Introducing Christian Doctrine by Millard Erickson

[reformedbeliever]

So do you think God created Adam because He was lonely???

My thoughts exactly Amy. God is perfectly sufficient in Himself. He has no human emotions. He can not be lonely. If He lacked anything, He would be less than God.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Just a question if you all don't mind. Some have complained about Erickson's Theology because he is non-commital and expresses several points of view. My question is does his book on Bible doctrine follow the same pattern or is it more in line with calvinism?:wavey:

 

[AAA]

i need to read this..n/t

Hello all...
This thread is being co-sponsored by TCGreek, reformedbeliever, and myself.

The Nature of God

• The Doctrine of God
• The Greatness of God
• The Goodness of God
• God's Three in Oneness: The Trinity

The Work of God

• God's Plan
• God's originating Work: Creation
• God's continuing Work: Providence
• Evil and God's World
• God's special Agents: Angels

• 
  
  Note to self:
  
  Trinitarian used the word "ONENESS" in reference to GOD....

 

[TCGreek]

Just a question if you all don't mind. Some have complained about Erickson's Theology because he is non-commital and expresses several points of view. My question is does his book on Bible doctrine follow the same pattern or is it more in line with calvinism?:wavey:

POB,

Erickson has been dubbed a moderate Calvinist. His ordo salutis is different than someone like Grudem.

I'm using his mammoth Christain Theology, 2nd. ed.

 

[JerryL]

That the One who is the beginning and the end created us anyway.

Knowing how we would react to Him, rebelling all our lives and not being able to go hardly an hour without sinning against Him, He still loved us enough to create us.

BTW, I am in the Appalachians, God's country............. really.

 

[Jarthur001]

1 What is Theology?
2 What is Revelation?
3 What is Bible based Doctrine?
4 The storyline of the Bible (very much need)
5 Interpretation
6 Doctrine of God Proper
7 Classical Theism
8 Attributes that make God, God
a Knowledge of God
b Foreknowledge of God
c The Sovereignty of God
d The Immutability of God
e The Holiness of God
f The Power of God
9 God and Time
10 Names of God and meaning
11 Divine Attributes in our God
a Faithfulness
b Goodness
c Grace
d Mercy
e Love
f Wrath
12 The Trinity
13 Providence

I put all views on the table. In other words, I am a Calvinist, but I will give a strong non-Calvinist argument. The storyline of the Bible is really part of Biblical Theology, but it is my feeling that a good study of God will have this included. I know this can take some time, but it is well with it.

Tim from what I have read from your post I would say you would like Floyd H Barckman, Practical Theology...low Calvinist view.

 

[tinytim]

I guess we have to enter another debate to decide where God really lives. :laugh:

OK, first thing first.... God lives in Almost Heaven WV!!!

 

[Jarthur001]

OK, first thing first.... God lives in Almost Heaven WV!!!

YES He does.....

 

[tinytim]

Second, I made a mistake in my OP...
We will be discussing The work of God in next Thursday's class.

Tonight we did back up, and discussed contemporizing theology, and then how God gave us general revelation and special revelation...

Then we moved into God's Attributes.. .and ended with the Trinity...

To answer my own questions... from the OP...

1) I find his eternal attribute the most mysterious to me... How he has always existed... And is the proper term atemporal, or omnitemporal?

2) My favorite attribute would HAVE to be God is merciful...

3) Let's not back up and look at revelation... The version forums have debates galore for that...

I do have a specific question...
A scripture to discuss...

How does the following scripture jive with the idea that God is completely holy, and does not allow or promote sin?

2Ch 18:19-22 NIV
(19) And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that.
(20) Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
" 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
(21) " 'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
(22) "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

 

[reformedbeliever]

OK, first thing first.... God lives in Almost Heaven WV!!!

Seems I've heard that before........ is it in a song? :laugh:

I'll bet the person who wrote that song was never in Texas! It gets up to 110f in the summer. Isn't that close to heaven?.... or the other direction? raying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

Second, I made a mistake in my OP...
We will be discussing The work of God in next Thursday's class.

Tonight we did back up, and discussed contemporizing theology, and then how God gave us general revelation and special revelation...

Then we moved into God's Attributes.. .and ended with the Trinity...

To answer my own questions... from the OP...

1) I find his eternal attribute the most mysterious to me... How he has always existed... And is the proper term atemporal, or omnitemporal?

2) My favorite attribute would HAVE to be God is merciful...

3) Let's not back up and look at revelation... The version forums have debates galore for that...

I do have a specific question...
A scripture to discuss...

How does the following scripture jive with the idea that God is completely holy, and does not allow or promote sin?

2Ch 18:19-22 NIV
(19) And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
"One suggested this, and another that.
(20) Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'
" 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
(21) "'I will go and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
" 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
(22) "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

I would think that since sin exists, then God allows it. Does God promote sin or does He allow sin? I think He allows it. This in no way changes His trice Holiness.

 

[Allan]

Are we going to be going scrictly by Ericksons book/work or are we going to be talking about Theology proper with him as a base and others as supportive.

Example: I have Ericksons Christian Theology 2nd. ed., and also Ryrie's Basic Theology, and J.I. Packers Concise Theology (A guide to Historic Christain beliefs), and I know I have two other books but not sure where they are at present.

 

[tinytim]

The class is using Erickson's book, but by all means we can pull from all other places... Anything to enhance the discussion.

The instructor gave the students the information about this thread tonight... so we may have some that participate, or they may just look on..

Either way, I would like for them to see theology at work in this thread.
We have a good set of Calvinistic thinkers as well as free well thinkers on this board.

