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Invite Jesus Into Your Heart?
- Thread starter thatbrian
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Wrong.
Right.
I can read a letter that was addressed to you, but my ability to read it and hold it in my hand does not change who it is addressed to.
I'd love to...two passages
Ephesians 4
11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherd and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.
There is only One Ministry My Brother...Make Disciples for JESUS...Win the Lost, Disciple the children to Grow and to repeat Process.
The Leaders of your Church are supposed to teach you how to win and disciple people, brother.
Secondly,
2Tim 2:1-2You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also.
Then Paul goes on to say...
But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Part of an evangelist's calling is to call people to repentance, the other half is to get saints stirred up to do the same.
I think you'll find that propaganda. It stems from bad theology.
I don't have any of those callings or gifts.
You misunderstand the passage, They Equip YOU to do ministry.
No. Teachers are given to make disciples. A teacher disciples, and teachers have a particular calling, unless you think that all men should baptize and teach, you should not insist that all men are evangelists. That is a particular gifting.
I know that what I am telling you is shocking, but it's all in the texts. What you are coming out with is what you have grown up in, and it seems like gospel to you, but you won't find it in scripture.
That was spoken to an evangelist. Right before it is instructs him to preach the word; be ready in season and out of season;
Do you think all men and women are preachers?
No. Just the first. If not, you deny the diversity of gifts.
No. They equip the saints to "build up the body". Make the body stronger. The body is the Church. It is Christians. It is the "one another-ing"
Paul said, "To equip the saints for the work of the Ministry."
Brother,
If your version of Christianity causes you to not make disciples, turn it in and Get another version
Or at least, Do not Export it
No, Brother, I did not "Grow up" with this ministry philosophy. This is the clear teachings of Scripture. The Woman at the Well even did her Part
No, Brother, I did not "Grow up" with this ministry philosophy. This is the clear teachings of Scripture. The Woman at the Well even did her Part
Give me scripture to make your point.
Brother,
If your version of Christianity causes you to not make disciples, turn it in and Get another version
Or at least, Do not Export it
You are jumping to conclusions and failing to look at the Bible. Keep in unemotional.
Your post proves you don't have a biblical case. Don't stoop to Ad Hom, brother.
Look at the text that YOU quoted me.
Don't move the goalposts or switch references. That makes for sloppy debate.
Ok ok, i'll do my best to keep it unemotional.
Let's work through this so we both know where we stand.
You believe that as a "lay person" that you do not have the authority to share the gospel, lead someone to Christ, and disciple them. Correct?
So Jerome,
I see you found my former post? One wonders if what is posted is worth the time. I hope you enjoyed my rhetorical read of Spurgeon's sermon. It will be one of my chapters of a new book I will publish on Rhetoric for Preaching. Look for it on my Amazon author's page in the not too distant future.
Thanks once again.
rd
I have not said that. Anyone may proclaim the gospel.
A disciple needs a teacher.
Are all men and women called to be teachers as a gifting?
Are all men and women qualified to teach?
Are all men and women called to baptize?
Show me scripture, please.
I see throughout the Gospels that Christ gave to more than just explicit Leaders the authority to proclaim the Gospel.
Christ sends the 70/72--Luke 10
Christ sends the ex-demoniac--Mark 5
Christ uses the Woman at the Well--John 4
Countless other passages
Christ commissions disciples Matthew 28:18-20; John 17; John 20; Mark 16; Luke 24;
Epistles speak of this reality--1 Thessalonians 1; 2 Cor. 5--Ministers of Reconciliation; Philemon; Ephesians 4; Eph. 6--Disciple Children (nurture admonition of the Lord); Romans 10; Jude 22; James 5, 1 Peter 3:15; etc. etc. etc.
You may have added this while i was typing...
"Making Disciples" is more than just "teaching" however, incorporating the Word is involved in every area of discipleship.
Maybe we are talking past each other? I agree, not everyone is a "Pastor/Teacher"...
I would need specific verses to understand your argument correctly.
I did edit that post.
I try to be very precise with theory and how I speak about these things.
Teaching, Baptizing and Evangelizing, proper is the work of the Church and it's performed by those called, gifted and appointed to those tasks; HOWEVER, all Christians are involved in the building up of the Body.
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