Iraqi Veterans Against the War

[LadyEagle]

From their web site, read the reasons they are against the war in Iraq.


http://www.ivaw.org/faq

By the way, members have served in the United States Military since September 11, 2001. It's an interesting web site and I'm browsing to see what these Iraq vets have to say. (click on Members Speak on the site) Just thought I'd pass this along for those who are interested.

Here is also another site:

Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America: http://www.optruth.org/

 

[av1611jim]

I read the first ten reasons they are against the war.

Can you say dope head Viet Nam vets? I knew you could.

This is nothing new. Whiny-butt "vets" coming home to an all out assault by the medias: they believe it: get recruited by some ultra liberal fools: and post this kind of sedition.

Used to be they had the guts to stage riots, etc... in protest at least. Now they have internet and can sit in their nice warm FREE homes and undermine the war effort.

Too bad these fools cannot see the trees for the forest. I don't know what blinded them to the evil of Islam, but SOMETHING did. Can you say Satan? I knew you could.

I sit here and shake my head in wonder.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

These war-mongering neocons don't care, just read the above posting for proof. Anyone who disagrees with them is attacked, whether or not they have served in Iraq. Seems like someone so committed to this war would enlist immediately!

 

[Tom Bryant]

I read the first ten reasons they are against the war.
Can you say dope head Viet Nam vets? I knew you could.
This is nothing new. Whiny-butt "vets" coming home to an all out assault by the medias: they believe it: get recruited by some ultra liberal fools: and post this kind of sedition.
Used to be they had the guts to stage riots, etc... in protest at least. Now they have internet and can sit in their nice warm FREE homes and undermine the war effort.
Too bad these fools cannot see the trees for the forest. I don't know what blinded them to the evil of Islam, but SOMETHING did. Can you say Satan? I knew you could.
I sit here and shake my head in wonder.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Question because I don't know: Did you serve in the military? Are you a combat vet?

 

[LadyEagle]

Jim, the people who belong to this are Iraqi vets, not Viet Nam vets. About the dope head part, do we know some of our troops aren't on dope now in Iraq? I read where Iraq is the passageway for the poppy trade of Afghanistan to Europe and beyond.....Funny, you don't see much about it in the press, though, about the human and drug trafficking that is going on in Iraq.

 

[El_Guero]

If they are 'dope head' veterans - they probably got kicked out.

The drug testing program in the Army is one of the best, if not the absolute best.

Jim, the people who belong to this are Iraqi vets, not Viet Nam vets. About the dope head part, do we know some of our troops aren't on dope now in Iraq? I read where Iraq is the passageway for the poppy trade of Afghanistan to Europe and beyond.....Funny, you don't see much about it in the press, though, about the human and drug trafficking that is going on in Iraq.

 

[saturneptune]

I read the first ten reasons they are against the war.

Can you say dope head Viet Nam vets? I knew you could.

This is nothing new. Whiny-butt "vets" coming home to an all out assault by the medias: they believe it: get recruited by some ultra liberal fools: and post this kind of sedition.

Used to be they had the guts to stage riots, etc... in protest at least. Now they have internet and can sit in their nice warm FREE homes and undermine the war effort.

Too bad these fools cannot see the trees for the forest. I don't know what blinded them to the evil of Islam, but SOMETHING did. Can you say Satan? I knew you could.

I sit here and shake my head in wonder.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

That was a disgraceful post. You couldnt hold a candle to any of the returning vets, doped up or not, regardless of the war. <personal attack deleted - LE>

 

[redbelt]

With the tens of thousands who have served in Iraq, is it any wonder that there are those who served who are opposed to the War?

While there myself, I saw dozens and dozens of troops re-enlisting to serve. And no, it wasn't because they wanted to kill or hurt people. There is a special comradery among Soldiers in combat... a special family and bond. When you see fellow Soldiers killed, you can become even more determined to fight for them and for their memory.

I guess that is what makes the division here at home so much harder. If everyone could sense the sacrifice and determination that we have for this fight and support the purpose of this conflict... I believe we would have already won.

When our enemies smell fear and doubt... they see hope.

When our enemies see us more interested in attacking our president, than attacking our enemies... they see opportunity.

When our enemies see and hear us here at home saying the war is hopeless and not worth it... they see victory.

One of the biggest fears I have is that if we don't win there, we will fight those same people here in the USA. We don't want roadside bombs here in the US, believe me.

 

[carpro]

I wonder if the anti- Iraq War movement will produce as many fake vets as the anti- Vietnam War movement did.

 

[El_Guero]

Don't even think that way!

But, I do know what you mean. And it is scary.

I wonder if the anti- Iraq War movement will produce as many fake vets as the anti- Vietnam War movement did.

 

[El_Guero]

Redbelt,

If I haven't - thank you for protecting our Country and our way of life.

Tell your comrades that I thank them as well.

From one proud veteran, for what it is worth, I thank God that we have had the best and most professional fighting force in the world.

God bless you

Wayne

With the tens of thousands who have served in Iraq, is it any wonder that there are those who served who are opposed to the War?

