Christ was the propitiation for the sins of Gentile believers too, for, as previously shown, "the world" is a term contrasted from Israel.

In context of John's writing...can you support this strictly with his use of "whole world"?

 

[ituttut]

In context of John's writing...can you support this strictly with his use of "whole world"?

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world", I John 2:1-2.

I can only speaking for myself, agreeing with the comment posted by Iconoclast, on the first page.We all know John was an Apostle to the Jew, and we can see that in I John when he writes in the above "he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only". We know the Jew had no relations with Gentiles (excepting proselytes). Therefore they were not of the rest of the world.

Another addition to the Gospel was added at the Happening on Damascus Road. John first became aware of this addition when the Apostles in Jerusalem gave Peter the third degree, because he dared to attempt to preach the gospel of the Jew to a Gentile (Acts 10). Jesus Christ sent Peter to Cornelius, but we see He would not allow him to preach the Gospel intended only for the Jew. Peter had the best defense in the world (Acts 11:17-18). The Apostles in Jerusalem now knew what Jesus Christ from heaven was revealing to His only Apostle to the Gentiles, the Grace Commission of salvation through faith, with out the works of man. Paul explains to us, and the Apostles in Jerusalem, the mystery hidden from man since the world began (Romans 16:25).

Jesus could not tell us, nor any other man about John 3:16 until it was inspired in John by the Holy Sprite to write it.

 

[webdog]

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world", I John 2:1-2.

I can only speaking for myself, agreeing with the comment posted by Iconoclast, on the first page.We all know John was an Apostle to the Jew, and we can see that in I John when he writes in the above "he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only". We know the Jew had no relations with Gentiles (excepting proselytes). Therefore they were not of the rest of the world.

Another addition to the Gospel was added at the Happening on Damascus Road. John first became aware of this addition when the Apostles in Jerusalem gave Peter the third degree, because he dared to attempt to preach the gospel of the Jew to a Gentile (Acts 10). Jesus Christ sent Peter to Cornelius, but we see He would not allow him to preach the Gospel intended only for the Jew. Peter had the best defense in the world (Acts 11:17-18). The Apostles in Jerusalem now knew what Jesus Christ from heaven was revealing to His only Apostle to the Gentiles, the Grace Commission of salvation through faith, with out the works of man. Paul explains to us, and the Apostles in Jerusalem, the mystery hidden from man since the world began (Romans 16:25).

Jesus could not tell us, nor any other man about John 3:16 until it was inspired in John by the Holy Sprite to write it.

Not quite what I was looking for

Can you show us John's usage of "whole world" in all of his letters and his intention of that phrase in his writings?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Not quite what I was looking for

Can you show us John's usage of "whole world" in all of his letters and his intention of that phrase in his writings?

Now that IS FUNNY? You gotta laugh.....Oh God Bless it! LOL

 

[webdog]

Now that IS FUNNY? You gotta laugh.....Oh God Bless it! LOL

Not sure what was funny about that...but I'm glad you were amused

 

[ituttut]

Not quite what I was looking for

Can you show us John's usage of "whole world" in all of his letters and his intention of that phrase in his writings?

Are you looking for something outside of Scripture? I can't help you there. Sorry

 

[webdog]

Are you looking for something outside of Scripture? I can't help you there. Sorry

No...from Scripture...show me each time John uses "whole world" and the context of THAT phrase, and then reconcile that with your use of "whole world" in this passage.

 

[zrs6v4]

It is 2 simple questions regarding the Law referencing the Sacrifice of Atonement -
1. Whom was it made 'for'?
2. Did it single out a group from within that group or was it for all in that group?

This is a very interesting observation that I never considered.

1. Answer:The atonement in the OT was made for Israel.
2. Answer: It was made for all of Israel.

The Atonement of the OT was not able to pay for sin and was a shadow of Jesus ultimate atonement that was the authentic atonement for all time.

I think that is an awesome observation question yet, to me, it holds no weight because it is an assumption that God meant that to be a direct similarity with Jesus atonement for the whole world (meaning every person).

The issue of the of the atonement is to satisfy the justice of God. unless Jesus' atonement was a general atonement and was not to be made for everyone's individual specific sins perfectly to satisfy a perfect judging God then I can't fathom how God would punish both Hitler and the 15 year old person for the same single sin- rejection of Jesus. Further I still haven't had a good response to how God laid the sins of a person in hell on Jesus and also on the person in hell. It is a contradiction to God's righteous judgment and throws off the scales.