Is a little alcohol alright with the Bible?

T4Texas said:

We are free! We can drink what we want. We can drink ourselves stupid if we want to.

Nonsense. We are never free to do what the bible calls sin.

 

Hey, Tee-four-Texas!
These bunch of Baptist boozers won't listen! But lets keep trying!
Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Blackbird, tone it down. I am against alchohol for consumption in any instance.

 

Brother Preachtheword,

Thanks, man! I'm with you seemingly in the minority among even a Fundamental thread! Just wondering what you are implying by asking me to tone it down?

On the posts above--I offer a challenge being as serious as a heart attack--knowing I can prove my theory on a sip by sip basis(starting EEEVVVEEERR so slightly with the first sip)--the slow, unknowning grip that alcohol takes upon a person's mind! Just thought I'd have a little Cajun/Redneck fun(shooting rifles and pistols) while I prove my point--but, there are some on the Fundy thread who want to have fun with their booze like I like to have fun with my rifle/pistol! Shoot! I was even going to give BrianT a rifle with a scope and I was going to use the one with the "Open Sights!"--Just so that he won't accuse me later of being on the "uphill" side of the pasture!

My last word is this--beginning with the first sip--they begin to be influenced by the drug called alcohol--and say, "Oh, it helps me unwind! It helps me rest at night!"--etc, etc. Social drinking over at the Pub/Tavern! Well, let them go ahead, I suppose! I can't stop 'em! I'll just rely on a more reliable source to "unwind" me and to "loosen" me up--He's called Jesus! When I have sleep problems--I don't go "pop the cork"--I call on His name! When I have muscle tension--I go to Him and rest! I won't ever have to wonder"Wow! How far can I go in Scripture without loosing control?!"

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Am I the only one who finds Blackbird's challenge highly ironic (besides missing the point of this thread)? Guns can be abused, just as alcohol can.

 

blackbird said:

My last word is this--beginning with the first sip--they begin to be influenced by the drug called alcohol

Ah, I see. You are not describing us "Baptist boozers." You are describing yourself - a weak-willed Christian who lacks self-control where alcohol is concerned. Perhaps you are a recovering alcoholic; I have know way of knowing. Either way, you believe that your personal weakness, your inability to hold your liquor, is universal to all people everywhere.

There is no other way I can reconcile your supposedly general principle with my personal experience, in which I am no more addicted to wine or beer today than I was twelve years ago when I came of age.

So please do not presume that your personal experience is my personal experience. Thanks.

 

Hey, Brother Ransom,
Lighten up, man!(or woman, I have no way of knowing! You ain't got a shot posted like Helen, GrannyGumbo, or Sherrie) Just like you have no way of knowing if I am like one of my late heroes, Jerry Clower(a tee-totler) or one of the old "Slap Stick" comedians, the late Red Skelton(aka Freddie the Free-loader).

To be truthful--I have never touched a sip of the stuff--I am an obstainer of intoxicating beverages from birth and I'll go to my grave an obstainer.

I have researched the harmful effects of tobacco and also of intoxicating beverages. I know the body that the Lord Jesus gave me at conception is a temple where He dwells--He is to have total control of every aspect of my life. If I introduce intoxicating beverages into my system--the alcohol is a drug that begins to take control at the first introduction to the system. That portion of what the Lord Jesus controls is now yielded to the alcohol--He will not control what something else does. Therefore, at the first sip--I begin to be a rebel against the Lord Jesus Christ--whether I realize it or not! Of course, I can make it quiet obvious after I finish the six-pack!

Now, for a tough question for you social drinkers out there. You guys say, "Well, if it offends my brother--then I won't do it!" Well, suppose I told you that you're posting of your drinking on a Fundamental thread is offending an obstainer--will you quit--go "Cold Turkey" for the sake of not makeing that obstainer stumble? Suppose your posts are so enticeing--that the obstainer is soon convinced that "Hey! It seems ok to them--hey, why not!" and the social drinker in a way has enticed the obstainer to reverse his feelings--the obstainer goes out and gets a buzz on about half a beer--slams into some poor soul on the way from the Pub and kills him--and you were the one who convinced the obstainer--its ok! Whos quilty according to the Scripture?