While there myself, I saw dozens and dozens of troops re-enlisting to serve. And no, it wasn't because they wanted to kill or hurt people. There is a special comradery among Soldiers in combat... a special family and bond. When you see fellow Soldiers killed, you can become even more determined to fight for them and for their memory.

I guess that is what makes the division here at home so much harder. If everyone could sense the sacrifice and determination that we have for this fight and support the purpose of this conflict... I believe we would have already won.

When our enemies smell fear and doubt... they see hope.

When our enemies see us more interested in attacking our president, than attacking our enemies... they see opportunity.

When our enemies see and hear us here at home saying the war is hopeless and not worth it... they see victory.

One of the biggest fears I have is that if we don't win there, we will fight those same people here in the USA. We don't want roadside bombs here in the US, believe me.

 

[LadyEagle]

One of the biggest fears I have is that if we don't win there, we will fight those same people here in the USA. We don't want roadside bombs here in the US, believe me.

No, we don't, but it is inevitable they will come because some of those same people who believe in the same cause, are already here and well entrenched in America, protected under the US Constitution and by groups ready to rally for them, like the ACLU and CAIR. Years ago, during the first Gulf War, when CNN was the only cable news network, they interviewed some imam from somewhere (in Chicago, if I recall correctly), who said (even back then) that all he had to do was give the word and those who support the cause of islam (jihad) would bring jihad to America because they are already here. That was how long ago, 16 years ago? I will never forget seeing that interview. I only wish it could be brought up for people to see, but that was before such everyday use of the Internet and everyone having web sites, long lost to the archives of the first Gulf War, if archived at all.

And yet, terrorism experts have testified on Capitol Hill about the danger of these terrorists groups that are well planted here in America, who keep coming over here, one by one, by either marrying American citizens, or coming on work or educational or religious/cultural exchange visas. Believe me, Brother, they are here and have been here for a long time. They are well imbedded in our communities, in our institutions of higher education, in our society, even in our military. The IEDs will be here and so will the homicide bombers within the next few years, sad to say, whether we are in Iraq or not.

I praise God for people like Walid Shoebat, a former terrorist, who speaks the truth. View the trailer of his movie here:

http://www.shoebat.com/islam.php

 

[pinoybaptist]

I wonder if the anti- Iraq War movement will produce as many fake vets as the anti- Vietnam War movement did.

It probably would.

 

[Phillip]

Agree

If they are 'dope head' veterans - they probably got kicked out.

The drug testing program in the Army is one of the best, if not the absolute best.

I have to gree with you on this count. I know there was drug abuse in Viet Nam, especially among marijuana, but that was a whole different WORLD and the Army of today is NOTHING like the Army of that day. This is not to cut them down; it is just to say things have changed.

Today anybody around ammo or weapons will unlikely get away withh any kind of drug.

I say this as an employee in the Ammunition side of the Army. You can't even eat bread with poppy seeds on it within a week of a drug test; and when you get surprise drug tests, you just learn not to eat poppy seeds...that's how accurate the drug tests the Army uses and they do not keep testing to find a trend. Positive and you've got a problem. I think it is now a good system. These were not available in the era of Viet Nam.

 

[saturneptune]

Phillip,
That was a very good post, and one of few valid points I have seen about Iraq in several threads.

 

[The Galatian]

I think we have a much bigger threat from those who see the Constitution as the enemy.

No, we don't, but it is inevitable they will come because some of those same people who believe in the same cause, are already here and well entrenched in America, protected under the US Constitution

If that kind of thinking ever becomes widespread in America, Osama will have won; the destruction of America will then be a matter of time.

 

[El_Guero]

I disagree.

I believe that it was always Osama's plan to use America against us. I believe that he felt that Americans would not have the stomach to fight him and he would eventually win. I believe that he felt that he would find Americans that would allow him to use the Constitution and our Freedoms against us . . .

. . . and his major attack used those freedoms to hi-jack and attack on September 11th.

No, Saddam, Osama, and many other despots see our way of life as their ally. But, as long as God is our ally, we will continue to have a great way of life.

Fortunately, God has continued to bless this country and until He turns His hand against us, we will not be defeated by such enemies.

I think we have a much bigger threat from those who see the Constitution as the enemy.



If that kind of thinking ever becomes widespread in America, Osama will have won; the destruction of America will then be a matter of time.

 

[Daisy]

With the tens of thousands who have served in Iraq, is it any wonder that there are those who served who are opposed to the War?

While there myself, I saw dozens and dozens of troops re-enlisting to serve. And no, it wasn't because they wanted to kill or hurt people. There is a special comradery among Soldiers in combat... a special family and bond. When you see fellow Soldiers killed, you can become even more determined to fight for them and for their memory.

You write well; I appreciate your sentiment.

I guess that is what makes the division here at home so much harder. If everyone could sense the sacrifice and determination that we have for this fight and support the purpose of this conflict... I believe we would have already won.

What is the purpose of this conflict?

Haven't we already won? There are no WMDs, no nuclear programme, Saddam is overthrown, tried and hanged, his sons are dead and we brought democracy to Iraq (and we got the oil contracts in petrodollars, not petroeuros).

What is left to do? I don't think it is feasible to try to establish a permanent military base there any longer, do you? While it would've been nice to move troops out of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic holy lands and into Iraq that was never a stated goal, so perhaps we could forgo it.

When our enemies smell fear and doubt... they see hope.

I haven't been there, but I suspect the smell of fear and doubt (and perhaps despair) is far, far stronger there than here.

When our enemies see us more interested in attacking our president, than attacking our enemies... they see opportunity.

That's a bit strong - no one has attacked our president with cluster bombs, white phosphorous, sticks or stones. A few tough questions are not exactly the same as an attack.

When our enemies see and hear us here at home saying the war is hopeless and not worth it... they see victory.

They've taken to fighting each other - some Pyrrhic victory.

One of the biggest fears I have is that if we don't win there, we will fight those same people here in the USA. We don't want roadside bombs here in the US, believe me.

Suppose all Iraqis were made as peaceful as Jains, how would that stop terrorists from coming here, especially as the ones from before were not from Iraq anyway?

 

[redbelt]

Daisy,

Thank you for your response and thank you for doing it with thoughtfulness rather than some of the personal attacks that some like to make against each other on this site.

I can only give you my perspective related to some of your comments:
What is the purpose of this conflict?

Haven't we already won? There are no WMDs, no nuclear programme, Saddam is overthrown, tried and hanged, his sons are dead and we brought democracy to Iraq (and we got the oil contracts in petrodollars, not petroeuros).

What is left to do? I don't think it is feasible to try to establish a permanent military base there any longer, do you? While it would've been nice to move troops out of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic holy lands and into Iraq that was never a stated goal, so perhaps we could forgo it.

The purpose of this conflict is not only to deny Al Queda a foothold in Iraq, but to destroy Al Queda whereever it might be found. If children can be raised without hate toward America... then we have a chance to succeed. We must give every effort to support our Iraqi brothers in this conflict. They have recieved much training from us, but we can't just leave them. It's as if they are a young tree with fresh roots, if we leave too soon, the wind will simply blow them away.

Even though Iraq was not involved in 9/11, we know that Al Queda did have contact with the Iraqi government. Not sure what the total extend was, but there was contact according to the 9/11 Commission Report. We know Al Queda is in Iraq now and active in the defeat of both the US and Iraq.

If we(US & Iraq) lose... Al Queda gets a new place to operate from. The war on terror has worked well in reducing the places they can go and also is making it more difficult to finance Al Queda.

Iraq is just one battleground in the War against terrorism. We have to be more patient than our enemies or we will lose this war. Americans have never been known for much patience.


Originally Posted by r
When our enemies smell fear and doubt... they see hope.

I haven't been there, but I suspect the smell of fear and doubt (and perhaps despair) is far, far stronger there than here.

I think you could be right about that and I think I know why. The last time we were in Iraq, back in 91, we made promises to some Iraqi's that we would back them up. Well... we left them and they faced Saddam and many of those people were killed. We cut and run.

Soon they will hear of a resolution from our congress basically saying... we are gonna cut and run. Put yourself in their place and maybe you would be hesitant to step up in a big fight if you knew that the person watching your back had backed out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r
When our enemies see us more interested in attacking our president, than attacking our enemies... they see opportunity.

That's a bit strong - no one has attacked our president with cluster bombs, white phosphorous, sticks or stones. A few tough questions are not exactly the same as an attack.

Daisy, it's more than just questions. He's been called a liar, a murderer and much worse. It's personal, it's hateful. It's more than just disagreement on the part of many people.

The worse part is that it gives our enemies hope. Hope of succeeding. Hope of overcoming the US. Wasn't it Lincoln who said, a divided house cannot stand. That's where we are today.

I am afraid if the US is seen as weak to our enemies, it will embolden them to attack us some and repeatedly. Stepping out of Iraq just might make things even worse. I guess we will wait and pray and see.

 

[LadyEagle]

I am afraid if the US is seen as weak to our enemies, it will embolden them to attack us some and repeatedly. Stepping out of Iraq just might make things even worse. I guess we will wait and pray and see.

We are already seen as weak to our enemies because we did not conduct this war as a war - it has been conducted as nation building while trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. Our military has had to fight with one hand tied behind their back because they might "offend" the people. When fighting a war to win, you don't worry about building hearts and minds while you are fighting it. We lost control of the situation only a few days after the statue fell and it has spiraled into more and more chaos ever since. If, we had gone in there with more troops (as was recommended by some of the generals), we could have had more of a presence to control looting, etc., in the neighborhoods. If our troops would have been allowed to fight without strange rules of engagement (like not going into mosques, blowing up mosques, etc.) we could have squashed the insurgency at the get go. Bush has arrogantly blundered all the way because he had no realistic post-Saddam plan, and in the process has cost over 3000 lives of American young men and women and what is the figure now, 40,000 wounded? :BangHead: