Is anything really accomplished by this forum or not?

When the truth cannot be disproven, it is silenced.

The truth is, for some, salvation unto eternal life is not a truth for anyone of whom they have not heard their testimony. For some others within this group, their own eternal life is not assured to them except that they are instrumental in leading one of Christ's redeemed sheep to him.

For others still, there is no peace with God as long as they are bound in their grave clothes; they have heard His voice call them by name, they have come forth from the death in their flesh, their tomb, in which they certainly did (as did I) stink in their love for trespass and sin; yet in their walk, they see they are yet bound, hand and foot; and even at times the veil over their eyes; Oh why, Oh why can they not see and understand dear Lord, it is not until they are come fully into thy presence that they shall hear the blessed words proclaim, "Loose him and let him go" and that they cannot rest in the peace that surpasseth all understanding that they were not brought forth from a position of His likeness and that they have not yet attained an awakening in His likeness(cfJohn 11 & Ps. 17)

What is offensive about the truth? Is it that it is offensive to the law of sin and death that yet works in my flesh?

Did the Gospel not offend you in your flesh, yet quicken a yearning in your spirit to come into His presence? If I answer no to the first, then how am I to answer yes to the latter?
Bro. Dallas

[ August 03, 2005, 12:30 AM: Message edited by: Frogman ]

 

Then why the questions or concern about whether a Calvinist can or will witness?

Did you know that in colonial America a Baptist minister was arrested for the charge of 'shoving the gospel of Christ in the face of everyone he met'?

Did you know that three Baptist ministers were arrested in Virginia for preaching the Gospel of the Son of God, without a license? And that Alexander Hamilton heard of their arrest and rode from New York to defend them in court, and still because these men were preaching without a state license, all three were fined and flogged?

Did you know that Baptist congregations sent letters to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Congress expressing unwillingness to sign any document that did not guarantee liberty of conscious in all matters religious?

And did you know that the infamous wall of separation between church and state is not in the U.S. Constitution, but is interpreted into that document by the Supreme court, in 1948, and that phrase, actually written by Thomas Jefferson, was lifted from a private correspondence with a Baptist congregation in New England?

All of this is truth, is it offensive to anyone?

Bro. Dallas

 

A bit of a flyswatter mentality, eh? I can relate.

 

I sure have changed my opinion since coming here. I will admit that some of the discussion here got me to thinking about it, and then I started looking closer at the Bible and what it said instead of what my emotions were telling me. I think this forum is very valuable.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph_Botwinick,

I am new here and I find it is a valuable forum also...I have seen some of your posts and like to read them.

I find your posts valuable.

The forum is not the only thing of value here.

I like to remember there are real people sitting behind other screens reading much of what is posted.

Joseph_Botwinick, You are very valuable also!

Even if people do not KNOW or understand it.....you are very valuable!

Some people on earth may treat you and I as if we have no value......for we are as sheep fit for slaughter!

How valuable are you?

Well my brother.....Jesus Christ purchased you with His own blood!

What in all of creation is more valuable than that?

Just to think we were purchased by God Himself!

He did this while we were enemies!

Amazing grace...........that saved a wretch like me!

God bless you! Regards KJB

 

KJB, I think that "free-willers" like myself are referring to choice of salvation. At least for me I agree with your def. of free will witch would make it impossoiable for man to have free will.

The way I look at it is that man can think or believe any way he wants, rather He gets to act it out or not is up to God. You say that is not free will, ;perhaps but I am saying free will is willing whatever you want altho0ugh you may not get it. NO one is programming you or telling you what you must think or do.
Its like the little girl you tell to go sit in the corner and she stands. YOU tell her to SIT and she says "okay but in my mind I'm still standing." You didn't change her will or make her will yours.
No by your def I say man does not have free will, but then I do say he has free will to choose. That only being because God has done the work for man to be able to believe.

I use this forum and others to help with my ss lessons. It helps to hear both sides or all sides and then lay them out with scriptures given and prove them or try them by scriptures.

 

I don't think anything is accomplished, I don't see why the purpose should be to change the views of others, rather than streangthen your own views.

A name change would be a great idea.

 

Diane,

You are right that many times people go back and forth and many times we are never convinced of anything.

I am a stubborn person myself and I am quite sure many people are.

Some times people break through to me....sometimes I break through to others.

It is my desire to hold my mind captive to Scripture and not Bruce Almighty movies!

Scripture shows that all of creation has been subjected to a curse against its will.....by the One who subjected it. (God)

People were forced from the garden and the tree of life is gaurded.....people are hardly free.

The tree of life (that will give full restoration of our faculties) is not revealed until Rev.

Until then we are all with limitations and taint. Our minds, hearts, wills, souls, still show evidence of futility.

Scripture has proclaimed clearly that demons have taken over people. (Jesus cast some into swine).

Those people hardly had free-will!

Scripture shows that those in oppostion to God are held as captives to do Satans will.

Captivity is not free.

This does not mean that God has no control over Satan...for He most certainly does.

2 Tim 24->

The Lord's servants must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone. They must be able to teach effectively and be patient with difficult people. They should gently teach those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will believe the truth. Then they will come to their senses and escape from the Devil's trap. For they have been held captive by him to do whatever he wants.

This is a true statement....we have our job to do and it is God that compels us to do it.

Perhaps God will change hearts....."perhaps".

This does not mean He has to.....but us being mere people, we go on telling the truth no matter what.

And we hope for ohers....and we know that "His will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven".

God uses people to save people....and by our own efforts we save no one.

What we speak is Words that people hear on the outside.....as we do.....God is the One that changes the hearts....harder...or softer...as He wills!

Thats why it is written;

Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Most people do not like to hear that and they respond with things like....."Well if you made me like that why blame me? How could I resist? Its your fault not mine".

Paul already had a response for that;

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?

Who can resist HIS will? And who are we....mere humans to speak against God?

I hope you take some time to study Isaiah 10;

It is a perfect declaration of God moving the wills of kings, military might, and nations......all as He willed!

The king did not even know it was God that moved him along. The king was God's puppet so to speak.

"Destruction is certain for Assyria, the whip of my anger. Its military power is a club in my hand. Assyria will enslave my people, who are a godless nation. It will plunder them, trampling them like dirt beneath its feet. But the king of Assyria will not know that it is I who sent him. He will merely think he is attacking my people as part of his plan to conquer the world.

Yes it was certain....God is not some sort of crystal ball reader........He sees all things fro sure......but He also makes all things come about!

Hope you read more of Isaiah 10.

By the way, you are very valuable also!

God bless you! Regards KJB

 

I find the discussions on this forum useful, but sad. Grown people knowingly insulting others by asking questions they know are strawmen. The best question would have been; Is it possible for Calvinists and Arminians to have civilized discussions/debates? I have been a Calvinist long enough to know not all Calvinists agree with each other whole-heartedly but I do see them respecting each other.

I cannot believe my will before I was saved was free, but at the time I thought it was because of the number of times I made "decisions". The difference between the time I made these "decisions" and the time I was saved (on the couch waiting for the football game to start while my family was at church) was the difference between darkness and light. I know whom I believe.

Diane, I am sorry you cannot accept the fact I deserved no credit in my salvation. Did I make a decision that day? Oh, yeah! I decided I was gonna watch the Cowboys game. I didn't watch the game that day nor have I seen a whole one since.

Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How sweet it was when grace appeared
The hour I first believed.

 

Dale, if you were drowning and I threw you a line, would you claim that you deserved any credit for being saved? This is the common misperception from the calvinist toward the non calvinist, that we somehow take credit for any part of salvation. We don't.

 

Playing along with the tiresome drowning man analogy, we all know there are some who are thrown the line but refuse to take it, so those who did take it must have something inherit in them that caused them to take it, right? Were they smarter than the ones who didn't take it? What is the difference between he who takes it and he who refuses it?

 

How did I believe? You lost me at "did" as it denotes an active effort on my part. I could vaguely say when I started believing. It is rather difficult to explain. I just believed with all my heart and it was confusing for me because I had never tasted it before; faith. I not only believed, but knew with all my heart: Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Did not know what to make of it for a while because I had never been taught anything like it. I used to be overly-conscious over being seen toting a Bible, but it turned into my limb. I tried to explain to a young preacher, but he must have thought I was nuts while squirming in his chair. I know when I fell in love with my wife. Do you? maybe that can help a bit explaining what I mean. I did not have a choice at hand, I simply loved her and still do.

 

Webdog, I wasn't drowning. I was dead.

 

To answer your question, there is no difference. Your view of God would throw a line to someone with no arms and tell them to grab it!

 

So explain how someone "dead" could have faith and believe? Did God force you to believe? You take the phrase "dead in our sins" to mean man can do nothing. This is not true, as evidenced in hundreds of scriptures telling us to choose and believe. All men are dead in their sins, meaning all men deserve eternal separation. We are told to have faith and believe. If I walked up to a corpse and told him to believe and have faith he can get out of the casket, could he? What if he was someone who I specifically had chosen to believe?