Interview with ARCHBISHOP CARLO MARIA VIGANÒ APOSTOLIC NUNCIO

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Part 2


My Opinion and a Little on the End Times

Ok, this is my opinion: I believe the Catholic Church was infiltrated in the 1920’s-1950’s by communism (just like the effects of what is going on in our country right now. Sen. Joe McCarthy was right) and it’s main tool was Modernism. Communism is a branch of Freemasonry. In addition, through communism, the seminaries were infiltrated with homosexual seminarians. Probably McCarrick was one of them. All of this can be backed up.

Protestantism is not an alternative

Protestantism leads to apostasy and was really compromised when it was founded so it’s NOT an alternative. This is when the apostasy started. Heresy leads to apostasy. Ultimately, Protestantism leads to the Antichrist. You could say Protestantism, as a heretical movement, was divided again in the late 1800’s during the Third Great Awakening. This is when modernism rose up in the mainline protestant denominations. Besides all this there is absolutely NO unity of doctrine in protestantism. Using cause and effect I believe the Protestant Revolution of 1517 caused Communism in 1917.

Catholic Traditionalists like to say this about the present age in the church:

1517 Anticurch (Luther)
1717 Antistate (modern freemasonry founded)
1917 Antichrist (Communism)

The last step of this apostasy that started in 1517 (start of the 5th Age of the church - Fr. Holzhauser) is its entrance into the Catholic Church and it is called Modernism as I mentioned above. This is what I believe we are seeing in the Catholic Church now and it has reached the highest levels in the upper clergy. Modernism was condemned by Pope St. Pius X in 1907 but it went underground and resurfaced later. I don’t want to go too far into this and I may do a thread on it in the future. What does all this mean? It means we could be in the End Times. If I put a date on a major change in the Church in the near future, I would put it at 2029 and this date has to do with Fatima and ties into the Sacred Heart Devotion as well. There could be massive changes between now and then but by 2029 things will happen. Maybe a split? Fulfillment of Fatima? I may be very wrong on all this too! This is private prophecy and I may talk about it later. All the major private prophecies point to now as the end times. That’s what many think. I think so too but who knows? If enough people did more penance this timeline of the end times could be pushed back. As I said I think we are at the end of the Fifth Age of the church. The Era of Peace is the sixth Age and most think it’s very short (25-40 years). I think it could be short or long like around a thousand years but not an exact thousand years. Then comes the Final battle in the Seventh Age. Protestantism caused everything you are seeing right now in the country and the world and is filled with heresies so there should be no gloating over the Catholic Church having problems. You should be concerned. The Catholic Church is holding back the Antichrist (2 Thess 2:6). The heresies of Modernism entering the Catholic Church is simply just the last step towards the end.

Recommended Books

The Book of Destiny by Fr Herman Bernard Kramer (pub 1955)
The Apocalypse of St. John by Fr Sylvester Berry (pub 1921)

These two books have had the most influence on me concerning prophecy. Especially Fr Kramer’s book. Fr Kramer’s book was republished by Tan Books in recent years but it’s on the internet free. Both of them are. Generally I base some of this post on them. These books passed the censors of the Catholic Chuch including the 1944 censor concerning the thousand year reign. I may do a thread on them soon.

Some may disagree with me here but I contend that Baptists are not Protestants. The history of my Christian faith has nothing to do with any Catholic institutions and existed before Catholics. We Baptists never protested the sins of that church because we existed (with our beliefs) prior to you Catholics, calvinists, Lutherans, and all Reformers.

 

[LaGrange]

Some may disagree with me here but I contend that Baptists are not Protestants. The history of my Christian faith has nothing to do with any Catholic institutions and existed before Catholics. We Baptists never protested the sins of that church because we existed (with our beliefs) prior to you Catholics, calvinists, Lutherans, and all Reformers.

Ok. Name one leader in this church?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ok. Name one leader in this church?

jesus

 

[LaGrange]

jesus

Ok. I knew you would say that. It’s you and Jesus and for the last two thousand years there was nothing - no church even though scripture speaks of the church.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

sacramental salvation theology is the big heresy that caused the reformation!

Seems like the Catholics could add the Mormon book of Nephi to their Apocrypha -
“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:23)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ok. I knew you would say that. It’s you and Jesus and for the last two thousand years there was nothing - no church even though scripture speaks of the church.

The church they speak of is a New Testament institution made for the study and worship of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We have been there brother since Christ walked the earth and influenced by John the Baptist, Paul & the apostles. Our elders, mostly scripturally trained men, serve to help educate and raise up future generations of Gods sheep. We emphasize John 3:1-21 (you must be born again) and (For God so loved the world). I especially see the scripture John 3:19-21 as meaningful
and spells out a judgement of those who do not chose the Light and instead prefer darkness.

in short, we are the congregation of John 3:7 … the “born from above”

therefore God has not abandoned us rather He has re-established us into His family… and I know that it is difficult for a Catholic to understand it. And because of this, we do not live in fear for we are the Children of God.

Now I see myself personally as a Radical Christian (1 who seeks the truth in all things conserving God) and I have recently aligned myself with Primitive Baptists. I can suggest a pastor who is very good if you wish to explore further… your choice. But I’m not going back to the RCC or the Orthodox Church as much as I respect my individual roots… they have proven themselves wicked to the detriment of many and they prove themselves out with Pope Francis. Note I also have gone thru the Catholic grooming system, replete with Nuns & Priests serving as my teachers. I would and did not repeat that mistake with my children and grandchild. And I animately refuse to expose them to Protestantism as I find them mostly inadequate. Catholicism must, once and for all irradiate all forms of abuse and publicly make a statement issuing sincere purging of pedofile priests and nuns who violate. Just last week they finally arrested a priest who has been abusing children and last year removed a priest from my old parish… clearly it’s not over. I would not have my son and grandson exposed to such perversion & hypocrisy.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Seems like the Catholics could add the Mormon book of Nephi to their Apocrypha -
“For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” (2 Nephi 25:23)

It is hard for some to break out of that mold, especially if you are raised up in it. It takes a heart of purity to even begin that journey…. Then a sincere reading of sacred scripture just as a beginning point. Luther tried to reform the mess but to no avail, all he did is replicate the RCC in images he approved of. Episcopal & Methodists did likewise, as did the Presbyterians (check out the Presbyterian Church USA) . No surprise that the Mormons went in a screwy direction.

 

[LaGrange]

The church they speak of is a New Testament institution made for the study and worship of God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. We have been there brother since Christ walked the earth and influenced by John the Baptist, Paul & the apostles

My Comment: You know EWF, in order for Catholics to take you serious on this point you’ll have to come up with a leader’s name after Jesus Christ and His apostles. Think about this: How do you know there was somebody teaching what you believe, that were influenced by John the Baptist, Paul and the Apostles, after they died? Where were these people in the 3rd century? 5th century? 9th century? Does it matter? I’m sure to you it doesn’t. Why not?

Our elders, mostly scripturally trained men, serve to help educate and raise up future generations of Gods sheep. We emphasize John 3:1-21 (you must be born again) and (For God so loved the world). I especially see the scripture John 3:19-21 as meaningful
and spells out a judgement of those who do not chose the Light and instead prefer darkness.

in short, we are the congregation of John 3:7 … the “born from above”

therefore God has not abandoned us rather He has re-established us into His family… and I know that it is difficult for a Catholic to understand it.

My Comment: It’s not hard to understand but it’s just that it’s hard to conceive without a church with authority (Matt 18:17). We’re the congregation of 1 Tim 3:15, Matt 16:18-19, Matt 18:17-18 and Matt 28:19-20. My experience with Protestantism (this includes the Primitive Baptist Church) is that, besides 40,000+ denominations with all kinds opposing beliefs and all claiming to be based in scripture, every person in the pew believes something different too! So it’s not just 40,000+ denominations but every person in the SAME denomination believing something different! Protestants jump up and down and act like they are mad and argue doctrine like it’s really important but then tolerate zillions of different interpretations. We use to call this Indifferentism. It’s crazy!

And because of this, we do not live in fear for we are the Children of God.

Now I see myself personally as a Radical Christian (1 who seeks the truth in all things conserving God) and I have recently aligned myself with Primitive Baptists. I can suggest a pastor who is very good if you wish to explore further… your choice

My Comment: I found this on a Primitive Baptist Website:
“1. What is the basic difference between Primitive Baptists and other religious societies?
The basic difference is that Primitive Baptists believe in salvation by grace. There are really only two positions that a person can occupy on this matter. One is that salvation is by grace, and the other is that salvation is by works. It cannot be a combination of the two. A person may say that he believes in salvation by grace, but if he sets forth any act of man's will, such as repentance, faith, baptism, or hearing the gospel, as a condition for obtaining it, then this position must be put on the works side. Primitive Baptists believe that salvation is of the Lord, that it is by His grace, and that nothing needs to be added to it.”

My Comment: Definitely Reformed. I’ve studied Calvinism. Are you familiar with James White? I’ve watched a lot of James White vs Leighton Flowers Videos. There’s a ton of them! Lol

(Starting here I had trouble with the program so I copied what you said)

You said: But I’m not going back to the RCC or the Orthodox Church as much as I respect my individual roots… they have proven themselves wicked to the detriment of many and they prove themselves out with Pope Francis. Note I also have gone thru the Catholic grooming system, replete with Nuns & Priests serving as my teachers. I would and did not repeat that mistake with my children and grandchild.

My Comment: I don’t know how long it’s been since you left the Catholic Church but here’s my question:
When you discover a scandal in the “Primitive Baptist Church” are you going to quit going to all Baptist Churches? If you are consistent then one scandal near you in the Baptist Church should cause you to never go to another Baptist Church. I know the answer is no. This is why it’s hard to believe that you left the Catholic Church because of the scandals.

You said: And I animately refuse to expose them to Protestantism as I find them mostly inadequate.

My Comment: Why did you choose the Primitive Baptist Church over all the rest? I read what you said but is that it? Why not the regular Baptist Church? I’m not sure what you mean by Protestantism?


You said: Catholicism must, once and for all irradiate all forms of abuse and publicly make a statement issuing sincere purging of pedofile priests and nuns who violate. Just last week they finally arrested a priest who has been abusing children and last year removed a priest from my old parish… clearly it’s not over. I would not have my son and grandson exposed to such perversion & hypocrisy.

My Comment: They’ve done this in the lower clergy. We knew the safeguards went into effect because we all were affected by them. In 2002 when the scandals hit, we all thought it was taken care of back then until the Cardinal McCarrick scandal hit in 2018. Then it was discovered that the upper clergy didn’t put in safeguards to fix the problem there. You may have had a priest guilty of abuse at your former parish but, to my knowledge, the problem has been greatly diminished in the lower clergy. The Catholic Church isn’t the only church who had these problems either. I’m sure there have been abuses in the Primitive Baptist Church too. There sure are in the Baptist Church in general. I heard that the abuses in the Catholic Clergy, percentage-wise, is lower than almost all other institutions. We have many holy men in the priesthood.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

My experience with Protestantism (this includes the Primitive Baptist Church) is that, besides 40,000+ denominations with all kinds opposing beliefs and all claiming to be based in scripture, every person in the pew believes something different too! So it’s not just 40,000+ denominations but every person in the SAME denomination believing something different! Protestants jump up and down and act like they are mad and argue doctrine like it’s really important but then tolerate zillions of different interpretations. We use to call this Indifferentism. It’s crazy!

