Is anyone interested in "the baptism with the Holy Spirit"?

[HankD]

Our emotions didn't get any Promise of any Miraculous, Instantaneous Gifts, such as those Promised to the 11 in Mark 16, or Given to Paul, or the 70.

And don't have or experience any.

I will Love saying The Holy Spirit through The Word, and Jesus through Prayer, and Belief and Faith Avail Much.

In fact what can the first three Not do?, besides sin?

You are the expert - tell us.

 

[Samuels]

According to the text of the original language
I am IN the Holy Ghost presently and eternally.

Actually, the Holy Spirit is INSIDE you (and Paul says this in 7 different verses).
When BACs are baptized WITH (or IN) the Holy Spirit, He falls UPON them.
There are 7 Spirit baptism passages where UPON is used.
IMO, being baptized "IN" agrees better with UPON (than does "WITH").

 

[HankD]

Actually, the Holy Spirit is INSIDE you (and Paul says this in 7 different verses).
When BACs are baptized WITH (or IN) the Holy Spirit, He falls UPON them.
There are 7 Spirit baptism passages where UPON is used.
IMO, being baptized "IN" agrees better with UPON (than does "WITH").

yes thanks - i knew that - its like a cup submersed in water.
I am in the water, the water is in me.

 

[Dave G]

It is like being filled to overflowing (with tongues overflowing as a result).

No tongues when I was filled...only a very strong clarity, knowing I am loved, and knowing Him, spirit to Spirit ( Romans 8:16 ).

I felt very bold, very calm, very peaceful and very joyful.

 

[Dave G]

Most people believe that this "baptism with the Holy Spirit"
is confirmed to the person and to those nearby ... via ...
at least a few words in tongues.

I do not.
I happen to believe that Scripture states only one baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that is what is often referred to as "POC", or point of conversion...when one first believes the Gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 ).

Each subsequent moving of the Holy Spirit is being filled with Him...not another "baptism".

 

[Ben Labelle]

Here's an extensive study of the matter:

https://faithsaves.net/wp-content/u...ted-Historical-EventCorrectUpdatedVersion.pdf

 

[HankD]

Here's an extensive study of the matter:

https://faithsaves.net/wp-content/u...ted-Historical-EventCorrectUpdatedVersion.pdf

Though it is extensive, scholarly and closer to the truth, I disagree.

they do not accept the teaching of the universal church and therefore are in serious error IMO.

"It is not a universal and invisible church, because no such entity is found in the New Testament" (page 18).
"The major metaphors for the church also demonstrate that the idea of a universal, invisible church is false" (page19).

The scripture they stumble upon is:

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Benjamin]

"The baptism with the Holy Spirit" is different than receiving
the Holy Spirit INSIDE at the time when one is initially saved.

Elsewhere, we are discussing this with great interest,
and I thought maybe some here would like to do likewise.

I hearing from the Op and other recent posts on these subjects the proselytizing of 2 salvations, (that more is needed) which he claims there is great interest in.

From the same poster I hear that faith is not enough and that works must follow. Perhaps he speaks of 2 kingdoms? The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven? One must hold on to reach the second salvation of the Kingdom?

Hmm, but I smell a backload of a second type kingdom salvation with works. - its been a while but familiarity with hearing such doctrines is rushing in as well as why I have objected to them.

Perhaps the OPer would like to explain to "me" if he sees that there is a distinction between eternal salvation and salvation of the soul? Because, I suspect he believes something else is required, besides faith, not for eternal salvation no ("when one is "initially" saved and receives everything"), but to stand before Christ blameless on that day one is going to have to prove themselves, eh? Am I getting close?

What do you say Samuel?

 

[1689Dave]

All true believers are born again including those in the Old Testament. The Baptism is the New Birth expanded through repentance at a New Covenant level into the fullness of the Spirit. The Gifts of the Spirit in Acts are now replaced by the completed canon of scripture.

 

[37818]

"The baptism with the Holy Spirit" is different than receiving
the Holy Spirit INSIDE at the time when one is initially saved.

False. The Holy Scripture refers to the "baptism of the Holy Spirit," Matthew 3:11-12 with not recieving the baptism of fire, verse 12 ". . . he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." And the baptism of the Holy Spirit is synomymous with receiving the Holy Spirit, Acts of the Apostles 11:15-17 referring to the event of Acts of the Apostles 10:44-45. See also John 7:39 with John 16:7.

 

[Ben Labelle]

Though it is extensive, scholarly and closer to the truth, I disagree.

they do not accept the teaching of the universal church and therefore are in serious error IMO.

"It is not a universal and invisible church, because no such entity is found in the New Testament" (page 18).
"The major metaphors for the church also demonstrate that the idea of a universal, invisible church is false" (page19).

The scripture they stumble upon is:

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That verse is explained starting on p. 18.

 

[HankD]

That verse is explained starting on p. 18.

The conclusion is wrong and promotes ERROR.

The hermeneutic of the passage is obtained by simply reading the verse.

 

[Ben Labelle]

The conclusion is wrong and promotes ERROR.

The hermeneutic of the passage is obtained by simply reading the verse.

This is only an assertion, though. You have failed to deal with the arguments themselves.

 

[HankD]

This is only an assertion, though. You have failed to deal with the arguments themselves.

repeat - the arguments are error - read the verse:


1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

How much simpler can it be?
20 or 30 pages of pedantic scholarship can't change it now or forever.

 

[Ben Labelle]

repeat - the arguments are error - read the verse:


1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

How much simpler can it be?
20 or 30 pages of pedantic scholarship can't change it now or forever.

Pp. 18-41 deal entirely with this verse. I don't know whether you've actually read it, for you have not dealt with a single point raised in the paper. It's assertion after assertion. For obvious reasons I won't go over all the arguments.

I ask you to look at all the passages Ross brings up and read them as he would. When you consider things from this alternate angle, you might see why he interprets things as he does.

 

[HankD]

Pp. 18-41 deal entirely with this verse. I don't know whether you've actually read it, for you have not dealt with a single point raised in the paper. It's assertion after assertion. For obvious reasons I won't go over all the arguments.

I ask you to look at all the passages Ross brings up and read them as he would. When you consider things from this alternate angle, you might see why he interprets things as he does.

Yes I read the pages and while there is a lot of information there is nothing new or substantive.
e.g.
"The body of Christ, referred to in 1 Corinthians 12:13, is the particular, local assembly. It is not a universal and invisible church, because no such entity is found in the New Testament"

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I beg the differ the entity is found here:
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

MY CHURCH not MY CHURCHES...

An unacceptable practice of those who want to focus only upon the local churches is to call AND ADD TO the title of "universal church" - the "Invisible church" - WHICH I DO NOT.

Those who use that label mean the "unseen church" - those of other local churches who we do not know as well as the myriads in heaven who have gone on before us.

this argument (it quickly evolves from as debate) happens every few months here and because it almost always ends in ad hominems flying to and fro I do not remain too long in the verbal bombs and missiles once the war begins so I may bow out SOON.

you can scan the archives and find the sophomoric arguments and the war of words.

Don't get me wrong , I love a good spirited debate, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better in the venue of my school days where the debate was a tool of hermeneutics to learn and not a didactic of insult.

There seems a few subjects here at the BB which trips the war klaxons such as Calvin vs. Arius or the Penal Substitutionary Atonement of Jesus Christ.

I am settled in with my belief of BOTH the Universal Church and the great importance of the Local Churches in the NT.

 

[Samuels]

No tongues when I was filled...only a very strong clarity, knowing I am loved, and knowing Him, spirit to Spirit ( Romans 8:16 ).
I felt very bold, very calm, very peaceful and very joyful.

Yes, this is terrific ... and I am extremely happy for you!

FYI, brother, most Spirit-filled BACs believe that tongues is the
necessary confirmation of receiving this baptism (not salvation).

However, obviously there can be exceptions.

IMO, God is not much into the black and white thing.
There are so many variables in peoples' lives.

Like FAITH ... there are many levels of faith.
E.G. there is the spiritual power gift of faith (1 Cor 12).
Faith is stronger in BACs who have this gift than other BACs.

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the pre-requisite for
receiving any of the 9 spiritual power gifts in 1 Cor 12.
Almost always. Exception: BACS with one or more of
these 9 have them in a much less powerful degree.

 

[Samuels]

I happen to believe that Scripture states only one baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that is what is often referred to as "POC", or point of conversion...when one first believes the Gospel ( Ephesians 1:13 ). Each subsequent moving of the Holy Spirit is being filled with Him...not another "baptism".

First, let us remember that Paul was writing to "the faithful" believers in Ephesus,
and NOT to the unfaithful ones! ... Faithful believers are the obedient ones.

IMO, your Eph 1:13 refers to receiving the Holy Spirit INSIDE,
which is a sign to the spirit world ...
(1) that you have been positionally sanctified
(2) that the Holy Spirit will be taking you through the process of sanctification

I don't know exactly which baptism Paul was referring to in Eph. 4:5,
but Hebrews 6:2 talks about "baptisms".
I see at least 4 different baptisms ...

(1) -- Baptism into the church (salvation) --- the Holy Spirit is the baptizer
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:13)
The Holy Spirit takes up residence INSIDE the believer … John 14:16-23; Romans 8:11;
1 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 4:6; 2 Timothy 1:14; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:12-16.

(2) -- Baptism in water (symbolic demonstration of faith) --- man is the baptizer
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism
into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.” (Romans 6:3-4)

(3) -- Baptism with the Holy Spirit (mostly power for ministry) --- Jesus is the baptizer
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with the Holy Spirit
… Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33.
The "baptism with the Holy Spirit" can come after being born again (or at the same time).
7 verses say that for this baptism, the Holy Spirit comes UPON the believer, for example:
“… the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered
the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall
be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ” (Acts 11:15-16)

(4) -- Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptizer
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire.
“He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16)
Jesus asks His 12 disciples if they are able and willing to be martyrs after Him …
“Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the
baptism that I am baptized with? … You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized
with the baptism that I am baptized with …” (Matthew 20:22-23, Mark 10:38-39)

All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire:
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

 

[37818]

FYI, brother, most Spirit-filled BACs believe that tongues is the
necessary confirmation of receiving this baptism (not salvation).

Which is understood to contradict 1 Corithians 12:30. ". . .do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? . . ." The answer being, no. ". . . μη παντες γλωσσαις λαλουσι; μη παντες διερμηνευουσι . . . . "

 

[37818]

(4) -- Baptism with fire (extreme suffering for the gospel’s sake) --- Jesus is the baptiser
John the Baptist proclaimed that Jesus is the One who baptizes with fire.

". . . with unquenchable fire. . . ." Matthew 3:12; ". . . he will burn with fire unquenchable. . . ." Luke 3:17. ". . . that never shall be quenched. . . ." -- Mark 9:43. That immersion being the lake of fire, Revelation 20:15.