Still your Tee-toteing friend,
Blackbird

 

Hmmm. I was hoping you were telling the truth when you earlier said "My last word is this...."

Not only is that not true, and doesn't equal sin if it was, there are many other drugs I'm sure you DO take without your conscience a-twangin'.

This is ridiculous.

I don't think you understand the concepts involved in this issue of offending. You eating doughnuts might entice someone into gluttony! You shooting your gun might entice someone into armed robbery! Your antagonism in this thread might entice someone into thinking it's OK to judge and insult others!

Even you posting might offend someone, are you going to stop?

 

blackbird,
you have guts enough to talk about Christians who have an occasional glass of wine or a beer, yet have no problem admitting you love to eat a dozen donuts at a time?
Seriously - which do you think is worse? A glass of wine a day or a dozen donuts a week? As you pointed out, the body is a temple. I can't think of a much worse way of abusing it than to put lard and sugar into it. You're destroying your temple, man. I hope you at least fast on a regular basis to purge yourself of this poisonous substance.

 

blackbird said:

Lighten up, man!(or woman, I have no way of knowing!

No way of knowing? You could have clicked on my "home page" icon and seen my True Name in all its calligraphic glory, plus more information about me than anyone would ever need.

But, to make a long story short, my name is Scott, and I am decidedly male.

That portion of what the Lord Jesus controls is now yielded to the alcohol

So you believe the Lord Jesus is not more powerful than a few drops of ethanol?

He will not control what something else does.

King Jesus is lord of the universe, and his sovereign rights over my body cannot be usurped by the intake of simple hydrocarbons.

Therefore, at the first sip--I begin to be a rebel against the Lord Jesus Christ--whether I realize it or not!

Twaddle. Your position is contradictory to revealed truth. How can I "rebel against the Lord Jesus Christ" by lawfully enjoying what his own Father has blessed and given to man as a gift to gladden his heart (Psa. 104:15)? Is the Triune God divided on this? Certainly not!

Of course, I can make it quiet obvious after I finish the six-pack!

You may do so if you wish, but I will not join you in such blatant disobedience to God's rule against drunkenness.

Well, suppose I told you that you're posting of your drinking on a Fundamental thread is offending an obstainer--will you quit--go "Cold Turkey" for the sake of not makeing that obstainer stumble?

No. I am not drinking or encouraging others to join me in drinking. I am discussing what God's Word says about drinking.

Should I avoid the whole counsel of God because it offends the sensitivities of some milquetoast Christians? God forbid! "Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye" (Acts 4:19).

 

I have researched the harmful effects of overeting and also of the sin of gluttony. I know the body that the Lord Jesus gave me at conception is a temple where he dwells - he is to have total control of every aspect of my life. If I introduce potentially gluttonous substances into my system - the food begins to take control at the first introduction to the system. That portion of what the Lord Jesus controls is now yielded to food - he will not control what something else does. Therefore, at the first bite - I begin to be a rebel against the Lord Jesus Christ - whether I realize it or not! Of course, I can make it quite obvious after I finish the ten-course Chinese buffet!

Remember - if ten heaping plates of food makes you a glutton, then a sandwich makes you 1/20 gluttonous.

 

Ransom, BrianT, and others!

Boy, oh Boy! You guys are something! Just lucky ole 'Cynic is on vacation--or I'll be getting hit from all four directions.

I don't need your wine--and you don't need my doughnuts--you'll stay skinny and I'll stay sober! As General Lee told his troops after the famous surrender--"Best of luck to you boys from here on out!" But check my flag--it ain't white and as Ernest Bass would tell Andy, "You ain't seen the last of Ernest T. Bass!" Barney calls him, "The best rock thrower in the county!"--see you when the ammo truck comes back! Good night for now!

Always be your friend,
Blackbird

 

Where's the name calling, Murph? I've seen some strong opinions, but I missed the name calling.

 

Blackbird, I don't know where you are getting some of your information, but I'd really like to correct some things for any readers out there.

1. Again, a few sips of any alcohol will not affect your brain. Your body metabolizes it too quickly. That is simply a medical/biological fact.

2. In Genesis 6:9, we read that Noah was a righteous man. And yet, after the Flood he intentionally fermented wine and proceeded to get roaring, fall-down, pass-out drunk. The drunkenness I personally think was a big surprise to him because he had no idea what the decreased air pressure would do in terms of alcohol. But it is a for sure fact that if he had expected non-alcoholic grape juice with that first drink, he would have spit it out farther than a camel could! He not only tasted the wine, but he kept on drinking it. He knew what it was. And the only way he could have known is if he had made and had wine before the Flood. In Genesis 9:20, we read he was a man of the soil, or a husbandman. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew it from experience. But he was a righteous man.

Drinking wine is not rebellion against Christ.

3. There are known medical/physical benefits to red wine in moderation (I don't know about white). There are no known medical or physical benefits to doughnuts. In fact, a dozen doughnuts are a heart attack waiting to happen as well as a contributor to obesity and thus to diabetes and other problems. Anyone who consumes doughnuts to that degree is severely abusing the body God gave him. "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God...."

4. When wine or beer will do the same as a medicine, the wine or beer is much safer. Almost every medicine used today has side effects which can be devastating with even one or a few doses. With alcohol you know exactly what is happening to your body if you have too much and then you will recover. This is not referring to binge or dare drinking -- which can kill first time out -- but to normal glass-of-wine or beer drinking. You know where you stand with it and you can stop the second you feel affect you. You cannot do that with a pill. You swallow it and hope it works. And hope it won't hurt you. At least too much...

I have wine in the house. I do not have beer simply because I don't drink it. My husband will not touch anything alcoholic because he chooses not to. But it does not bother him if I have a glass of wine occasionally. Why should it bother you?

If I am around people who do not like alcohol, I don't touch it. If I am with friends who are having wine with dinner, if I feel like it I will have a glass, too. Often I prefer water anyway.

Alcohol in small amounts is not only not bad or evil, it can be beneficial. Salt is necessary in small amounts but can kill in large amounts. Even good old arsenic has been found to be extremely beneficial for a particular eye problem.

Doughnuts have never been found to be beneficial to anyone in any amount. That makes them worse than arsenic.

Too much anesthesia kills. Not enough and surgery would be just a little tough for the patient!

What do doughnuts do?

Yeah, I like one once in awhile, too. But I ALWAYS feel guilty when I do, knowing that, as I get older, those calories are just not as easy to get rid of as they used to be.

So I'll have just a half a doughnut with an ounce or two of cabernet sauvignon, please...

On the other hand, leave out the doughnut. That would destroy the wine! I'll have some crackers instead, with maybe a little cream cheese on them...

 

From the lips of Tee-toter Blackbird:

If ole Murph allows me--I have a big question to ask the board--but can't ask it right now because I am wrapping up its(the question) work in my lab! But when it comes--like Jackie Gleason use to say--"I'll send you to the moon!"

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

I have an opinion, if you would like to hear it!
I agree with everyone here !! I will explain why. I do not think having an occasional glass of wine would be considered sinful.
On the other hand, the over-all view upon alcohol in the United States is probably different than it is in other countries. For example: In Italy, a glass of wine with meals is a normal event. In fact, they even sell it at Mcdonalds with meals!!
So, in a different cultural setting, it is viewed different. In the U.S. we have more people die due to drunk driving than in the vietnam war! We have more people abusing alcohol than anywhere else in the world. Alcohol is considered a drug, it is considered to be a depressant. So, people smoking pot may use the same arguement that just a little is okay.
I say this while agreeing that a little wine will not harm you. I think the same ones saying this would also agree that we should never allow our liberty to become a stumbling block for those who are weaker.
I am also wondering if the same people who want the freedom to use a little wine, would in return give the freedom to women to dress as they feel led.
Freedom and liberty in Christ is a great thing. I think it is just how we use that freedom, and how it affects others.
Naomi

 

OK! Here's the question that'll send you to the moon! I go to Krispy Kreme and buy a dozen of those babies--and I pay a certain amount for sales tax(usually 7-8%). Then the clerk goes to putting the box in one of those plastic sacks with the handles on it so I can carry the box out to the truck! I tell the sweet lady, "No thank you, M'am! I don't need a bag!" She says, "OooKee, Dough-Kee!" and away I go!

But you go to buy liquor/intoxicating beverages(of any type) and what is the name of the tax that is levied against the stuff?? What's the tax called??? That's right, boys & girls! We call it a "Sin Tax!"--don't we? I can't give my money to a tax called that! Someone please elaborate on the tax called "Sin Tax!"

Then, say I buy a bottle of, say, the cheapiest wine Winn-Dixie has. How come the caps are all sealed with this stuff--and you can't open it in the store or in the parking lot? And how come when the clerk goes to putting it in a sack(opaque brown paper)--and I say, "That's OK! I don't need that sack!"--she has to say, "I can't sell it without the sack!"

And how come I can walk across the parking lot of Jitney-Jungle, pop the top on a Coca-cola and can guzzle(chug-a-lug) the whole thing down and never have to worry about the "copper" coming to get me and write me some sort of citation for having an open container--but I can't do that with an intoxicating beverage--even if I'm not abuseing it?

And how come I can be driving along in the truck and can have a open container of Chek cola on the dash--and a cop is coming in my direction in his lane--I can take the Chek--and hold it up in sort of a salute to him as he passes by--but if I try that with an intoxicating beverage--its "Blue Lights, Baby!" And he'll have me breath into this little 1/4 inch clear tube and touch my nose with my index finger--even when I am not abusing the stuff!?

And how come intoxicating beverages are not allowed on the Little League baseball parks here in Mississippi--even when everyone drinking promises not to abuse the stuff? And how come I can go down to Baton Rouge and Tiger Stadium--walk right past the ticket person--holding an unopen can of Coca-cola and he doesn't say a word--but I have to hide my intoxicating beverage in some sort of fake binocular case if I want to get in with it? Even if I plan on not abuseing it?

And how come if its not harmful--do you have to be twenty-one to buy it--but a little toddler can buy a Chek cola and get away with it?

If intoxicating beverages are that troublesome to sinful man--how come God doesn't have trouble with it?? Would God buy a beer for a minor? Boy, I can see it now! My seven year old boy is outside 7-Eleven and up drives Jesus and my boy says, "Jesus! Will you go inside and buy me a beer! I promise I won't abuse it! Please!?" And I can just hear Jesus saying, "Sure, Jeckle(Blackbird's son) Be glad to do it! After all, all things are lawful and clean!"

Any comments before your rocket leaves for the moon?

I'll always be your friend,
Blackbird

 

Blackbird, in both this country and in my husband's country, Australia, "driving under the influence" includes drugs -- the legal ones, too.

No one is disputing that too much alcohol can impair vision and judgment -- or worse. So can a number of prescription medications, and if you show impairment while you are driving, it doesn't matter WHAT is in your system that has impaired you, you will be taken in and your car impounded.

Is taking Nyquil sinful? Is taking an antihistamine rebellion against God? Is taking pain medication evil?

Take a pill-size sip of even vodka and nothing will happen (except your mouth may sting!) -- but any one of those tablets/capsules can severely affect your judgement and wakefulness.

It is the amount that counts. That is why the states and countries have a certain alcohol blood level that is considered dangerous -- below that is not dangerous.

Sin tax? I am unaware of any tax on liquor being called that in any law book. If you choose to call it that, that is your business.

Brown bags? Again, we are talking about the abuse of alcohol resulting in certain laws.

Children and teens? I hope you are extremely careful with any medications given children. That's why they have child-proof caps. This does not mean the medications are bad; simply dangerous for younger folk.

In the meantime, your evidently preferred diet of doughnuts and cokes is making me feel rather sick to my stomach. I prefer food rather than that kind of poison, thank you. As a matter of fact, there is a stew starting to simmer on the stove right now which I will serve tomorrow evening for some guests which are coming in. The smell is lovely and it means good food, not junk.



I hope you enjoy your trip to the moon, because my feet are planted firmly on the ground.

 

That's your big question???

Don't confuse the law of the land with God's absolute standard of morality. You can't have an open alcoholic beverage while driving a vehicle because that is the law (where you live). You cannot have have alcoholic beverages in Little League parks because that is the law (where you live).

Just because it is illegal to drink and drive does not mean having a glass of wine with dinner is a sin. Your logic is faulty.

Wow, that was a *really* hard question. When do I go to the moon?