Irresistible Grace & Sanctification

Then you do agree that Grace is not a fixed Condition, but is rather dependent upon the one exhibiting it! Right?

 

One need not exhibit anything of grace to be elect.

john.

 

We are speaking of God's grace, not man's. The topic is Irresistible Grace & Sancification.

Take notes so you don't lose your place!

 

Hello Wes.

Man has no grace but it comes from God.

Oh I didn't thing you believed in that?

john.

 

The fact is there is resistible grace and resistible sanctification.

Some are saved as by fire with no works worthy of reward by God (and that is Scriptural John).

KJ...out

 

Hello KJ.

Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
I am holy blameless and pure in His sight. God is Sovereign. What we are is what He has caused us to be. Where is there boasting then about your own righteousness but it is a filthy rag.

All are saved by grace.

Some are saved as by fire with no works worthy of reward by God (and that is Scriptural John).
No it's not you just made it up! Not scripture at all! Why don't you try using some?

john.

 

Hello KJ.

All things are as He wishes. God is Sovereign.

I did not exist in eternity passed how could I be anything but in His mind to be.

You said this was scripture. "Some are saved as by fire with no works worthy of reward by God" That is not scripture.

Scripture is needed to support what you say is it not. If you say you are in line with scripture but do not prove your spoutings what are your spoutings worth? Nowt.

john.

 

No...good debaters don't argue with Scripture...especially out of context Scriptures. You surprise me with your lack of knowledge regarding that fact.

"I did not exist in eternity passed how could I be anything but in His mind to be."
But yet you say you were saved before the foundation of the world? You make no sense. If I am wrong, then you would admit that in time...before you were saved...you were wicked?


As for Scripture...this comes from a Calvinist Bible...Sproul's study Bible which I proudly own.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 says "Now if anyone builds on this foundation (Jesus Christ) with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

Pay attention to the last few words there john and then tell me I "made it up".

 

Hello KJ.

No that's what you keep saying and you keep getting rebuked for. Just shows what you are.

Your argument is less than worthy. I was conceived in sin and wicked as the day is long. I shall wear my sin as a crown and I shall face Him with confidence.

Why have you taken the verse numbers out? I know this passage well it is not what you wrote and said was scripture but it is different. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 is scripture.

I know what it says. It says that a teacher of the gospel, a saint, if he teaches correct doctrine his work will be rewarded but if he builds with Arminianism he will still be saved but he will lose his reward not his salvation. Teachers must go through a tougher test are you ready for that test?

john.

 

No that's what you keep saying and you keep getting rebuked for. Just shows what you are.

Your argument is less than worthy. I was conceived in sin and wicked as the day is long. I shall wear my sin as a crown and I shall face Him with confidence.

Why have you taken the verse numbers out? I know this passage well it is not what you wrote and said was scripture but it is different. 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 is scripture.

I know what it says. It says that a teacher of the gospel, a saint, if he teaches correct doctrine his work will be rewarded but if he builds with Arminianism he will still be saved but he will lose his reward not his salvation. Teachers must go through a tougher test are you ready for that test?

john. </font>[/QUOTE]

 

"Just shows what you are." Care to elaborate on what I am John?

 

God's grace.

Acts 18:27 - "...believed through grace"

How is it possible for one to believe through grace?

John 20:31 - "But these are written, that ye might believe" and Rom 10:17 - "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God"

If one believes through grace, they believe because they heard the word of God.

In fact, Luke records Paul's statement in Acts 20:24, "...to testify to the gospel of the grace of God"

Rom 1:16 states that the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

God's grace is manifest in the preaching of the gospel. Without God's word, you would know absolutely nothing about God's grace!

In Acts 20:32, Pauls states, "So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

What can the "word of His grace do"? Build you up and give you an inheritance.

Now notice Rom 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Where is redemption? In Christ Jesus.

2 Tim 2:1 -You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

Where is grace? In Christ Jesus.

You can search the bible from cover to cover and there is only one way to get INTO Christ Jesus, where redeeming grace is found, but that is another subject.

Gal 5:4 says, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." - NAS

You cannot be severed from something you were never connected to. You cannot fall from where you have never been. He is talking to Christians who are turning back to the old law. If a Christian departs from the gospel, they are severed from Christ and fallen from grace.

Titus 2:11-12, "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,"

Yes, the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. God's grace provides instructions. This agrees with the verses previously listed. If we were saved by grace alone, then all men would be saved. If we were saved by grace alone and all men are not saved, then that would make God a liar and respecter of persons.

God does not want anyone to perish (2 Pet 3:9). Yet, most people will be lost (Matt 7:13-14).

God is no respecter of people - Acts 10:34-35 "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (also Rom 2:11, Eph 6:9)

I Pet 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

If one is saved by grace alone, why is judgment going to be according to every man's work? There are other passages to support this concept, judgment according to what we do. The work cannot earn or merit salvation. It would be ludicrous for someone to teach otherwise. However, unless we keep his commandments, we cannot know God (I Jn 2:3-5).

In Christ is where we have the redeeming grace - Rom 3:24.

 

Hello KJ.

Arminian teachers that are Christian are saved anyway but you lead people astray. If a person comes to you you will tell them that faith must originate in them and damned they are for sure.
MT 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
I don't preach to convert but to correct error for the faith of God's elect. And of course, to wind Arminians up!

To believe is a work and works do not save God does.

john.

 

Hello KJ.

What? Do you mean it has no verse numbers in that there bible of yours? That's strange.
It's a real book! Is it? A real book HaHa! I have forgotten that there is more than cut and paste! Still the verse numbers are needed.

Arminian is the bottom line at best.

You said it was scripture it was not scripture it was paraphrased!

I spend no time trying to convert anyone but in obedience I got onto the discussion forums in the belief I might learn and teach and both have been realised.

Half my lies ain't true? Playing with words is fun and you disapprove of what you do? Losing are you?

You keep saying this;
But yet you say you were saved before the foundation of the world?
Although you have been told that is not a belief held by Calvinists. Why do you keep saying it, could it be that you complain about what you do as I said way way ago?

You're just trying to get me into trouble?

john.

 

"You said it was scripture it was not scripture it was paraphrased!"
How could something I copied word for word be paraphrased? As for the verse numbers, no that is not needed when I am giving you a passage of three verses. Not needed at all. You are just trying to cause strife.

"Arminian teachers that are Christian are saved anyway but you lead people astray. If a person comes to you you will tell them that faith must originate in them and damned they are for sure."
Care to back that up with facts? I have never said faith must originate in them.

"To believe is a work and works do not save God does." Funny...Scripture disagrees with you.

"Half my lies ain't true? Playing with words is fun and you disapprove of what you do? Losing are you?" What are you talking about?

"You keep saying this;
But yet you say you were saved before the foundation of the world?
Although you have been told that is not a belief held by Calvinists. Why do you keep saying it, could it be that you complain about what you do as I said way way ago?"
No...simply because you claimed it.

"You're just trying to get me into trouble?"
You are so smart. That...and I want to know what you think I am.

 

Hello KJ.

Some are saved as by fire with no works worthy of reward by God That you said was scripture that is what I said was a paraphrase. It is not scripture. The stuff you copied I did not comment on but the verses missing.

Clarity is needed and you cannot have too much of that. Do it for me. Not on the passage given but in future.

Last thing on my mind.

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Isaiah 12:2 Surely God is my salvation...

Then I shall say I erred and unclaim it. Chosen before the foundation of the world. Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight...

French Canadian are you not?

john.

 

Man has no grace but it comes from God.

Oh I didn't thing you believed in that?

john. </font>[/QUOTE]1. WRONG! God created us all with the same "possibilities" and that includes ATTRIBUTES of which GRACE is a learned attribute of Man! Look up the definition of grace in a dictionary, it is a word commonly used in the English language.

2. I don't, but I am not changing the topic either as you are!

 

Hello Wes.

I beg your pardon.

That would be scriptural. RO 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

1 a : beneficence or generosity shown by God to man
God gives grace to all men for the working out of His purposes. He will give some a kindly disposition and to another less. All things are from God and dictionaries will express what they see man exhibiting not the Theological underpinning.

"grace." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (28 Jun. 2005).

john.

 

Jooohhon!
That is but one definition of grace! Which is good indication to the world that you are only playing games!