Is Al Mohler Right?

[Van]

Thank you for acknowledging scripture does not claim Paul left Pricilla in a leadership role over men in the church at Ephesus.

Back to the OP…

Since the SBC is not a “church”, there should be no restriction on women serving in leadership roles over men, even to be the Pres.

peace to you

I never made any such claim, as such a claim would be based on speculation consistent with a biased view.
The issue is whether or not Paul's restriction upon born anew women is simply a cultural accommodation given the paternalistic time of the 1st century, or whether those restrictions are timeless.

 

[canadyjd]

I never made any such claim, as such a claim would be based on speculation consistent with a biased view.
The issue is whether or not Paul's restriction upon born anew women is simply a cultural accommodation given the paternalistic time of the 1st century, or whether those restrictions are timeless.

Well, what’s your view? Timeless? Or paternalistic cultural views of the first century?

Since Paul basis his restriction upon scripture, I favor timeless view.

Again, to claim it’s simply “cultural” you must acknowledge other groups, specifically G:y rights groups make the same claim that such restrictions upon g:y couples is cultural, not biblical.

peace to you

 

[Jerome]

liberal

compromising

liberals

Oh brother.

In 2019, Adrian's Rogers successor as pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church, Steve Gaines, was pushing for a woman to oversee the publication of all the SBC's Bible Studies, commentaries, and Bibles:

Gaines: "Why shouldn’t the next President of LifeWay be a competent, Godly woman? I see no biblical reason LifeWay has to be led by a man or a former pastor."


Gaines: "Great article by Dr. Jim Richards re: new leadership in the SBC. And I agree with him 100% re: new leadership possibilities at LifeWay."

 

[Jerome]

Gaines was referring to a recent article by fellow Conservative, Jim Richards, Executive Director of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. Richards had written: "At LifeWay I would...advocate for a woman to be considered for the president’s position. There have to be hundreds of Southern Baptist women who are capable".

[instead of a Conservative woman, Ben Mandrell ended up succeeding Thom Rainer as President of that SBC entity]

Jim Richards' stained glass portrait from the SWBTS chapel gallery 'Heroes of the Conservative Resurgence':

 

[SavedByGrace]

Oh brother.

In 2019, Adrian's Rogers successor as pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church, Steve Gaines, was pushing for a woman to oversee the publication of all the SBC's Bible Studies, commentaries, and Bibles:

Gaines: "Why shouldn’t the next President of LifeWay be a competent, Godly woman? I see no biblical reason LifeWay has to be led by a man or a former pastor."
View attachment 9604

Gaines: "Great article by Dr. Jim Richards re: new leadership in the SBC. And I agree with him 100% re: new leadership possibilities at LifeWay."
View attachment 9605

all you really have to do is to check what the Bible actually Teaches, and not quote from some who compromise what the Bible is clear on!

Here again is what THE BIBLE says

12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent. 13 For Adam was created first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. - 1 Timothy 2

what part of these words do you think supports in any way, that a woman can "have authority over, or govern" (αὐθεντέω) when an adult male is present?

No amount of human "evidences" that you show, can ever counter what Almighty God says in His Infallible Word!

 

[Van]

Well, what’s your view? Timeless? Or paternalistic cultural views of the first century?

Since Paul basis his restriction upon scripture, I favor timeless view.

Again, to claim it’s simply “cultural” you must acknowledge other groups, specifically G:y rights groups make the same claim that such restrictions upon g:y couples is cultural, not biblical.

peace to you

Finally a post of complete merit!
My view is the restriction is general in nature, and exceptions to effectively carry out the ministry of Christ are not forbidden. However, I have not, as yet completely studied the subject, so my view is based on only part of what God has to say on the subject.

Nothing wrong with favoring the timeless view, since in conservative circles it is the mainstream view.

Yes, other restrictions, such as not to engage in homosexual activity, must also be studied. In that particular case, I find absolutely no support for accepting such behavor, whereas scripture does support women providing essential ministries.

How does Esther or Ruth or Rahab or Mary the mother of Mark, or the grandmother of Timothy fit into the "absolute restriction" picture? In my view, they do not.

 

[canadyjd]

Finally a post of complete merit!
My view is the restriction is general in nature, and exceptions to effectively carry out the ministry of Christ are not forbidden. However, I have not, as yet completely studied the subject, so my view is based on only part of what God has to say on the subject.

Nothing wrong with favoring the timeless view, since in conservative circles it is the mainstream view.

Yes, other restrictions, such as not to engage in homosexual activity, must also be studied. In that particular case, I find absolutely no support for accepting such behavor, whereas scripture does support women providing essential ministries.

How does Esther or Ruth or Rahab or Mary the mother of Mark, or the grandmother of Timothy fit into the "absolute restriction" picture? In my view, they do not.

The restriction is to teaching and/or having authority over men in the church, so the restriction in those cases do not apply.

Obviously, God has used women to accomplish His purposes throughout history.

Deborah was an OT prophetess who God put in charge of the Hebrew army and led them into battle. A careful study of that passage reveals this appointment by God was for the purpose of shaming the men who didn’t trust God and feared His enemies.

This is one of the exceptions you mentioned.

So, “timeless” but not absolute.

In many churches, imo, if women didn’t do most of the work in ministry, very little work would get done.

peace to you

 

[Van]

The restriction is to teaching and/or having authority over men in the church, so the restriction in those cases do not apply.

Obviously, God has used women to accomplish His purposes throughout history.

Deborah was an OT prophetess who God put in charge of the Hebrew army and led them into battle. A careful study of that passage reveals this appointment by God was for the purpose of shaming the men who didn’t trust God and feared His enemies.

This is one of the exceptions you mentioned.

So, “timeless” but not absolute.

In many churches, imo, if women didn’t do most of the work in ministry, very little work would get done.

peace to you

For example when a "church" met in Mary's home, do we know if she engaged in discussion or remained silent? In Timothy's home, were his views obtained from this father, or from his mother and grandmother?

If a teenage boy is molded by women, and then carries that faith into adulthood, can we say women did not exercise authority over a man?

And if we want to slice it even more thinly, women often did not usurp the authority of men, but rather filled the need vacated by men. For example, Peter was known at Mary's, the mother of John Mark, house, so when Peter was not present could others, perhaps female, fill the void?

 

[Van]

Years ago, I helped teach a "small group" that met at another couples home. One week I taught, the next week the husband of the couple taught, but always the wife contributed to our discussion.

 

[canadyjd]

For example when a "church" met in Mary's home, do we know if she engaged in discussion or remained silent? In Timothy's home, were his views obtained from this father, or from his mother and grandmother?

If a teenage boy is molded by women, and then carries that faith into adulthood, can we say women did not exercise authority over a man?

And if we want to slice it even more thinly, women often did not usurp the authority of men, but rather filled the need vacated by men. For example, Peter was known at Mary's, the mother of John Mark, house, so when Peter was not present could others, perhaps female, fill the void?

Mother and grandmother played big role in Timothy’s upbringing. Paul considered him to be his own son so I suspect Paul had a very large role in his teaching. No doubt the women contributed in a big way.

It is speculation as to the role women played in a house church meeting in a woman’s home. It is better, imo, to believe they were following Paul’s instructions concerning male leadership.

peace to you

 

[Jerome]

Chairwoman of Southeastern Seminary's Board of Trustees: 'God opens the door' | Baptist Press

 

[Jerome]

Eunie Smith elected Chairwoman of SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission | Baptist Press

 

[Jerome]

Renée Trewick elected Chairwoman by the Trustees of Guidestone, the Annuity Board of the Southern Baptist Convention | Baptist Press

 

[Jerome]

Trustee Chairwoman Erin Bounds "grateful for the opportunity to lead" SBC's North American Mission Board | Baptist Press

 

[Jerome]

SBC's ERLC Trustees elect Lori Bova as Chairwoman.| Baptist Press

 

[Jerome]

Missie Branch, Director of Graduate Life at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, elected Chairwoman of the Board of Trusteees of SBC's Lifeway Christian Resources | Baptist Press

 

[Zenas]

That was a very interesting watch, worthwhile for the time spent taking it it. But if it had any bearing on whether women should hold places of authority outside the church, I surely missed it.