Iraqi Veterans Against the War

[Dragoon68]

The DAV is who I am involved with.

The DAV is a great organization.

I basically agree with your points above, and anyone is entitled to any political or other view they feel is correct. However, there should be no tolerance from the American people for ineptness in leadership costing American lives. This has nothing to do with democrat, liberal, conservative or anything else. It has to do with common sense. If a leader and his side kick do not know how to run a war, resign and let someone who does know take over.

Politicians and administrators should be replaced if they don't do a good job as should be military commanders. The point of difference is that some of us don't agree that the sitting President or his administration are incompotent or that the war being prosecuted is wrong.

And yes, I will be the first to admit, I have real problems with people who condone such leadership at the cost of American lives.

I have real problems with people blaming the wrong people for the wrong things at the wrong time. We need to focus on beating America's enemies.

There is NO connection between having served in the military several decades ago and being obligated to bow down to present incompetence.

Once a soldier - always a soldier. We are very much connected to those serving now. Traditions and lineage carry on. The example they follow is the one we set.

Again, that (bowing down) presumes there is gross incompetence in the manner you see it. The gross incompetence I see rests in the anti-war crowd not in the political or admistrative leaders nor the military leaders handling the war.

 

[Dragoon68]

Well stated.

Thanks Daisy!

Why call their head ugly and why do you despise them and their actions? Which actions? I'm not particularly familiar with them as you seem to be.

I say "their ugly head" because no good - only evil - will come of what they're doing. No part of the anti-war crowd - veteran or not - is, or will do, anything constructive in our fight against our enemies. All it will do is give our enemies hope and that works against us.

 

[saturneptune]

DAV is Disabled American Veterans.

 

[carpro]

Is the anti-war movement today similar to the one during the Vietnam War? One difference is that hate for Bush , not the war, is the driving force. The effect? We have precedence to look at.

"Every testimony by North Vietnamese generals in the postwar years has affirmed that they knew they could not defeat the United States on the battlefield, and that they counted on the division of our people at home to win the war for them. The Vietcong forces we were fighting in South Vietnam were destroyed in 1968. In other words, most of the war and most of the casualties in the war occurred because the dictatorship of North Vietnam counted on the fact Americans would give up the battle rather than pay the price necessary to win it. This is what happened. The blood of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, and tens of thousands of Americans, is on the hands of the anti-war activists who prolonged the struggle and gave victory to the Communists."

David Horowitz

 

[saturneptune]

Is the anti-war movement today similar to the one during the Vietnam War? One difference is that hate for Bush , not the war, is the driving force. The effect? We have precedence to look at.

"Every testimony by North Vietnamese generals in the postwar years has affirmed that they knew they could not defeat the United States on the battlefield, and that they counted on the division of our people at home to win the war for them. The Vietcong forces we were fighting in South Vietnam were destroyed in 1968. In other words, most of the war and most of the casualties in the war occurred because the dictatorship of North Vietnam counted on the fact Americans would give up the battle rather than pay the price necessary to win it. This is what happened. The blood of hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, and tens of thousands of Americans, is on the hands of the anti-war activists who prolonged the struggle and gave victory to the Communists."

David Horowitz

After some second thoughts, Carpro and I are not as divided as my past posts may seem. The anti-war movement in Vietnam was destructive, and so is this one today. I think our differences center on the leadership abilities of this administration. I do not associate this issue with the anti war movement, to me, its a matter of wasted American lives. But, I can see Carpro's view that both criticism of Bush and the anti war movement seem to give the enemy the same encouragement. Carpro served no doubt in a very honorable and courageous way. At least I know he knows what he is talking about over those who never served and rant.

Also, my fault, this op is not about Bush's lack of leadership. It is about the anti war movement, which I am totally opposed to. Having expressed my views about Mr Bush, it is time to put that to rest and wish our troops a speedy victory so they can get home to their families, and my apologies to Carpro.

 

[carpro]

After some second thoughts, Carpro and I are not as divided as my past posts may seem. The anti-war movement in Vietnam was destructive, and so is this one today. I think our differences center on the leadership abilities of this administration. I do not associate this issue with the anti war movement, to me, its a matter of wasted American lives. But, I can see Carpro's view that both criticism of Bush and the anti war movement seem to give the enemy the same encouragement. Carpro served no doubt in a very honorable and courageous way. At least I know he knows what he is talking about over those who never served and rant.

Also, my fault, this op is not about Bush's lack of leadership. It is about the anti war movement, which I am totally opposed to. Having expressed my views about Mr Bush, it is time to put that to rest and wish our troops a speedy victory so they can get home to their families, and my apologies to Carpro.

Apology accepted.

My apologies to you as well.

 

[Dragoon68]

... I know there was drug abuse in Viet Nam, especially among marijuana, but that was a whole different WORLD and the Army of today is NOTHING like the Army of that day. ...

The vast majority of troops in Viet Nam did not engage in any drug usage and, among drug users, the number being Viet Nam war veterans is smaller than non-veterans of the same era. There was a problem with drug use in Viet Nam that developed over time and became more serious in the last few years of our involvement. In most units such conduct would not have been tolerated to any extent. For all of us that didn't engage in drug usage that's an important detail that we want history to acknowledge. Our reputation and that of the units in which we served is otherwise damaged.

We can't hide that there were some problems and it was a serious concern that, if unchecked, could have been disastrous. Units with poor morale, lax discipline, and too much time on their hands had problems. That should not be a surprise! Some troops, especially in later years, started to echo the anti-war protests of people at home by more daring rebellion against authority in all realms. Drug use was a manifestation of that rebellion. Frustration with the war was taken to the streets and carried into the military. The problem was a carryover from the same problem back home and fueled by it. Troops without strong leadership, without esprit de corps, and without strong support from those back home will, left to their own devices, gravitate to the worst behavior. That's true of any army anywhere anytime.

Today's military has the same potential for this and other problems. We've even seen a few isolated examples of what can happen when there isn't good leadership. Mankind is just as sinful today as he's been since his fall and the troops today are no better or no worse[SIZE=+1]. Hopefully, we will stay focused on the mission and we will uphold the standards necessary to achieve it. Hopefully, the leadership - from junior NCO to senior officers - will make sure of that. Hopefully, America's citizens back home will keep our troops motivated to know that what they're doing is right, important, and worth it and will both encourage and demand that they persevere. I'm proud of our military in every war of every generation past and present.
[/SIZE]

 

[LadyEagle]

Wow, I think I just read a group hug on the politics forum. Awesome! :1_grouphug:

 

[carpro]

The vast majority of troops in Viet Nam did not engage in any drug usage and, among drug users, the number being Viet Nam war veterans is smaller than non-veterans of the same era[SIZE=+1].
[/SIZE]

Debunking another Vietnam War myth.

Good job.:thumbs:

 

[redbelt]

After some second thoughts, Carpro and I are not as divided as my past posts may seem. The anti-war movement in Vietnam was destructive, and so is this one today. I think our differences center on the leadership abilities of this administration. I do not associate this issue with the anti war movement, to me, its a matter of wasted American lives. But, I can see Carpro's view that both criticism of Bush and the anti war movement seem to give the enemy the same encouragement. Carpro served no doubt in a very honorable and courageous way. At least I know he knows what he is talking about over those who never served and rant.

Also, my fault, this op is not about Bush's lack of leadership. It is about the anti war movement, which I am totally opposed to. Having expressed my views about Mr Bush, it is time to put that to rest and wish our troops a speedy victory so they can get home to their families, and my apologies to Carpro.

WASTED AMERICAN LIVES? How many Soldiers do know personally who died in Iraq? I knew 8. I sure hope no family member or friend of a fallen Soldiers reads your post! I'm saddened by that comment!

 

[Ed Edwards]

sorry, the software doesn't allow one to make smaller letters so I
had to make another post

 

[Ed Edwards]

:thumbs: Thank you Redbelt for serving. :thumbs:

-signed:
Vietnam Veteran for the troops