Secondary differences are irrelevant as to whether or not the gospel is correct, which Rome has wrong. In Rome's view why did Christ die, and how is one saved? Because it seems more or less that one's salvation in the church of Rome depends more on yourself than it does on the finished and perfect work of Christ.

 

[LaGrange]

Secondary differences are irrelevant as to whether or not the gospel is correct, which Rome has wrong. In Rome's view why did Christ die, and how is one saved? Because it seems more or less that one's salvation in the church of Rome depends more on yourself than it does on the finished and perfect work of Christ.

Hi 5 Point Gillinist,

My Comment: Maybe I came on too strong there but it’s frustrating to see Catholic Bashing all the time and it’s almost always not what we believe. You’re doing the same thing. I saw your post on the Mormon Book and in this post too. What you are saying is that Catholics believe they can work their way to heaven by themselves. You said it “seems” like we believe this. You don’t sound too sure. You think we are Pelagian or semi-Pelagian. Am I right?

My Challenge

If this is what you believe, I will give you the same challenge that I gave EWF: Look up what theology you disagree with in an official Catholic Source, copy it out of that source and give me the source location. Then give me a paragraph or two on why it’s wrong and I’ll be glad to discuss it with you.

OR you can do this

I’ve done the work for you but I want you to look it up:

1. Council of Trent - Search in Google “Council of Trent 33 Canons on Justification”. Then go to the very first canon. Let me know what it says.

2. Catechism of the Catholic Church - Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (on the internet) and then go to paragraph #2008 (merit). Look in the glossary at the definition of Merit too. Also, look at paragraph #1996 to do with grace and look at paragraph #1993 to do with Justification. There are more examples.

3. Denziger’s (Denziger’s has two numbering systems so I will give you both numbers) - Trent: #811 (1551), Council of Orange: 192 (389), 187 (384), 176 (373), 191 (388), 180 (377). You can read all of those at the Council of Orange. I’ll explain any you don’t understand if you want me to.

Maybe you can comment on these. These sources are all on the internet.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hi 5 Point Gillinist,

My Comment: Maybe I came on too strong there but it’s frustrating to see Catholic Bashing all the time and it’s almost always not what we believe. You’re doing the same thing. I saw your post on the Mormon Book and in this post too. What you are saying is that Catholics believe they can work their way to heaven by themselves. You said it “seems” like we believe this. You don’t sound too sure. You think we are Pelagian or semi-Pelagian. Am I right?

My Challenge

If this is what you believe, I will give you the same challenge that I gave EWF: Look up what theology you disagree with in an official Catholic Source, copy it out of that source and give me the source location. Then give me a paragraph or two on why it’s wrong and I’ll be glad to discuss it with you.

OR you can do this

I’ve done the work for you but I want you to look it up:

1. Council of Trent - Search in Google “Council of Trent 33 Canons on Justification”. Then go to the very first canon. Let me know what it says.

2. Catechism of the Catholic Church - Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (on the internet) and then go to paragraph #2008 (merit). Look in the glossary at the definition of Merit too. Also, look at paragraph #1996 to do with grace and look at paragraph #1993 to do with Justification. There are more examples.

3. Denziger’s (Denziger’s has two numbering systems so I will give you both numbers) - Trent: #811 (1551), Council of Orange: 192 (389), 187 (384), 176 (373), 191 (388), 180 (377). You can read all of those at the Council of Orange. I’ll explain any you don’t understand if you want me to.

Maybe you can comment on these. These sources are all on the internet.

Hi 5 Point Gillinist,

My Comment: Maybe I came on too strong there but it’s frustrating to see Catholic Bashing all the time and it’s almost always not what we believe. You’re doing the same thing. I saw your post on the Mormon Book and in this post too. What you are saying is that Catholics believe they can work their way to heaven by themselves. You said it “seems” like we believe this. You don’t sound too sure. You think we are Pelagian or semi-Pelagian. Am I right?