And it is really hard for me to seperate theology from either of those two systems.

In short, let's pull out the big guns if you got em!

 

[The Archangel]

Are we going to be going scrictly by Ericksons book/work or are we going to be talking about Theology proper with him as a base and others as supportive.

Example: I have Ericksons Christian Theology 2nd. ed., and also Ryrie's Basic Theology, and J.I. Packers Concise Theology (A guide to Historic Christain beliefs), and I know I have two other books but not sure where they are at present.

I hope not "Strictly." I have Grudem's Systematic Theology.

The Archangel

 

[tinytim]

I would think that since sin exists, then God allows it. Does God promote sin or does He allow sin? I think He allows it. This in no way changes His trice Holiness.

Yes God allows it.
But in the scripture above, he said "Go and do it"
that is more of a command, is it not?

Could there be more to this...
We studied Anthropomorphism in class tonight...
Could this be a slight case of that here?...

A way for the people to envision something that happened...

 

[tinytim]

And another thing, since God is Omniscient, why is He asking for advice from spirits?

Wouldn't He have known what to do?

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Tim,

1) I find his eternal attribute the most mysterious to me... How he has always existed... And is the proper term atemporal, or omnitemporal?

God is both. Omnitemporal of course means God is in all times frames. But time did not exsit before creation for time is part of creation. All of creation is temporal ( will change or will pass away) God is atemporal...meaning He is not subject to change. Time is but a measurement of change. God is atemporal but His work with mankind is always omnitemporal (in all time frames) because man is part of creation and time is part of creation also.

2) My favorite attribute would HAVE to be God is merciful...

As you can see in my list a have two sets of attributes. Most only have one list. This is why I have two. In the "Attributes that make God, God" you will find all attributes that makes God, God. In other words, if we say God is love, but God does not have the power to unforce love, then He is not God. Yet a God with full power does not have to love. But our God does love.

I have two of the highest attributes....Gods sovereignty/power so that we can count on Gods love and mercy. Gods Holiness is just as high as His sovereignty

3) Let's not back up and look at revelation... The version forums have debates galore for that...

ok

How does the following scripture jive with the idea that God is completely holy, and does not allow or promote sin?

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab king of Israel into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'

I'm not sure I will give a answer you agree with. But here goes from a Calvinist view.

Sin is a path away from Gods will. If God does it, it is not sin, but rather His will.

That is a over all view of passages like this. However, each verse must be looked at on its own.

 

[Allan]

I would think that since sin exists, then God allows it. Does God promote sin or does He allow sin? I think He allows it. This in no way changes His trice Holiness.

I will agree with Reformed, in that God allows His creation to sin. His allowance is by no means a promotion of sin.

God allows His creation to act in sin (or act against God) but God does not nor has He ever promoted sin nor encouraged others (man or angel) TO sin. This in fact would be a contradiction of His nature of Holiness AND His desire for for all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and in so repenting, holiness from these men (1 Pet 1:15-16).

Now, with due regard to your passage Tim:
God did not do anything or even allow anything that Ahab was not ALREADY looking for. And the spirit that went forth did not go to God prophets but Ahab's who were ALREADY false prophesiers and liars. God merely asked who will do this and then asked the spirit what IT was going to do, ans said do it.

 

[tinytim]

Hello Tim,



God is both. Omnitemporal of course means God is in all times frames. But time did not exsit before creation for time is part of creation. All of creation is temporal ( will change or will pass away) God is atemporal...meaning He is not subject to change. Time is but a measurement of change. God is atemporal but His work with mankind is always omnitemporal (in all time frames) because man is part of creation and time is part of creation also.

Very good.. .It is so hard to talk about eternity because we live within time... Doesn't this fact about time affect Calvinistic views? I mean, Without the element of time, the point God redeemed us is the exact point in which we accepted him. So when we remove the time element, doesn't Calvinism and free will come together?

As you can see in my list a have two sets of attributes. Most only have one list. This is why I have two. In the "Attributes that make God, God" you will find all attributes that makes God, God. In other words, if we say God is love, but God does not have the power to unforce love, then He is not God. Yet a God with full power does not have to love. But our God does love.

I have two of the highest attributes....Gods sovereignty/power so that we can count on Gods love and mercy. Gods Holiness is just as high as His sovereignty

Maybe my question wasn't a very fair one.
Maybe I was being a little tricky...

YOu see.. when we isolate one attribute, and place it above others, we have destroyed all attributes... they are all equal.

I'm not sure I will give a answer you agree with. But here goes from a Calvinist view.

Sin is a path away from Gods will. If God does it, it is not sin, but rather His will.

That is a over all view of passages like this. However, each verse must be looked at on its own.

I want all points of view.. whether I agree or not...
So what your are saying is this: Since God is Holy, he cannot sin, so even when he sends out a lie, it is not a sin, because it ultimately accomplished His will. Right, or did I read it wrong?

 

[reformedbeliever]

I will agree with Reformed, in that God allows His creation to sin. His allowance is by no means a promotion of sin.

God allows His creation to act in sin (or act against God) but God does not nor has He ever promoted sin nor encouraged others (man or angel) TO sin. This in fact would be a contradiction of His nature of Holiness AND His desire for for all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30) and in so repenting, holiness from these men (1 Pet 1:15-16).

Now, with due regard to your passage Tim:
God did not do anything or even allow anything that Ahab was not ALREADY looking for. And the spirit that went forth did not go to God prophets but Ahab's who were ALREADY false prophesiers and liars. God merely asked who will do this and then asked the spirit what IT was going to do, ans said do it.

We agree?...................:applause: :laugh: