Is a Baptist view of the Trinity the only correct view?

[JohnDeereFan]

I am Larry, the father of my children.

I am Larry, the son of my parents.

I am Larry, the husband of my wife.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, different aspects of the same entity.

Larry, this is not a good analogy. What you're talking about is modalism.

The problem with your analogy (and, in all fairness to you, all analogies concerning the nature of God break down at some point) is that you are still Larry. Your person doesn't change, only the way you're seen by your children, parents, and wife.

God is not merely three "aspects" of the same entity, but one God revealed in three seperate and distinct persons.

While you remain Larry, God the Father is not the same person as God the Son, who is not the same person as God the HolySpirit, who is not the same person as God the Father.

 

[kyredneck]

.... it's anyone's guess how we will be able to see God in eternity.

I guess I believe the way I do from passages such as these:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1:18

for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Col 2:9

I believe that everything Jesus was, God is. To look at Christ is to see God. Christ crystallized God for us to behold, IMO. The revelation of God through the Lord Jesus Christ is most definitely a major theme, some may even say the theme, of the scriptures.

 

[kyredneck]

Larry, this is not a good analogy. What you're talking about is modalism.

The problem with your analogy (and, in all fairness to you, all analogies concerning the nature of God break down at some point) is that you are still Larry. Your person doesn't change, only the way you're seen by your children, parents, and wife.

God is not merely three "aspects" of the same entity, but one God revealed in three seperate and distinct persons.

While you remain Larry, God the Father is not the same person as God the Son, who is not the same person as God the HolySpirit, who is not the same person as God the Father.

Well, at least I gave it a shot with an analogy. I know that the three are one.

Anyone have a better one? (analogy that is)

 

[kyredneck]

Just out of curiosity, how would your rationalization explain the baptism of Christ where all 3 are performing different actions; ie the Son is being baptized, the Father is speaking, & the Spirit is descending?

Is the theological term for that omnipresence?

[edit] Is this not omnipresence?:

...he is not far from each one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being.... Acts 17:27,28

 

[kyredneck]

Is this not omnipresence?:

Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Jn 1:48

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

Is the theological term for that omnipresence?

[edit] Is this not omnipresence?:

...he is not far from each one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being.... Acts 17:27,28

No—the role of the Trinity at the baptism of Christ actually has nothing to do with omnipresence. The doctrine of the Trinity states that God is 1 united essence, 3 personalities (ie 3 distinct & individual persons). Omnipresence simply means God is present everywhere. Now when I talk about the simultaneous appearance of the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit at the baptism scene I am not suggesting tritheism (ie 3 Gods), but what this event does demonstrate is that they maybe 1 God, but they are distinctly 3 personalities. I personally have no idea how we will witness the Trinity in heaven, but I do have professors who theorize that we will not be able to see the Father or Holy Spirit (although thy are there they are bodiless, thus invisible) but only be able to see the Son b/c of his resurrection body. But like I said I have no idea & your guess is as good as mine on that one.

 

[webdog]

I guess I believe the way I do from passages such as these:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1:18

for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Col 2:9

I believe that everything Jesus was, God is. To look at Christ is to see God. Christ crystallized God for us to behold, IMO. The revelation of God through the Lord Jesus Christ is most definitely a major theme, some may even say the theme, of the scriptures.

I agree with all that. I do think the John 1 passage is speaking of men in our current state, though.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

I guess I believe the way I do from passages such as these:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1:18

for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Col 2:9

I believe that everything Jesus was, God is. To look at Christ is to see God. Christ crystallized God for us to behold, IMO. The revelation of God through the Lord Jesus Christ is most definitely a major theme, some may even say the theme, of the scriptures.

Even though your analogy of the Trinity was off, you certainly have a grasp on the fact that Jesus is God! So Amen to that!

 

[kyredneck]

.....1 God, but they are distinctly 3 personalities......

If I rephrase the analogy thus:

I am Larry, the father of my children.

I am Larry, the son of my parents.

I am Larry, the husband of my wife.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, three different personalities of the same entity.

...does it make it more palatable? Larry definitely poses three distinct personalities to each of the above mentioned.

 

[webdog]

Well, at least I gave it a shot with an analogy. I know that the three are one.

Anyone have a better one? (analogy that is)

The only thing I can think of is playdough. One lump can be separated into three parts and still be part of the same lump :laugh:

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

If I rephrase the analogy thus:

I am Larry, the father of my children.

I am Larry, the son of my parents.

I am Larry, the husband of my wife.

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, three different personalities of the same entity.

...does it make it more palatable? Larry definitely poses a three distinct personalities to each of the above mentioned.

Good try-but no your still just one Larry—whereas God is 1 yet 3 different persons. Don’t feel bad pretty much every analogy you use-someone will be able to find something wrong. When I teach it I use the ancient triangle example, where you draw a triangle, put the name Father in 1 corner, Son in 1 corner, & Holy Spirit in the other corner. Then draw lines from each names/corners to the center of the triangle & write “is God”. Then draw arrows from each name to the other name and write “is not” (ie Father is not Son, Son is not Spirit, Spirit is not Father)—lol- it makes a lot more sense when you can actually see the diagram-lol.

 

[jbh28]

What real Biblical proof is there for the trinity as we believe it? I do believe that t is necessary for us to believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE all God but is it necessary for us to know HOW they are all God?

I don't think we'll ever understand the trinity here on earth. We know that there is one God. We know that the Father is not the Son and not the Spirit. We know that Jesus is God and the Father is God and the Spirit is God. How this works, don't know. Just believe what the Bible teaches. One reason it's difficult is that it's a doctrine that is derived from multiple passages. No one certain passage shows all the details of the trinity. It's comes from reading multiple passages and putting it all together. To me, modalism and oneness are trying to fit the trinity into our understanding instead of trying to let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[jbh28]

I guess I believe the way I do from passages such as these:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. Jn 1:18

Here shows the difference between the Father and the Son; two persons of the trinity. The Son is at the bosom of the Father.

for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily Col 2:9

Yes, Jesus Christ was fully man and fully God here on earth.

 

[canadyjd]

What real Biblical proof is there for the trinity as we believe it? I do believe that t is necessary for us to believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ARE all God but is it necessary for us to know HOW they are all God?

Evidence from scripture concerning the "triunity" of God?

God exists as one God. God exists as three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Modelism (which has been discussed in other threads) denies that God exists as three persons.

Let's take a look.

Lev. 6:4 "Hear, O Isreal! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

Jesus repeats this truth in Mark 12:29.

Just from these two passages we establish that God exists as One God.

John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

This passage establishes a relationship within the Godhead between God (later identified as the Father) and the Word (later identified as the Son).

The Word (Son) has a three-fold equality with God the Father. He has a temporal equality (in the beginning....notice the language from Gen. 1). He has a positional equality (the Word was with God....face to face). He as an equality of essence (the Word was God....or deity...everything that makes God..."God"...the Word has as well.)

John 1:2 makes clear that a different "person" is being spoken of. "He (literally...this One) was in the beginning with God".

So, scripture has established that God exists as One God and as more than one person.

What about Holy Spirit?

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your rememberance all that I said to you."

The passage makes clear that Holy Spirit exists as a separate person from God the Father and God the Son. "the Father will send in My name, He will teach you..."

Acts 5:3 "But Peter said to Ananias, why has Satan filled you heart to lie the Holy Spirit........(4)....You have not lied to men, but to God."

This passage establishes that Holy Spirit is God.

So, these passages (and many others BTW) establish the truth that God exists as One God and that God exists as Three Persons.

Someone earlier spoke of the mystery of God. Since there is no one like God that exists, we have no one to compare Him to (all analogies fail at some point).

God condescends to us, revealing truth about Himself, how He exists. Everything He has taught us is true, but I don't believe we are able to comprehend any more than what He has revealed to us.

That being said, we ought to believe what God has revealed in His Word.

To answer your question about how much understanding of God existence is "necessary" (I assume you mean for salvation).... logically it doesn't appear from scripture that much understanding of the nature of the Godhead is necessary for salvation.(Acts 16:31)

However, salvation is accompanied by indwelling Holy Spirit. I believe Holy Spirit convicts all Christians of the truth of God's Word and the plain meaning of it.

If, then, someone is denying God's Word on an issue that is as clear and as important as the nature of the Godhead (One God, Three Persons) it could be they are Christians in need of more instruction or it could mean (after repeatedly rejecting the truth of God's Word) that they aren't really Christians.

In the final analysis, we can't know for certain which one of these options apply to the person who denies the triunity, because we cannot see inside them and determine if Holy Spirit indwells.

We may, imho, say that such a person as would repeatedly deny the triune nature of the Godhead shouldn't have assurance of their salvation since they are denying a great truth that God has seen fit to reveal to us, His children, about Himself.

peace to youraying: