AI is a tool of propaganda. There is a mechanism behind the tool.
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Is Artificial Intelligence (AI) the False Prophet
- Thread starter taisto
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CJP69
Active Member
So it paper.
Any communications device is a tool of propaganda, whether it is designed for that express purpose is another question.
CJP69
Active Member
Was this in answer to my question?
It would be helpful if you'd use the website as it is intended (i.e. use the quote feature, like everyone else).
Assuming that this was in response to my question, I can only say that I hope that this isn't how you do all of your theology. Making such connections is how cults are made. Not that you're a cultist! I'm just saying, that cultists use the same method of formulating their doctrine. Not exactly what I'd call a conservative way of doing things.
Since my post immediately followed yours, with no one else in between, why would you not realize I was replying to you alone?
Also, what do you find odd about reading a verse about an image that people made an image and that the image was empowered to be alive, and to speak and then someone like me thinking it's not human? Since it was "made", wouldn't it be a photo, drawing, statue, idol, or even more likely, a robotic creation? That just makes sense to me, and has since the 1970's, when I first started reading Scripture.
What about the whole earth seeing the two witnesses lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, and then rising from the dead, and the whole earth sees that, too? Doesn't that indicate satellite TV to you? It does to me.
I know you're not calling me a cultist, and I don't think I would be offended if you did, because I know I am very orthodox (that's a good word
), although I probably should say old-fashioned, or very conservative. I can't stand all this so-called "Word-Faith" stuff put out by people like Copeland, and I can't stand Osteen, nor Meyer, nor the New Apostolic Reformation. But I do believe The Revelation of Jesus Christ has much relevance for today, and I also think the antichrist would be a fool not to use every bit of technology available to him, so yes, I think the image will be a mechanical being of some kind, and powered by AI. Again, I'm conservative, probably to the extreme of most, but I would very much like to read what you think the image will be, or if you think it's past history, or whatever you think.Revelation 13:
"...saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
I do use the quote feature when there are already posts between mine and the one I am replying too. I did not see the necessity when a reply is immediately after a question. I was on the street when I replied, thus it was very short (just the facts, as the old Dragnet would say).
CJP69
Active Member
Just use the quote feature like everyone else and stop posting your entire post in bold. It's annoying both to read and respond too.
I have no problem with you liking the doctrine if that's what you want to believe then have at it but just don't think you're going to convince anyone by using that passage. That passage does not teach that any kind of AI or robot or anything else of the kind is going to be involved in the end times. That doesn't mean there won't be but it's taking a passage and rendering it meaningless to everyone in history that has ever read it prior to a few decades ago.
No, not at all, it does not indicate any such thing.
It's a figure of speech. Not even satellite television puts images in front of every single human being. The passage just means that lots and lots of people are going to see them lying dead. It's called hyperbole and its very common figure of speech used throughout the bible.
Nice! We definitely are going to have more in common than not. I'm not arguing that your ideas are heresy or even that they are definitely false. I have no doubt, for example, that the two dead witnesses will indeed be on world wide television - if they lie dead while television exists. My only point is that you can't be dogmatic about such ideas because, for all we know, these events aren't going to happen for another 10,000 years and there won't be anything anyone remembers ever being called a television.I know you're not calling me a cultist, and I don't think I would be offended if you did, because I know I am very orthodox (that's a good word
It definitely is not past history but anything we postulate in regards to the form these things will take in the future is conjecture and speculation. Literally every single generation since Christ ascended into Heaven has believed they were living in the end times and that have, of course, all been wrong. There's going to be a generation that happens to be correct and maybe we're it. It's just safer - more conservative - to be more up front than not about the speculative nature of such beliefs.
From post #29: "Just use the quote feature like everyone else and stop posting your entire post in bold. It's annoying both to read and respond too." CJP69
It's easier on my eyes and serves to differentiate between writing and the repost during the writing of the reply.
Is there a RULE about reposting when answering a simple question immediately after said post?
It's easier on my eyes and serves to differentiate between writing and the repost during the writing of the reply.
Is there a RULE about reposting when answering a simple question immediately after said post?
From post #29 (I did not want to quote the entire post):
CJP69 wrote: I have no problem with you liking the doctrine if that's what you want to believe then have at it but just don't think you're going to convince anyone by using that passage. That passage does not teach that any kind of AI or robot or anything else of the kind is going to be involved in the end times. That doesn't mean there won't be but it's taking a passage and rendering it meaningless to everyone in history that has ever read it prior to a few decades ago.
My reply: I wasn't intending to convince anyone. I believe John saw the end times, that is, the day we're living in. I can't help what others thought for the last 1900+ years. I am saying what I have understood about it for the last half century. Does that mean I'm wrong? Maybe. All I can do is the best I can with what I see in front of me in Scripture and try to see how it fits in the times I'm living in.
*****
My questions from #29: What about the whole earth seeing the two witnesses lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, and then rising from the dead, and the whole earth sees that, too? Doesn't that indicate satellite TV to you? It does to me.
CJP replied: No, not at all, it does not indicate any such thing. It's a figure of speech. Not even satellite television puts images in front of every single human being. The passage just means that lots and lots of people are going to see them lying dead. It's called hyperbole and its very common figure of speech used throughout the bible.
My answer now: I don't think it's a figure of speech. It's ok if you do. But you may be partly correct, in reference to satellite TV. And I do understand hyperbole, but I think it means billions will see them, so it's not so very much hyperbole as it is being pretty much accurate, because I just remembered that while everyone may not have a TV, basically everyone on earth now has a cellphone, even the poorest people apparently have them, somehow. Perhaps there are some isolated tribes on remote islands that won't see it, but they probably won't be subject to a mark, either.
Now those who read the passages in past history probably wondered how on earth this stuff could happen. Now we know. Surely people wondered how all known peoples, tribes, etc., would have to have a mark to buy and sell. Without modern technology, it could not happen, but with the digital dollar, EVERY transaction in EVERY modern society can be controlled by whoever runs the computers that allows your credit or debit card to make a purchase. Every transaction will be monitored and controlled. That's where we're headed quickly--I hope not in my lifetime. But antichrist and his system would be pure idiots not to use every piece of technology he and it can get their hands on. Never in history past has there been such a marvelous opportunity for worldwide control of the vast majority of the entire earth.
I don't know how to separate parts of a previous post so I can reply to just the points I wish to, as I go along. I will have to experiment with it to learn how.
CJP69 wrote: I have no problem with you liking the doctrine if that's what you want to believe then have at it but just don't think you're going to convince anyone by using that passage. That passage does not teach that any kind of AI or robot or anything else of the kind is going to be involved in the end times. That doesn't mean there won't be but it's taking a passage and rendering it meaningless to everyone in history that has ever read it prior to a few decades ago.
My reply: I wasn't intending to convince anyone. I believe John saw the end times, that is, the day we're living in. I can't help what others thought for the last 1900+ years. I am saying what I have understood about it for the last half century. Does that mean I'm wrong? Maybe. All I can do is the best I can with what I see in front of me in Scripture and try to see how it fits in the times I'm living in.
*****
My questions from #29: What about the whole earth seeing the two witnesses lying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, and then rising from the dead, and the whole earth sees that, too? Doesn't that indicate satellite TV to you? It does to me.
CJP replied: No, not at all, it does not indicate any such thing. It's a figure of speech. Not even satellite television puts images in front of every single human being. The passage just means that lots and lots of people are going to see them lying dead. It's called hyperbole and its very common figure of speech used throughout the bible.
My answer now: I don't think it's a figure of speech. It's ok if you do. But you may be partly correct, in reference to satellite TV. And I do understand hyperbole, but I think it means billions will see them, so it's not so very much hyperbole as it is being pretty much accurate, because I just remembered that while everyone may not have a TV, basically everyone on earth now has a cellphone, even the poorest people apparently have them, somehow. Perhaps there are some isolated tribes on remote islands that won't see it, but they probably won't be subject to a mark, either.
Now those who read the passages in past history probably wondered how on earth this stuff could happen. Now we know. Surely people wondered how all known peoples, tribes, etc., would have to have a mark to buy and sell. Without modern technology, it could not happen, but with the digital dollar, EVERY transaction in EVERY modern society can be controlled by whoever runs the computers that allows your credit or debit card to make a purchase. Every transaction will be monitored and controlled. That's where we're headed quickly--I hope not in my lifetime. But antichrist and his system would be pure idiots not to use every piece of technology he and it can get their hands on. Never in history past has there been such a marvelous opportunity for worldwide control of the vast majority of the entire earth.
I don't know how to separate parts of a previous post so I can reply to just the points I wish to, as I go along. I will have to experiment with it to learn how.
I also agree.
Consider the following which I consider kinda sorta related:
For I reckon that the sufferings of the present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory about to be revealed in us; for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, that also the creation itself shall be set free from the servitude of the corruption to the liberty of the glory of the children of God; Rom 8:18-21
When is the revelation of the sons of God? Is it not the following?
And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again. Luke 20:34-36
Is that also when hope comes to fruition?
Romans 8:23-25 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body; for in hope we were saved, and hope beheld is not hope; for what any one doth behold, why also doth he hope for it? and if what we do not behold we hope for, through continuance we expect it.
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 13.
I believe John saw the future and described the best he knew how. I understand his descriptions the best I know how.
This appears to be an AI-powered robot. It could be a hologram. I suppose it could be an image on a tv screen or computer monitor. It could be something as yer not invented.
There’s the conundrum. We just don’t know!
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Revelation 13.
I believe John saw the future and described the best he knew how. I understand his descriptions the best I know how.
This appears to be an AI-powered robot. It could be a hologram. I suppose it could be an image on a tv screen or computer monitor. It could be something as yer not invented.
There’s the conundrum. We just don’t know!
timtofly
Well-Known Member
In Daniel 2 was that an image? Or was that just symbolism, and did not literally happen?
If John called it an image, then those in the first or second centuries would assume it was similar to the image Nebuchadnezzer built that was human in form. John told us it was in the form of humanity as the "sea", referenced at the beginning of the chapter, symbolizes humanity.
Trying to give options like a hologram or TV screen is not the same as an image that is a 3d representation of a human.
The term given to Satan "dragon" does not mean John was referring to Greek mythology. Dragon is one word in English that has withstood mythology and retained an original meaning, simply serpent. Unfortunately most just seem to envision a mythical creature instead of what is behind the symbolism. Satan was referred to as the serpent by Moses way before the Greeks were even a group of people.
John describes this serpent to us, to avoid any connection to a mythical creature. If this animal did exist at one point on earth, it lost the mythical part of having appendages:
"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"
So a serpent once part of the cattle taxonomy ended up in the reptile taxonomy. Now for some reason Christians have attached the mythical view and seemingly bypassed the description John gave which was not reptile, but cattle.
"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
So Satan as described by John cannot be in the form of a dragon or drakon/serpent. That is just symbolism like Moses describing Satan in the Garden of Eden.
My point is that Satan is described in Revelation 13, but most ascribe that definition to a human. Then in doing so miss the description of this alleged human, who is not even human at all. In Revelation 13 we are introduced to the FP, Satan, and the beast in that order.
John is pointing to this image that we can associate with an artificial intelligence, it would seem this is Satan's way of creating his own Adam to take the place of the Second Adam, Jesus Christ. No one would make sense of this until the end. Daniel 12:8-9
"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."
Seems only those at the end would be able to put all the pieces together.
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