Investigative Judgement

[BobRyan]

That is two fluff posts -- nothing at all in the Bible with your catholic argument that an early Catholic has to read Daniel 7 before you have to pay attention to the Bible in that chapter.

... Daniel 7... coming up again... soon.

 

[BobRyan]

As promised - Daniel 7 -- the actual Bible on this subject.

Originally Posted by BobRyan
For those using Bible-avoidance - this may not be of interest ...

But for those interested in "investigative Judgment" that we see in Dan 7

AFTER the 4 world empires in vs 1-8 appear - and after the fall of pagan Rome in vs 9, and after the little horn power arises that rules during the dark ages of 1260 years

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


[FONT=&quot]The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming[/FONT]

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7
23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

===============================

So then what are the "details" in that judgment - what issues are they reviewing to come to their conclusions "according to the text". (So probably not of interest if one is using Bible-avoidance with the text.)

======================================

Catholics will often complain that the "Bible is not enough" that they need an ECF or early "Catholic" source - to also instruct them on the same point or they will not listen to what the Bible says ...

 

[vooks]

===============================

So then what are the "details" in that judgment - what issues are they reviewing to come to their conclusions "according to the text". (So probably not of interest if one is using Bible-avoidance with the text.)

======================================

Catholics will often complain that the "Bible is not enough" that they need an ECF or early "Catholic" source - to also instruct them on the same point or they will not listen to what the Bible says ...[/I]

There is a boy One Baptist who threw some tantrums and was summarily kicked out of this place:smilewinkgrin:

He tried to answer the question. His best shot was Wikipedia:tonofbricks:

So boys have no answers. I turn to men hoping for more sense, but lo and behold. Instead of admitting that your godess made up IJ to excuse errors of a movement she was part of, you have been skirting around the issue all these pages. Is this childish? I doubt, it must be terminal embarrassment.

Emergence of a new doctrine 1900 years after John wrote Amen in Rev 22:21 is highly suspect. What was God hiding all these years? How is IJ as you know it RELEVANT to a post-1844 believer than it was not to a pre-1844 that warrants such late 'revelation'?

And I did you. Favor, I broke down this mishmash of foolishness into its constituents. All are equally unscriptural. Specifically, I asked for proof of confessed sin-transfer to the sanctuary. This has no place IN and OUTSIDE scriptures


The saddest bit? BobRyan lives in constant fear of losing his eternal life which he is not even sure of having in the first place. But BobRyan believing in 25 prophets (EGW being the 25th) imagines he is a Christian, visible remnant while 'Babylon' who believes in 24 prophets are at most 'nominal Christians', invisible church and damned at most

 

[BobRyan]

As promised - Daniel 7 -- the actual Bible on this subject.

Originally Posted by BobRyan
For those using Bible-avoidance - this may not be of interest ...

But for those interested in "investigative Judgment" that we see in Dan 7

AFTER the 4 world empires in vs 1-8 appear - and after the fall of pagan Rome in vs 9, and after the little horn power arises that rules during the dark ages of 1260 years

1. Books are opened.
2. Court sits and many many beings are there - not just God.
3. The Father is presiding - And Christ comes to the Court room - Judgment once it is setup.
4. Once that Judgment is ended - and judgment passes in favor of the saints -- the persecution of the saints ends
5. And we have the second coming.


[FONT=&quot]The Bible says this about the pre-advent investigative judgment that precedes the 2nd coming[/FONT]

Dan 7
“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;
Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him.
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.


And then when judgment finishes - the 2nd coming.

Dan 7
23 “Thus he said:
‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’

===============================

So then what are the "details" in that judgment - what issues are they reviewing to come to their conclusions "according to the text". (So probably not of interest if one is using Bible-avoidance with the text.)

======================================

Catholics will often complain that the "Bible is not enough" that they need an ECF or early "Catholic" source - to also instruct them on the same point or they will not listen to what the Bible says ...

When I post this Bible text the response of "less Bible please while I post more rant" is to be "expected" from a tiny few.

sorry to have to continually return the thread back to the actual subject in the title.

 

[vooks]

When I post this Bible text the response of "less Bible please while I post more rant" is to be "expected" from a tiny few.

sorry to have to continually return the thread back to the actual subject in the title.

This thread is a testament to BobRyan's dishonesty. Rather than answer a simple question, he would gladly paint it red with glorious but irrelevant scriptures:tonofbricks:


The question was,
Who besides Ellen White ever taught a Investigative Judgement?

If the scope of that question is too wide, let's narrow down and answer this fundamental pillars of IJ;
Who has ever taught that blood of sin offerings transfers sin to the sanctuary besides Ellen White?

PS: give both scriptures and other interpretations of believers

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Bob Ryan and any Seventh-day Adventist, I challenge you today, to tell me why I or any Christian may not believe

1) Christ Jesus in his RESURRECTION from the dead and grave in Daniel 7:9 and why not

2) the SECOND COMING of Jesus Christ in Daniel 7:13,14?!

WHY for the salvation of one's soul NOT ?!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I'm going to start a new thread on this ...

 

[vooks]

READ the points in the posts - then we can talk - so far you seem to be content to avoid the Bible at all costs.

That approach you use - is from the dark-ages handbook of Bible-avoidance.

More Bible -- as you seem content to flee from it.

[FONT=&quot]In Lev 5:4-6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] we see that the sinner must confess his sin as part of this act of seeking forgiveness.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In Lev 10:16-18 we see that sin is transferred in the daily as part of the sin offering -- from the people to the tent of meeting by the act of the Priests.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Lev 10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But Moses searched carefully for the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it had been burned up! So he was angry with Aaron’s surviving sons Eleazar and Ithamar, saying,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Why did you not eat the sin offering at the holy place[/FONT][FONT=&quot]? For it is most holy, and He gave it to you to bear away the guilt of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 18 Behold, since its blood had not been brought inside, into the sanctuary, you should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary, just as I commanded.”[/FONT]

BobRyan, seems you never thawed your brains after all. You had to have it first to thaw it.

Which part of Leviticus 10 says SIN IS TRANSFERRED IN THE DAILY
We have either blood sprinkled in the sanctuary or sacrifice eaten in the sanctuary as part of a sin offering rite. Question is, which of these transfer sin to the sanctuary and where is it written that either or both of them transfer sin in the sanctuary?

What we know is , without either of them, atonement is incomplete but where is it written that they transfer sins?


The UNLEARNED and the UNSTABLE, Jesus loves you and he says
James 1:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

You need your brains restored first and then a double portion of wisdom sir/madam

 

[BobRyan]

Bob Ryan and any Seventh-day Adventist, I challenge you today, to tell me why I or any Christian may not believe

1) Christ Jesus in his RESURRECTION from the dead and grave in Daniel 7:9 and why not

2) the SECOND COMING of Jesus Christ in Daniel 7:13,14?!

WHY for the salvation of one's soul NOT ?!

Dan 7:7-8 is about the fourth and fifth empires - the 4th being Rome, the 5th being the Papacy (little horn) that arises from the pagan Roman Empire after Rome was divided... so then wayyyy past the time of the resurrection of Christ.

Dan 7:9-10 the judgment scene that is also wayyy past the time of the resurrection.

9 “I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

13“I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.