Is anyone interested in "the baptism with the Holy Spirit"?

[Samuels]

Perhaps the OPer would like to explain to "me" if he sees that there is a distinction between eternal salvation and salvation of the soul? Because, I suspect he believes something else is required, besides faith, not for eternal salvation no ("when one is "initially" saved and receives everything"), but to stand before Christ blameless
on that day one is going to have to prove themselves, eh? Am I getting close?
What do you say Samuels?

No distinction at all.

I say what the NT says ... Have you not noticed
all of the many dire warnings to the churches about:
losing salvation,
gaining eternal death,
being estranged from Christ,
falling from grace,
drawing back to perdition,
not being allowed into the kingdom of God,
not being allowed into the city of New Jerusalem,
being blotted out of the Book of Life,
etc. etc. etc.

 

[Samuels]

All true believers are born again including those in the Old Testament. The Baptism is the New Birth expanded through repentance at a New Covenant level into the fullness of the Spirit. The Gifts of the Spirit in Acts are now replaced by the completed canon of scripture.

This is all a pile of garbage! ... Congratulations are in order, and may you rest in peace.

 

[1689Dave]

This is all a pile of garbage! ... Congratulations are in order, and may you rest in peace.

You cannot understand Acts apart from understanding this.

 

[Samuels]

The Gifts of the Spirit in Acts are now replaced by the completed canon of scripture.
You cannot understand Acts apart from understanding this.

OK, OK ... I'll bite ... Please explain ... maybe It will help someone.

 

[1689Dave]

OK, OK ... I'll bite ... Please explain ... maybe It will help someone.

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit = all the faithful in the OT were born again. In Acts 2:38 repentance leads to receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The gifts only came through the two outpourings where one or more Apostles were present. Or through the hands of an apostle. The gifts ended with the Apostles being replaced by the completed NT canon.

 

[37818]

dire warnings to the churches about:
losing salvation,

There are not any such teachings in the New Testament.

 

[rockytopva]

Lady in our Pentecostal Holiness church speaking in tongues... Decently... And in order.

 

[37818]

How was it not contrary to ". . . and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 14:27-28? Ignoring 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, its meaning cannot be what it says.

And if we had a translation, transcribed what God the Holy Spirit said, it should be published (Matthew 4:4).

 

[rockytopva]

How was it not contrary to ". . . and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. . . ." -- 1 Corinthians 14:27-28? Ignoring 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, its meaning cannot be what it says.

And if we had a translation, transcribed what God the Holy Spirit said, it should be published (Matthew 4:4).

"Forbid not to speak with tongues...."

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

Forbid not.... Don't disallow it.

 

[Benjamin]

No distinction at all.

Correct, therefore you must forego Eternal Salvation of one’s soul because you believe this salvation can be lost. IOWs if you do not believe in Eternal Salvation why would you see a distinction, yet, me thinks you invent another step involving a works based or 2nd salvation to facilitate security. Clever answer, but I find it rather deceptive or conveniently incomplete.

I say what the NT says ... Have you not noticed
all of the many dire warnings to the churches about:

No you don’t say what the NT says at all, just present your strange interpretations which will ultimately be revealed here that you preach a 2nd salvation, have you not noticed the NT says that:

Jesus said He gives Eternal Salvation and these will not be taken out of His hand: (John 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

God shall not cast away His people: (Rom 11:1) I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Salvation comes by faith wherein once this happens we are secure in Christ:

Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

not being allowed into the kingdom of God,
not being allowed into the city of New Jerusalem,

Ah, that is what I’m waiting for, do tell me more about what it takes to “be allowed” into the Kingdom of Heaven?

My previous written notes on this subject:
There is only one way to be perfect enough to be received into the kingdom of Heaven and that is by being in Him and our righteousness is seen in that faith by believing that He has done the works and the works are His alone. How can one have truly confessed Him in their hearts while claiming that our own earthly works are of value to save our soul by these divisions when we are told those works are nothing but rags… well, I don’t know how else to put it...we shall know them by their fruits.

We then get into the differences of what is the motivation and I feel those trying to divide the Word to form divisions of the body of Christ are doing so in order to explain why a “Christian” should be obedient in his work but again the concern is the point being missed of the love of the truth and trust that God has given us Grace. It is so simply explained as it confounds the wise in their ways that once we are saved we are obedient in that love for our Father as a child of a God and in Christ we are free indeed.

Saved is saved is saved is saved! There are no divisions and no other added ways; I really think the confusion is in taking the instructions to the saints to keep and quicken them and then applying those instructions by separating them into a second salvation to prove a doctrine that seems to make sense for the purposes of motivation to be obedient. While certainly these instructions are seen throughout the Bible and it is admirable to teach obedience there is a reason it is seen and that is for the purpose to reveal the truth to us of God’s Grace and give us the faith we need to live in that belief.

 

[Samuels]

The gifts ended with the Apostles being replaced by the completed NT canon.

You're in the deep dark ages past ...
IMO, all denominations have FINALLY seen the light that
1 Corinthians 13:10 refers to none other than Jesus Himself.

 

[Samuels]

Lady in our Pentecostal Holiness church speaking in tongues... Decently... And in order.

Is this Pentecostal Oneness (who don't believe in the Trinity)?
Just checking.

 

[Marooncat79]

"The baptism with the Holy Spirit" is different than receiving
the Holy Spirit INSIDE at the time when one is initially saved.

Elsewhere, we are discussing this with great interest,
and I thought maybe some here would like to do likewise.

The first paragraph is totally incorrect

Much like almost everything you post here

 

[Samuels]

Jesus said He gives Eternal Salvation and these will not be taken out of His hand:
John 10:28 -- And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Please don't conveniently ignore the previous verse,
which is John 10:27.

Do you hear Jesus voice? ... I.E. are you led by God's Spirit (Romans 8:14)?
Does Jesus know you? ... W.E.Vine says knew in Matt 7:23 means approved of.
Do you follow Jesus? ... Those who follow Jesus are faithful, i.e. obedient.

So, how is your John 10:28 looking to you now, Benji?

 

[Samuels]

The first paragraph is totally incorrect
Much like almost everything you post here

Sorry, for offending your sensibilities ...
I just didn't realize that you are a spiritual guru, expert, genius, etc.
Again, sorry, SIR.
(Aaaaah, best not ask what SIR stands for.)

 

[Marooncat79]

No just orthodox

You should consider it.

Then again your heresy is mostly due to your totally unteachable spirit

 

[Benjamin]

So, how is your John 10:28 looking to you now, Benji?

That I am secure in faith, Sammy.

Would you like to answer the rest of my post now? Hence, salvation on the condition of faith, not a round-a-about systematic doctrine of salvation by works.

 

[rockytopva]

Is this Pentecostal Oneness (who don't believe in the Trinity)?
Just checking.

Our founder was Abner Blackmon, a Methodist evangelist who did not even believe in speaking in tongues. We are not Oneness.

 

[Dave G]

First, let us remember that Paul was writing to "the faithful" believers in Ephesus,
and NOT to the unfaithful ones!

There is no such thing as an unfaithful believer.

There are believers who have the gift of faith ( Ephesians 2:8 ), the faith that is the evidence of their salvation ( Hebrews 11:1 ), was authored and finished by Jesus Christ ( Hebrews 12:2 ) and was delivered to the saints ( Jude 1:3 )...and there are those who do not.

There is a big difference between someone who professes with the lips, and someone who actually has been born again and has received the indwelling Spirit.

Faithful believers are the obedient ones.

True believers are faithful and obedient.
That evidence is first, internal and visible to the spiritual realm, and secondly, external and visible to the physical realm.

False believers are not faithful and obedient.
They are not saved, although they are convinced that they are.

Generally, what convinces them that they are righteous before God is that they've followed what their pastors have told them regarding how to "get to Heaven" and what being a Christian "requires"...but they were never "called" ( Romans 8:28-30 ).

"Wheat" and "tares" ( Matthew 13 ).

 

[Dave G]

IMO, your Eph 1:13 refers to receiving the Holy Spirit INSIDE,
which is a sign to the spirit world ...
(1) that you have been positionally sanctified <------ I agree, but it's more than just positionally sanctified. It's the "sealing" of the Holy Spirit that accompanies being born again.
(2) that the Holy Spirit will be taking you through the process of sanctification <----- Spiritually, there is no process of sanctification internally ( it's a one-time event )... while externally, the Holy Spirit overcomes the power of the flesh ( Romans 8:12-14 ) over time.

My replies in green within the body of your quoted text.

I don't know exactly which baptism Paul was referring to in Eph. 4:5,
but Hebrews 6:2 talks about "baptisms".
I see at least 4 different baptisms ...

1) Baptism into the church, the body of Christ, which is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Not salvation, but rather, synonymous with being born again.
They are not the same thing, although many people confuse the two.

2) I agree.

3) I don't see this anywhere in Scripture.
To me, part of your # 1 includes your # 3.

They are not separate occurrences.
What you call, "the baptism of the Spirit", I call "being filled with the Spirit".

4) I agree.

All of the baptisms are glorious blessings, even the baptism with fire:
“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake” (Matthew 5:10).

Again, I agree.