Irresistible Grace is a useless doctrine

[Marooncat79]

No one says you can't oppose God's command to be holy. However, when God chooses the day when you will be eternally holy, will you be able to deny him his will to make you perfect in your holiness?
Don't mistake God's patience and mercy with you being able to stop the will of God from being fully accomplished.

You mean God saved Paul on the Damascus Road while he was actually hating God? You really believe that hug? The nerve of some people who believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation

Next, you will say that God called and saved Abram out of Idolatry, and dont get me started on Noah.

Personally, I would say that they are good examples of the effectual call.

You must really believe that Bible

 

[Yeshua1]

You didn't answer the question.

Can you stop what God ordains?

When God chooses to save you, by His gracious choice, can you stop God?

The answer, as you well know, is...No. You cannot stop God from choosing to graciously save you. The Bible very plainly shows you this.

Could Paul have told Jesus"Thanks, but too much trouble!"

 

[Yeshua1]

You mean God saved Paul on the Damascus Road while he was actually hating God? You really believe that hug? The nerve of some people who believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation

Next, you will say that God called and saved Abram out of Idolatry, and dont get me started on Noah.

Personally, I would say that they are good examples of the effectual call.

You must really believe that Bible

NONE of them were looking to meet the one True God!

 

[MB]

People do not believe the gospel because God has not given them to Jesus to graciously be saved. Jesus tells us this in John 6, John 10 and John 17.

It amazes me how you require human effort before God can save.

The Bible says:

Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I don't read any verse that says "Christ does not save those who do not believe the gospel."

I do read that God saves by grace and uses faith so that neither you nor I can boast.

There is no effort in believing in Christ. You either do or don't, effort is not involved. The only effort that you are mistakenly saying is mine is that of the Spirit and the word of God. They work together to convince us the truth.The rejection of that truth will always be wrong.
MB

 

[AustinC]

There is no effort in believing in Christ. You either do or don't, effort is not involved. The only effort that you are mistakenly saying is mine is that of the Spirit and the word of God. They work together to convince us the truth.The rejection of that truth will always be wrong.
MB

There is no effort, because you aren't the one choosing or not choosing to believe.
You believe because God, by grace, saves you and gives you faith to believe.

You are close to the truth, MB, but you keep insisting that you must activate your faith. Stop insisting on your self being the cause agent of your salvation.

 

[MB]

NONE of them were looking to meet the one True God!

Moses was there. Were you there ? How do you know what isn't written?
MB

 

[MB]

There is no effort, because you aren't the one choosing or not choosing to believe.
You believe because God, by grace, saves you and gives you faith to believe.

You are close to the truth, MB, but you keep insisting that you must activate your faith. Stop insisting on your self being the cause agent of your salvation.

You accuse me falsely just like a Pharisee's..Don't you know the Jews believed in God and rejected Him. They rejected Him because they believed the Priest and not the Bible. Sound familiar?
MB

 

[Derf B]

I don't read any verse that says "Christ does not save those who do not believe the gospel."

Really???? You should read your bible more.
Here’s one:
John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Moses was there. Were you there ? How do you know what isn't written?
MB

I know that both Isaiah and Paul stated that there are NONE that seek after God on their own, correct?

 

[MB]

Really???? You should read your bible more.
Here’s one:
John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Preist accused of not being the Son of God. Which caused them to doubt Besides that they had no holy Spirit with in to tell them the truth. I Thought you believed the Jews were saved and already had eternal life. There was once one of the twelve who denied Christ
MB

 

[Van]

You didn't answer the question.
SNIP
/QUOTE]
Notice the consistent pattern of false claims.

Does anyone think the Calvinist does not know when Almighty God predestines something, that something occurs? Of course he does. Everyone does! So what was the purpose of the question. To imply I do not? To change the subject? To obfuscate?
Irresistible Grace is false doctrine as verse after verse demonstrates, i.e. saved by grace through (on one the basis of) faith.

 

[MB]

I know that both Isaiah and Paul stated that there are NONE that seek after God on their own, correct?

Not correct;
2Ch_11:16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel such as set their hearts to seek the LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.


2Ch_19:3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.2Ch_15:12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

2Ch_31:21 And in every work that he began in the service of the house of God, and in the law, and in the commandments, to seek his God, he did it with all his heart, and prospered.

2Ch_34:3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.

do you need proof that man can seek God and did.

Ezr_4:2 Then they came to Zerubbabel, and to the chief of the fathers, and said unto them, Let us build with you: for we seek your God, as ye do; and we do sacrifice unto him since the days of Esarhaddon king of Assur, which brought us up hither.

Ezr_6:21 And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

MB

 

[AustinC]

You accuse me falsely just like a Pharisee's..Don't you know the Jews believed in God and rejected Him. They rejected Him because they believed the Priest and not the Bible. Sound familiar?
MB

Even the demons believe and tremble.
Humans are, by nature, in rebellion against God. Humans will never willingly surrender to God by their own choice. God must appoint them to believe, in which case they cannot resist what God has ordered.

Do you believe humans can resist the direct order of their Creator?

 

[MB]

Even the demons believe and tremble.
Humans are, by nature, in rebellion against God. Humans will never willingly surrender to God by their own choice. God must appoint them to believe, in which case they cannot resist what God has ordered.

Do you believe humans can resist the direct order of their Creator?

Scripture does not say that at all.
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
You see you're just plain wrong.
MB

 

[Derf B]

There is no effort, because you aren't the one choosing or not choosing to believe.
You believe because God, by grace, saves you and gives you faith to believe.

You are close to the truth, MB, but you keep insisting that you must activate your faith. Stop insisting on your self being the cause agent of your salvation.

If you’re saying MB is insisting on being the cause agent of his own salvation, and that he should stop doing that in order to find the truth, then you have wonderfully illustrated my OP—that irresistible grace needs to be prodded by the agent (MB in this case) for it to have any effect, and that it can be resisted.

Thank you for confirming my premise, by showing that even Calvinists have to act like grace is resistible, so the doctrine serves no purpose—it is useless!

I think we can close this thread now.


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[AustinC]

If you’re saying MB is insisting on being the cause agent of his own salvation, and that he should stop doing that in order to find the truth, then you have wonderfully illustrated my OP—that irresistible grace needs to be prodded by the agent (MB in this case) for it to have any effect, and that it can be resisted.

Thank you for confirming my premise, by showing that even Calvinists have to act like grace is resistible, so the doctrine serves no purpose—it is useless!

I think we can close this thread now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Derf, what in the world are you talking about?

Can you thwart the will of the Creator and stop God from doing what God wills to do?

 

[Salty]

6 hour warning
This thread will close no sooner than 5 am, Thr -EDT / 2 am PDT

 

[Squire Robertsson]

6 hour warning
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This thread is closed.