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Is asking Jesus into our "hearts" scriptural?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Naomi, Jan 14, 2002.

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  1. Naomi

    Naomi New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonC:
    I don't think there are any words that can convince anyone to salvation. It's only through God.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amen! Amen! Amen!
    Thanks my brother, or sister...LOL
    You summed it up in a nutshell [​IMG]
    Naomi

    [ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Naomi ]
     
    #21 Naomi, Jan 20, 2002
  2. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonC:


    It it a good phrase? I don't know. Obviously there are some here that don't understand what it means. And I guess it would be a real problem dealing with non-Christians too.

    But you run into the same problem with people using John 3:16 as a stand-alone plan of salvation. I don't think there are any words that can convince anyone to salvation. It's only through God.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hey Jon And Naomi,
    There is a problem w/ this kind of thinking.
    Approval of this type of extra-biblical mentality opens scripture up for grabs. If we cannot hold fast to sola scriptura and diversion from the canon becomes an accepted method for whatever reasons, we, the body of Christ are in for trouble (see my previous quote by M. Luther).
    We can agree that salvation *is of God. The words of scripture are sufficient (alone) to save men without adding a jot or tittle to them. The concept of receiving (accepting), is clearly stated within the pages of the gospel message, praying or the *acceptance of asking Jesus to come into ones heart is not. These are unscriptural fundamentals and rudemements that have caused a "fog" sort of speak within the historical orthodoxy of the Christian church. Altar calls, praying to receive and asking Christ into ones heart are reasonlable examples of this modern day phenomenom.They (IMO) are an error and should be avoided.

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey

    [ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Scott Bushey ]
     
    #22 Scott_Bushey, Jan 20, 2002
  3. Optional

    Optional New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godluv777:
    Optional,
    Thank you for your post...........Exegeted properly, this passage in Revelation is Christ speaking to the Church exhorting a level of repentance. This in no way is intended for unbelievers or a call to the unregenerate. For instance: v22 states, "what the spirit says to the churches.......". v17 says that God *chastens and rebukes those He loves*. See Heb ch 11:5-11 on the subject of Gods chastening.

    Have a great Lords day!
    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey
    Fecisti nos ad te et inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in
    te...
    -- Augustine, Confessions 1:1    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Rev 3:20 [red] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.[/red]

    Although his message was to the churches, he is speaking individually. Knocking is used as a sign of importunity (Matt. 7:7, 8; Luke
    13:25), and of the coming of Christ (Luke 12:36).
     
    #23 Optional, Jan 20, 2002
  4. Naomi

    Naomi New Member

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    Scott Bushey,
    Agreed! I never said it was scripturalto ask Jesus into ones heart.

    Here is an example of what I mean:
    Many Christians are taught today that Baptism is basically a 'symbolic'
    act. In my youth I was raised mainly in Baptist churches, and they always
    taught that baptism is an "outward SYMBOL of an inner change". Thus
    baptism is stripped of much of it's significance and power in Christian
    thinking. For a "symbol" is never as important as the real thing, is it?
    I have studied baptism extensively in the New Testament. It is NEVER
    spoken of as a mere 'SYMBOL'. Rather, it is spoken of as being a
    'circumcision of the heart', a "cutting off", a "burial" into the DEATH
    of Christ. And it is also spoken of as being "for the forgiveness of sins"
    and to "wash one's sins away". I am convinced that in the spirit realm
    (from God's point of view), baptism is seen as a LITERAL "burial into
    death" (-see Romans 6) which has a profound effect on our hearts and
    lives. But still we preach, "Ask Jesus into your heart", and deny many
    people one of the most vital keys to living a Christian life. I am also
    convinced that baptism MUST be by 'FULL IMMERSION'. Sprinkling little
    infants is not enough. This must be baptism for BELIEVERS. And the
    original Greek word 'baptizo' actually means "TO DIP OR IMMERSE". So
    people must be 'buried' under the water in baptism, not just sprinkled.
    (I'm sure most of you already agree with this).
    This is Bible!
    Naomi [​IMG]
     
    #24 Naomi, Jan 20, 2002
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonC:
    I see salvation as a pardon. Jesus came to save the world, not just Christians. It's a blanket pardon. But a pardon must be accepted to be valid. Christians are former sinners who have accepted God's Gift of Salvation. (If you were on death row, and the President offered you a pardon, you don't have to take it.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Don't mean to quibble, but a person's "accepting" or "rejecting" a pardon has nothing to do with the issue. If (in your illustration) the Governor orders a pardon, the crime is wiped off the books and you are free - WHETHER YOU WANT IT OR ACCEPT IT OR NOT. The government can no longer hold you prisoner or execute you, because you have been declared "Not Guilty".

    Now the illustration here truly breaks down. Because we ARE guilty. Better the picture of another man taking your place and paying the price of your guilt. THAT is a clearer picture of redemption.

    A Pardon is not YOUR doing and has nothing for you to accept/reject. It is 100% God's doing for His own. He stamped "Paid in Full" on my account (tetelestai in Greek, same word that is translated "It is Finished" by Jesus on the cross).

    Now THAT will preach better than "open up your heart" or "accept/reject a pardon".
     
    #25 Dr. Bob, Jan 20, 2002
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Actually, no, a pardon has been rejected in the past. The Supreme Court decision, Burdick v. United States allowed the "putative recipient of a pardon" to reject the pardon. They didn't allow it in Biddle v. Petcovich, though.

    Anyway, guess it wasn't a good illus. But it works for me, and as I'm not trying to convert anyone here, or get you to invite anyone into your heart, that's good enough.

    I really think we agree, except maybe on the baptism thing, but that's another subject. I think we're missing each other on words.

    But I may be wrong. About agreeing, that is.

    :D

    Is it unscriptual to believe in salvation as a gift from God, and to pray for God's guidence in my life?

    If you believe it is unscriptual, we disagree. If not, we agree, just not on wording.

    [ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: JonC ]
     
    #26 JonC, Jan 20, 2002
  7. Scott_Bushey

    Scott_Bushey <img src=/scott.jpg>

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Optional:


    Rev 3:20 [red] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.[/red]

    Although his message was to the churches, he is speaking individually. Knocking is used as a sign of importunity (Matt. 7:7, 8; Luke
    13:25), and of the coming of Christ (Luke 12:36).    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Optional,
    Your understanding of God calling *individuals* is correct. However, these individuals being called are *part* of the body of believers that make up the Laodicean church. Hence, the typical application used by many present day assemblies under the call of the gospel is erred.

    You present Matt 7:7 as proof text.
    Matt 7:7 is the teaching (primarily)of Jesus to His disciples. This is not to imply all the disciples of Christ were believers but the claiming of these promises can only be claimed by those that are true believers and disciples.
    In Matt 5:13 they are called *salt* of the Earth, V14 light of the world. Those that are considered salt and light are believers.
    In Matt 7:11 the subjects are called sons in that they have a father in Heaven who will give them good things. These are believers also. Not everyone is able to call God, *Father*.
    The application of Luke 13:25 has to do with the judgement and God casting away those whom He does not know.

    Your application of Luke 12:36 is probably the most applicable. Faithful servants vs unfaithful. The master(God) of the house, knocking and the believing servants answering accordingly.

    Again I add, Revelation 3:20 is not a call to the unregenerate, but to the church of God to repent from their lukewarmness.

    In HIM,
    Scott Bushey
     
    #27 Scott_Bushey, Jan 20, 2002
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