Introducing Christian Doctrine by Millard Erickson

Skypair,

I would have to disagree that omnipotence is the same thing as sovereignty.

We cannot confound the attributes and or essence of God, making them all mean the same thing, which would be equivalent to denying them all together.

The Nominalists, said that general terms used to describe God are mere words and formed only in the human mind. And consequently when we speak of different attributes in God, we only use different words for one and the same thing.

 

Why not?

It has alot to do with the truth.

Sorry about that.

 

I believe what you are saying is that there are innumerable truths contained in the thought "all Truth."

I believe what I am trying to do is distinguish between Father and Holy Spirit here. God is all Truth --- the Spirit is the knowledge, emotions, and will under which we would find your "God" attributes and essences.

It would be a similar arrangement as our soul and spirit. The "orientation" of our soul is the overaching truth of our lives which "inform"/guide the activities of our spirits. Of course, the other thing that informs and guides the spirit is the lie -- the flesh. But with righteousness of God in our souls, we have the 1) assurance of heaven and the 2) potential for godly living in an 'untoward generation.'

To use another example -- think about reconciling your checking account like being "reconciled to God." You take the new statement you have from the bank ("the God of truth" enters your life at salvation) and your begin to reconcile all your checks to the statement (in much the same way as you reconcile your thoughts and motives to what God says). Is that good? It takes a long time to reconcile your checkbook but it takes a lifetime and then some (the Bema) for a complete reconciliation of your spirit with "all Truth."

skypair

 

Skypair,
your posts are not improving. If you want to continue in this present discussion please do not do so through feigned personal attacks. Your post citing scripture referring to those who 'ever learn and never come to the knowledge of the truth' is viewed by myself and others as a personal attack on AA.

Please discontinue this course or I will begin to actively monitor your posts to this thread and edit them as needed.

Whether you are in disagreement with what is being stated in this thread is not the question. It is a discussion of differences, not an argumentation to disprove, simply an educational discussion. you can participate in such a discussion, civily.

If not, I will not hesitate to delete any personal attacks as I see them posted. Count this as a warning to yourself and anyone else who would use this particular link to further attacks against other posters.

bro. Dallas:wavey:

 

Dear TinyTim,
I don't know about differences in omnipotence and sovereignty. But I think I understand skypair's example of reconciling the checkbook. We are now reconciled to God, in his view, we do this progressively as we study and grow in knowledge. The fullness of that reconciliation is never realized in this present body which in the flesh remains sinful, thus we are taught to 'let this mind be in us' that was in Christ, at the resurrection, all will be reconciled to a degree that what we as individuals may hold that is not truth will be shown and that which is truth, will be ours, thus, a full reconciliation.

hope that helps,
bro. Dallas:wavey: :wavey:

 

I'm not sure that there is a difference, per se. I think they are two sides of the same coin.

First, the scripture describes God as both absolutely sovereign and absolutely omnipotent. The Isaiah 46 passage I have been quoting says as much.

I think, though, these two concepts cannot be discussed as theoretical and I think they must be discussed only in relation to God, since that is how the Bible relates the concepts.

Rhetoricians will have a field day with this quote, but here goes: God is sovereign because He is omnipotent and He is omnipotent because He is sovereign.

Both attributes are His because He is those things (as revealed in the Bible) by nature.

If I had to choose a "head's up" or primary side of the coin, it would be God's sovereignty. He is absolutely sovereign and does whatever He pleases and, because He is omnipotent, He has every and all power to actually accomplish that which He desires to do.

Many Blessings,

The Archangel

 

Take heart, my friend...it was a valiant attempt. I see the point in your analogy and I think it is a good one. Having said that, I do not think the analogy works where God is concerned (His sovereignty and His omnipotence and as you rightly said, He is responsible to no one). But, where we are concerned, certainly there is (and must be) someone at whom the proverbial buck stops.

Many Blessings,

The Archangel

 

1. In his Christian Theology, 2nd ed., Erickson says, "God's infinity may also be considered in relationship to what is traditionally referred to as the omnipotence of God. By this we mean that God is able to do all things that are proper objects of his power" (p. 302).

2. While Erickson doesn't have a heading treating the Sovereignty of God separately, his thoughts on the sovereignty of God would fit under God's Infinity. Here's what he says about the sovereignty of God:

"He is the Creator and Lord of all things, and consequently he is free to do whatever he wills. He is not subject to or answerable to anyone. Humans are in on position to judge God for what he does"(p. 928).

 

I'll take a stab at the differences between sovereignty and omnipotence. A sovereign... and God being the only true sovereign, could delegate His authority and use His standing as sovereign to cause His subjects to use their power to accomplish any task. A human sovereign or king ( I hate to use the word sovereign, because all humans still have God to answer to) could use the resources at his disposal to be quite powerful.
God, by definition, is completely full of all His attributes. He does not need resources to be completely full of power. He is all powerful in Himself. Omnipotent. God, by definition, is the only true sovereign ( has no one to answer to). So God ( as sovereign) has the ability to use all the resources at His disposal to be all powerful, or He can simply use His attribute of being all powerful ( completely full of power) and rely upon nothing but His omnipotence.
I'm still not sure that is sufficient to describe the difference, yet simularity of sovereign and omnipotence.

 

Here's a question, RB:

Is the omnipotence of God in the service of His Sovereignty?

 

Yes, I think so TC. Because God is sovereign, He has to be completely full of all His attributes. If He had to look anywhere other than Himself to fulfill any of His attributes, would He be sovereign?

 

Its like....Law and Order.

God not only legislates His Law and decrees as a ruling King, He also has the power to enforce His Law and decrees on man and even Judge (yet something else we must talk about) them that do not follow His laws.


Hodge Book 1
pages 407-408

Hodge book 1
pages 441-442

One other thing that should be noted about "power".

Most recognize two types of power found in God. One is the cause or better the 1st cause and the 2nd is the nature order God has setup in nature as law. Or natural and supernatural events. The nature power are laws like gravity set by God once and for all. The power of God in this light is seen as God creating and sustaining the world, and does it as a whole. Supernatural power is seen in supernatural events.

 

Can we ever speak of an attribute of God which precedes all the other attributes?

 

I want to "kick it up a notch"

Pink adds yet another element...supremacy



5. THE SUPREMACY OF GOD