My Challenge

If this is what you believe, I will give you the same challenge that I gave EWF: Look up what theology you disagree with in an official Catholic Source, copy it out of that source and give me the source location. Then give me a paragraph or two on why it’s wrong and I’ll be glad to discuss it with you.

OR you can do this

I’ve done the work for you but I want you to look it up:

1. Council of Trent - Search in Google “Council of Trent 33 Canons on Justification”. Then go to the very first canon. Let me know what it says.

2. Catechism of the Catholic Church - Go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (on the internet) and then go to paragraph #2008 (merit). Look in the glossary at the definition of Merit too. Also, look at paragraph #1996 to do with grace and look at paragraph #1993 to do with Justification. There are more examples.

3. Denziger’s (Denziger’s has two numbering systems so I will give you both numbers) - Trent: #811 (1551), Council of Orange: 192 (389), 187 (384), 176 (373), 191 (388), 180 (377). You can read all of those at the Council of Orange. I’ll explain any you don’t understand if you want me to.

Maybe you can comment on these. These sources are all on the internet.

Why would anyone choose to have a dialog with a Catholic. Catholics have persecuted other Christians to execution. That should be enough proof to substantiate any defense you could attempt to defend your false faith. BTW, I know of no pedofile incident inside the Primitive Baptist church…ever. We do not believe in pairing our children with people other than their parents to teach our children so unless the parents are sick individuals… . And this, btw was how it was done by the RCC prior to Vatican 2. Then it was our parents we sat with at church, prayed with at home, learned from at holiday days. By being a Primitive Baptist, I once again find a church institution that encourages this family and study dynamic..

One other thing, we do not claim supremacy as the one and only Christian church….that’s farcical for a Roman Catholic especially to say with your history of murder & child abuse don’t you think. Honestly, I would be surprised to see any Catholic ( Roman & Orthodox) who could provide evidence testimony of being born anew. Instead you just have this 7 sacrament nonsense that I’ve yet to hear any Catholic justify through scripture.

 

[37818]

Sacred scripture clearly teaches sacramental theology.

There are no Sacraments in Holy Scriptures.

 

[LaGrange]

Why would anyone choose to have a dialog with a Catholic. Catholics have persecuted other Christians to execution. That should be enough proof to substantiate any defense you could attempt to defend your false faith. BTW, I know of no pedofile incident inside the Primitive Baptist church…ever. We do not believe in pairing our children with people other than their parents to teach our children so unless the parents are sick individuals… . And this, btw was how it was done by the RCC prior to Vatican 2. Then it was our parents we sat with at church, prayed with at home, learned from at holiday days. By being a Primitive Baptist, I once again find a church institution that encourages this family and study dynamic..

One other thing, we do not claim supremacy as the one and only Christian church….that’s farcical for a Roman Catholic especially to say with your history of murder & child abuse don’t you think. Honestly, I would be surprised to see any Catholic ( Roman & Orthodox) who could provide evidence testimony of being born anew. Instead you just have this 7 sacrament nonsense that I’ve yet to hear any Catholic justify through scripture.

Hi EWF,

My Comment: I will do a thread on Baptism soon. How about that? There is no problem doing it. I thought that if you had something specific right now we could discuss it. Otherwise, it will have to wait. Actually I’m working on a new thread on the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. That’s next.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

As I’ve said, I consider myself a Radical Christian so I also believe in Radical Grace…it blows where it pleases. You hear it’s sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

Again see John 3:1-21 for the full context of the scripture.

Again, simply tell us your testimony of your experience with God through the Holy Ghost that we may know you truly walk with the Lord. Many think you can’t really walk in the Lords Grace without being born of the Spirit, so what’s your experience as an RC? Are RC’s born of the Spirit? And how does that work when your busy jumping the hoops of the seven sacraments?

Oh and my father who was a Protestant (sort a) had this prayer posted on the kitchen wall that I like but do not always pay attention to… see if you know it

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope. Where there is darkness, light. And where there is sadness, joy.

There is a note in the complete body of the prayer that states … oh Divine Master, grant that I might be understood, as to understand.

 

[Walter]

Some may disagree with me here but I contend that Baptists are not Protestants. The history of my Christian faith has nothing to do with any Catholic institutions and existed before Catholics. We Baptists never protested the sins of that church because we existed (with our beliefs) prior to you Catholics, calvinists, Lutherans, and all Reformers.

Hogwash!!! I have posted this before, but it gest ignored every time BECAUSE it does not support your MYTH.


"Thankfully intellectually honest Baptists, such as James McGoldrick who was once himself a believer in Baptist successionism are conceding that this “trail of blood” view is, frankly, bogus. McGoldrick writes:

Extensive graduate study and independent investigation of church history has, however, convinced [the author] that the view he once held so dear has not been, and cannot be, verified. On the contrary, surviving primary documents render the successionist view untenable. . . . Although free church groups in ancient and medieval times sometimes promoted doctrines and practices agreeable to modern Baptists, when judged by standards now acknowledged as baptistic, not one of them merits recognition as a Baptist church. Baptists arose in the 17th century in Holland and England. They are Protestants, heirs of the reformers. (Baptist Successionism: A Crucial Question in Baptist History [1994], 1–2)

I welcome you to prove this historian wrong.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

@Walter What you term "The Trail of Blood" was termed the Chain Link Theory by my Baptist History teacher the late Richard Weeks at MBBC. He held and taught the Spiritual Kinship Theory.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

@Walter What you term "The Trail of Blood" was termed the Chain Link Theory by my Baptist History teacher the late Richard Weeks at MBBC. He held and taught the Spiritual Kinship Theory.

And it is prevalent among the teachings of my Welsh Baptist ancestors. It’s not the Trail of Blood theory (never heard that before) but it is the truth handed down from one generation to the next… just ask Evan Davies and the tribe.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Wonder if anyone denies the persecutions of Baptists by both Roman Catholics & Protestant Reformers? This sinful evil behavior by these Church institutions is both highly documented and easily proven.

Excerpt from Baptist History by J.M. Cramp


Cramp points out not only the persecution of Baptists by the Roman Catholic Church but also by the Reformers. “The Baptists of the sixteenth century, generally, were a goodly, upright, honourable race. They hated no man. But all men hated them. And why? Because they testified against the abominations of the times, and wished to accomplish changes which would indeed have revolutionized society, because it was constructed on anti-Christian principles, but which were in accordance with the Word of God. An outcry was raised against them, as if they were ‘the offscouring of all things,’ and their blood was poured out like water. Even the Reformers wrote and acted against them. The writers of that age searched out the most degrading and insulting epithets that the language afforded, and applied them with malignant gratification. Latimer speaks of the ‘pernicious’ and ‘devilish’ opinions of the Baptists. Hooper calls those opinions ‘damnable.’ Bacon inveighs against the ‘wicked,’ ‘apish Anabaptists,’ ‘foxish hypocrites,’ that ‘damnable sect,’ ‘liars,’ ‘bloody murderers both of soul and body,’ whose religious system he denounces as a ‘pestiferous plague,’ with many other foul-mouthed expressions as ‘obstinate,’ ‘rebellious,’ ‘brain-sick,’ ‘frantic,’ ‘filthy knaves.’ Zuingli speaks of the ‘pestiferous seed of their doctrine,’ their ‘hypocritical humility,’ their speech, ‘more bitter than gall.’ But enough of this. These men could, notwithstanding all, appeal to those who witnessed their sufferings, and boldly declare, with the axe or the stake in view, none venturing to contradict, that they were not put to death for any evil deeds, but solely for the sake of the Gospel.”

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

In reality, the Baptists were true martyrs for Christ at the hands of both the RCC & Protestants! So why would we want to be connected to them in any form?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Matthew 16:18. That scripture is taken literally.