Is Baptism the New Circumcision?

[Moriah]

We only know what you believe by what you post since you don't identify yourself. And much of it is contrary to Biblical teaching.

When I post, that is identifying me.

Just point out the doctrines that I have misrepresented.

"I don't need teachers or pastors."

I never said that.

"I don't need to attend a local church."

I have not found a church that does not teach some form of false doctrine. It is not a sin not to join a church; it is only your false teachings that make you feel that you must.

The denial of either the depravity of man or the sin nature of man.

Where have I said humans do not have a sin nature? Humans have a sin nature.

The assertion that man must be saved by good works.

We must obey Jesus. I do not consider it a good work not to steal. I do not consider it a good work not to commit adultery. I do not consider it a good work not to murder.

The assertion that man must remain saved by good works.

The Bible warns us not to fall away.

The assertion that repentance is sorrow for sin.

To repent is to be sorry for sins. If you repent and are not sorry for your sins, then it is a filthy rag confession to God. Every language knows repent means to be sorry for sins and to turn from them.

The assertion that baptism is necessary for salvation.

You sure just say anything you want about people, with no care to the accuracy.

A person can be saved before water baptism.

Water baptism and the understanding of it does help one in their salvation. It also is obeying Jesus.

The denial of the Great Commission.
The assertion that the Great Commission was fulfilled in the time of the apostles and therefore not applicable to us today.

The Great Commission was completed by the Apostles, and, not everyone is called to be a traveling teacher.

The assertion that one can receive the Holy Spirit after the time of salvation, and not at the time of salvation.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

I have said a person could receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism, during water baptism, and after water baptism. Jesus is the one who baptizes, and Jesus gives those he accepts the Holy Spirit, see Acts 15:8.

You are being silly if not down right absurd. This is a baptist board. I believe in baptist doctrine and that baptist doctrine is Biblically correct and sound. I also can back it up with Scripture. Now you come along, and we can't even verify if you are a Mormon because you won't identify yourself. We simply know that you are not a Baptist. Of course I don't want to learn from your heresies. What an absurd idea that is!! Why would I want to do that! You come up with the craziest ideas! You are a guest on a Baptist board. You are not Baptist. Don't expect Baptists to believe your heresies.

You falsely accused me of not being able to be taught anything, and you think it is absurd for me to point out that you are the one who is not teachable. lol

That is what all the Mormons say. So how are you any different? You haven't told us yet. You refuse to identify yourself.

Mormons do not believe in only the Holy Bible.

You learned what you believe from someone. Who is it? Who brainwashed you into believing the false teaching that you now have accepted?

You just described yourself when you falsely accuse me.

 

[DHK]

When I post, that is identifying me.

No it isn't. You post some things that are in line with the Church of Christ, Methodist, Brethren, United Pentecostal, and others depending on what we are talking about. Failure to identify yourself means that you are possibly aligning yourself with cults.

I never said that.

You are a hypocrite. You just told me that you don't need teachers and pastors. And right in the next line below, this is what you say:

I have not found a church that does not teach some form of false doctrine. It is not a sin not to join a church; it is only your false teachings that make you feel that you must.

You teach against the local church; you are not a member of a local church--the very place where you would find teachers and pastors. If you believed in pastors and teachers you would be part of a local church. You are being hypocritical.

I have not found a church that does not teach some form of false doctrine. It is not a sin not to join a church; it is only your false teachings that make you feel that you must.

Are you blind to NT teaching, or you just don't study the Bible. I gave you evidence before, but like I said, you are not teachable. Here it is again:

1. Paul went on three missionaries and established over 100 local church. Isn't that enough evidence all by itself? God's ordained institution is the local church. Why do you think Paul organized saved and baptized believers into local churches? It was God's revealed will.

2. Paul wrote 13 epistles: all of them were either to local churches to to pastors of local churches. Was this just a coincidence? The local church is God's ordained institution for today.

3. Our Lord Jesus Christ wrote seven letters to pastors of local churches recorded in Revelation 2 and 3. It stresses the importance of the local church.

4. On the day of Pentecost 3,000 were saved and added to the church at Jerusalem, a local church.

5. Daily people were added to the church at Jerusalem, a local church.

6. In Acts 13:1-4, Paul and Barnabas were sent on their first missionary; commissioned to go from the local church at Antioch.

7. The church at Corinth was advised to lay apart a certain percentage of their money on the first day of the week, so that when Paul came he could collect it and give it to the poor saints at Jerusalem. He was gathering up a collection, and doing so from all the "local churches" in the area.

8. What baptized believers can you point to that did not become members of local churches?

9. We have the command in Scripture (Heb.10:24,25, and by example).

Where have I said humans do not have a sin nature? Humans have a sin nature.

This has to do with the depravity of man which you have denounced over and over again. Even in every day debate you deny it. For example, it is because of the sin nature of man that the unsaved man cannot understand the Scriptures, cannot do good, etc. You deny the sin nature of man in the sense you cannot agree with these simple facts.

We must obey Jesus. I do not consider it a good work not to steal. I do not consider it a good work not to commit adultery. I do not consider it a good work not to murder.

This is a denial of the Ten Commandments as works.
You also believe you must believe and have works to be saved don't you?

The Bible warns us not to fall away.

So you take a verse out of context to defend your false doctrine.
The Bible also says: My sheep...shall never perish; I give unto them eternal life.

To repent is to be sorry for sins. If you repent and are not sorry for your sins, then it is a filthy rag confession to God. Every language knows repent means to be sorry for sins and to turn from them.

Again, it is wrong definition in every language, as far as the Bible is concerned. Secular dictionaries do not give us Biblical definitions of words.

You sure just say anything you want about people, with no care to the accuracy.

I have asked you straight out if baptism is necessary for salvation. And you said it was. So tell me are you wrong now, or then?

A person can be saved before water baptism.

So he can be saved before obedience. That is not even what you say on your website. Since baptism is a pledge of obedience you say, you must pledge to be obedient in baptism making it a requirement for salvation.

From you website:
Water baptism is a promise of a good conscience to God. See 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

The way that you have worded it, it sounds like a requirement. And you always speak of obedience before salvation.

Water baptism and the understanding of it does help one in their salvation. It also is obeying Jesus.

You also require a person to be obedient before he can be saved, correct?

The Great Commission was completed by the Apostles, and, not everyone is called to be a traveling teacher.

This view is not Biblical. The Great Commission was never completed, and no one is excluded from this great command.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit."

I have said a person could receive the Holy Spirit before water baptism, during water baptism, and after water baptism. Jesus is the one who baptizes, and Jesus gives those he accepts the Holy Spirit, see Acts 15:8.

Your quotation of these verses doesn't make your belief any less a heresy.
The Holy Spirit comes and indwells the believer the moment he gets saved. You take these Scriptures out of context. They demonstrate how confused you are on doctrine. It also demonstrates your need for a good local church and your need to be under the authority of teachers and pastors.

You falsely accused me of not being able to be taught anything, and you think it is absurd for me to point out that you are the one who is not teachable. lol

Your life demonstrates that on this board.

Mormons do not believe in only the Holy Bible.

Mormons don't believe in sola scriptura.
They have many sources of authority, not just the Bible. But they still use the Bible as one of their sources of authority, so you cannot say that they don't believe the Bible.

You just described yourself when you falsely accuse me.

Don't falsely accuse without any basis in fact. Here is what I said:

You learned what you believe from someone. Who is it? Who brainwashed you into believing the false teaching that you now have accepted?

I have been taught not only on my own in order to teach others, but also in my church by my pastor, and in college, and in seminary. Yes, I have had many teachers. But like the Bereans, I have checked their teachings with the Word of God. I am not brainwashed, as you are with false teachings. Someone gave you false teachings. But perhaps you are too ashamed to say.

 

[Moriah]

No it isn't. You post some things that are in line with the Church of Christ, Methodist, Brethren, United Pentecostal, and others depending on what we are talking about. Failure to identify yourself means that you are possibly aligning yourself with cults.

According to your logic, any denomination that happens to believe something that you believe in makes you false. Is that what you are saying?

You are a hypocrite. You just told me that you don't need teachers and pastors. And right in the next line below, this is what you say:

I have not found a church that does not teach some form of false doctrine. It is not a sin not to join a church; it is only your false teachings that make you feel that you must.

You teach against the local church; you are not a member of a local church--the very place where you would find teachers and pastors. If you believed in pastors and teachers you would be part of a local church. You are being hypocritical.

How can you not figure it out? A false religion might say something correct, that does not mean I think everything they say is correct.

Are you blind to NT teaching, or you just don't study the Bible. I gave you evidence before, but like I said, you are not teachable. Here it is again:

1. Paul went on three missionaries and established over 100 local church. Isn't that enough evidence all by itself? God's ordained institution is the local church. Why do you think Paul organized saved and baptized believers into local churches? It was God's revealed will.

2. Paul wrote 13 epistles: all of them were either to local churches to to pastors of local churches. Was this just a coincidence? The local church is God's ordained institution for today.

3. Our Lord Jesus Christ wrote seven letters to pastors of local churches recorded in Revelation 2 and 3. It stresses the importance of the local church.

4. On the day of Pentecost 3,000 were saved and added to the church at Jerusalem, a local church.

5. Daily people were added to the church at Jerusalem, a local church.

6. In Acts 13:1-4, Paul and Barnabas were sent on their first missionary; commissioned to go from the local church at Antioch.

7. The church at Corinth was advised to lay apart a certain percentage of their money on the first day of the week, so that when Paul came he could collect it and give it to the poor saints at Jerusalem. He was gathering up a collection, and doing so from all the "local churches" in the area.

8. What baptized believers can you point to that did not become members of local churches?

9. We have the command in Scripture (Heb.10:24,25, and by example).

During the laying of the foundation, there were churches, and the Apostles were alive to help make sure the churches kept teaching the truth. That is not how it is nowadays.

This has to do with the depravity of man which you have denounced over and over again. Even in every day debate you deny it.

Men have a sin nature. I have not ever said differently. That is you trying to get away with saying anything, but God knows.

For example, it is because of the sin nature of man that the unsaved man cannot understand the Scriptures, cannot do good, etc. You deny the sin nature of man in the sense you cannot agree with these simple facts.

A person does NOT have to understand all the scriptures before they can get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. That is nonsense false teachings to say we cannot do anything God says. Even you teach we can believe in Jesus. If we cannot believe in anything, as you say, then how can anyone accept Jesus if they do not know what they are accepting!

This is a denial of the Ten Commandments as works.
You also believe you must believe and have works to be saved don't you?

The only part of the Ten Commandments that are works, is the observance of the Sabbath day rest.

It is not a work to not murder, it is not a work to stay faithful to your wife!

So you take a verse out of context to defend your false doctrine.
The Bible also says: My sheep...shall never perish; I give unto them eternal life.

If the person did not fall away, then they would not perish!

Again, it is wrong definition in every language, as far as the Bible is concerned. Secular dictionaries do not give us Biblical definitions of words.

That is ridiculous nonsense what you say.

To repent is to be sorry for sins. If you repent and are not sorry for your sins, then it is a filthy rag confession to God. Every language knows repent means to be sorry for sins and to turn from them.

I have asked you straight out if baptism is necessary for salvation. And you said it was. So tell me are you wrong now, or then?

I say what I always say.

A person can receive the Holy Spirit before, during, or after water baptism.

Water baptism should be done. If a person understands what it is, then it can help them in their salvation.

So he can be saved before obedience.

Just believing and confessing is obedience. Why would a person be water baptized if they do not believe?

That is not even what you say on your website. Since baptism is a pledge of obedience you say, you must pledge to be obedient in baptism making it a requirement for salvation.

You do not understand. The pledge at water baptism is something that should have already been done in your mind and heart. Water baptism is a symbol of what Jesus does, and what you do.

You also require a person to be obedient before he can be saved, correct?

Believing and confessing is obeying.

Read about those who believe but did not confess Jesus as their Lord. Jesus says those who acknowledge him before men, that he would acknowledge them before God.

The scriptures tell us to repent. You have a hard time with that I know.

This view is not Biblical. The Great Commission was never completed, and no one is excluded from this great command.

Not everyone is called to be a traveling teacher. No matter what you denomination convinced you to do.

The Apostles completed the command that Jesus gave to them.

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

If you want everyone to believe that every single saved Ephesian, Galatian, Philippian, Roman, Corinthian, Thessalonian, Colossian, and saved Hebrew traveled to preach the gospel, then you have no understanding.

Your quotation of these verses doesn't make your belief any less a heresy.
The Holy Spirit comes and indwells the believer the moment he gets saved.

Just listen to how you talk. Of course, the Holy Spirit come and indwells the believer when they are saved.

LOL

You take these Scriptures out of context. They demonstrate how confused you are on doctrine. It also demonstrates your need for a good local church and your need to be under the authority of teachers and pastors.

You have been in a church, and yet read the things you say!

Don't falsely accuse without any basis in fact. Here is what I said:

You learned what you believe from someone. Who is it? Who brainwashed you into believing the false teaching that you now have accepted?

I have been taught not only on my own in order to teach others, but also in my church by my pastor, and in college, and in seminary. Yes, I have had many teachers. But like the Bereans, I have checked their teachings with the Word of God. I am not brainwashed, as you are with false teachings. Someone gave you false teachings. But perhaps you are too ashamed to say.

You repeat exactly what you were taught by your teachers to say.

 

[DHK]

According to your logic, any denomination that happens to believe something that you believe in makes you false. Is that what you are saying?

Let me give you an example. I know of a young man in another church Baptist church. He slowly came to the conclusion that Calvinism was the right position, and his church's non-Cal was not. He did the right thing by resigning from the church, and giving the entire congregation the reason why. He ended up going to a Reformed Baptist Church. But he saw inconsistencies there. He continued to study the Calvinist position. He has taken Calvinism to its ultimate and logical end, and is now a member of a Presbyterian church.
You find a church and become a member of a church that is closest to the beliefs that you have. I believe that young man went down the wrong road, but at least he is still in a local church in fellowship with other believers of life faith and order as he is, as the Lord commands him.

What does this verse mean?
2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
--If you are a believer, note, that no man lives unto himself. As another man once said: "No man is an island." We are commanded to be in fellowship with other believers, being taught, learning doctrine, and corporately worshiping with others. We all need it. The early church needed it.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
--There is the example of the NT churches. They continued in these things DAILY. We once, twice, or three times a week; sometimes more, depending on the devotedness of the believer.

Concerning my church, If I didn't believe the doctrines were true I wouldn't be a member. I would go and find a church that I was in agreement with, just like that young man ended up in a Presbyterian Church. But at least go to a local church. Even the Catholics will do that.

How can you not figure it out? A false religion might say something correct, that does not mean I think everything they say is correct.

No two people agree on exactly everything. I don't agree with Biblicist on everything, but I think we would both be at home in the same church. One of the great distinctives of the Baptists is soul liberty which is the freedom to believe what one believes true. There is a set of fundamentals that we adhere to, but there are also a set of Baptist distinctives that we adhere to.

During the laying of the foundation, there were churches, and the Apostles were alive to help make sure the churches kept teaching the truth. That is not how it is nowadays.

That is false. That is how it is in many places. We build our churches on the tenets of the word of God and the teachings of the Apostles. Especially in Indpendent Baptist Churches, which are not denominational, and have no denominational authority, they go right to the Bible and independently try to imitate the NT churches, as they were supposed to be.

Men have a sin nature. I have not ever said differently. That is you trying to get away with saying anything, but God knows.

In essence you deny a sin nature. Why does a thief steal? Because he has a sin nature. Why doesn't the thief try to find the police station afterward (the right thing to do)? He has a sin nature which encourages him to do the wrong thing? When he is caught what is the first thing he does? He begins to lie and accuse others for his crime. Why? He has a sin nature--a depraved nature.

A person does NOT have to understand all the scriptures before they can get Jesus’ teachings and obey them. That is nonsense false teachings to say we cannot do anything God says. Even you teach we can believe in Jesus. If we cannot believe in anything, as you say, then how can anyone accept Jesus if they do not know what they are accepting!

Faith is not a work. The Ethiopian Eunuch had to have someone help him understand the Scriptures. People don't get saved all by themselves. God uses others, that is other believers, to help the unsaved understand the word that they may get saved. They cannot understand on their own. 1Cor.2:14 tells us they cannot understand the things of God.

The only part of the Ten Commandments that are works, is the observance of the Sabbath day rest.

It is not a work to not murder, it is not a work to stay faithful to your wife!

Is that what you teach children. Killing is not a work to be kept, therefore go and kill.

If the person did not fall away, then they would not perish!

That is false. You make Jesus a liar. Jesus promised that his sheep will not perish; they already have eternal life, and therefore they cannot fall away! Why do you make him a liar?

That is ridiculous nonsense what you say.

To repent is to be sorry for sins. If you repent and are not sorry for your sins, then it is a filthy rag confession to God. Every language knows repent means to be sorry for sins and to turn from them. [/quote]
You are only showing your ignorance of "repentance". Repentance is not "feeling sorry for your sin." That is a wrong definition. Thus, every time you speak of repentance you are using a wrong definition and a totally wrong theology because your definitions are wrong.
Repentance is a "turning away." It is when one turns from their sinful way of life and turns to God in submission. Once he was going down a road of rebellion. He repented--turned the opposite direction. Now he is going down the road of submission to God. That is what faith in Christ does, and that is what Biblical repentance ends up in. They both work together.

I say what I always say.

And much of it is false.

A person can receive the Holy Spirit before, during, or after water baptism.

That is false.

Water baptism should be done. If a person understands what it is, then it can help them in their salvation.

That is false.

Just believing and confessing is obedience. Why would a person be water baptized if they do not believe?

Many unsaved people do religious things. They are sincere in their religion, sincere, but sincerely wrong.

You do not understand. The pledge at water baptism is something that should have already been done in your mind and heart. Water baptism is a symbol of what Jesus does, and what you do.

You do not understand baptism. You are confused about many things.

Believing and confessing is obeying.

Belief or faith is not obeying as in a work. Faith is not a work.
Confessing is simply an outworking of that faith, an expression of that faith.

Read about those who believe but did not confess Jesus as their Lord. Jesus says those who acknowledge him before men, that he would acknowledge them before God.

Like the thief on the cross?
Like the Ethiopian Eunuch, all alone in the desert where there were no men to confess before??

The scriptures tell us to repent. You have a hard time with that I know.

Never does the Scripture command an unsaved person to be sorry for their sins! Never!

Not everyone is called to be a traveling teacher. No matter what you denomination convinced you to do.

The command to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature," is given to every believer with no exceptions. That includes you. You will find that out at the Judgement.

The Apostles completed the command that Jesus gave to them.

India has always been a big nation. Thomas was the apostle sent to India. Do you think that Thomas reached every individual in India? Really?

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

In North America as well??

If you want everyone to believe that every single saved Ephesian, Galatian, Philippian, Roman, Corinthian, Thessalonian, Colossian, and saved Hebrew traveled to preach the gospel, then you have no understanding.

I didn't say what they did. That is between them and God. I said the command is given to all.

Just listen to how you talk. Of course, the Holy Spirit come and indwells the believer when they are saved.

Look above at the "false statements" you made. You just contradicted yourself.

You have been in a church, and yet read the things you say!

I will repeat what I said since your statement is so confusing:

You take these Scriptures out of context. They demonstrate how confused you are on doctrine. It also demonstrates your need for a good local church and your need to be under the authority of teachers and pastors.

I stand by what I say.

You repeat exactly what you were taught by your teachers to say.

I stand by what I have studied from the Scriptures, from the conclusions that I personally have come to, from how the Holy Spirit has guided me as I have studied. That is how I have arrived at my conclusions. That is how I MUST arrive at my conclusions, before I go out to teach and to preach to others.

 

[Moriah]

You find a church and become a member of a church that is closest to the beliefs that you have.

That does not sit well with me. Maybe for you, but not for me.

I believe that young man went down the wrong road, but at least he is still in a local church in fellowship with other believers of life faith and order as he is, as the Lord commands him.

He does not even know the Lord if he is practicing falseness. As for the Lord commanding that we join a local church, that is your adding to God’s word.

What does this verse mean?
2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
--If you are a believer, note, that no man lives unto himself. As another man once said: "No man is an island."

You threw in manmade wisdom. The scripture 2 Corinthians 5:15 is about not living to yourself, but living for Jesus.

We are commanded to be in fellowship with other believers, being taught, learning doctrine, and corporately worshiping with others. We all need it. The early church needed it.

Again, it is not a command to join a local church. The New Testament people needed to go to church to learn what was revealed to the Apostles. We have the Bible now.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
--There is the example of the NT churches. They continued in these things DAILY. We once, twice, or three times a week; sometimes more, depending on the devotedness of the believer.

Concerning my church, If I didn't believe the doctrines were true I wouldn't be a member. I would go and find a church that I was in agreement with, just like that young man ended up in a Presbyterian Church. But at least go to a local church. Even the Catholics will do that.

Your whole argument is flawed. What is so acceptable to you that a person should go and get further from the Truth by going to church and learning their false ways?

That is false. That is how it is in many places. We build our churches on the tenets of the word of God and the teachings of the Apostles. Especially in Indpendent Baptist Churches, which are not denominational, and have no denominational authority, they go right to the Bible and independently try to imitate the NT churches, as they were supposed to be.

No, it is not false what I said. As for your church not being denominational, it is, even non-denominational churches are denominations.

In essence you deny a sin nature.

No, I do not deny a sin nature. That is you continuing to make up things about what I say.

Faith is not a work.

Jesus says faith is a work. Jesus’ work is light and easy.

The Ethiopian Eunuch had to have someone help him understand the Scriptures. People don't get saved all by themselves.

The Ethiopian was reading about a prophecy about Jesus. Philip told him the New Testament.

God uses others, that is other believers, to help the unsaved understand the word that they may get saved. They cannot understand on their own. 1Cor.2:14 tells us they cannot understand the things of God.

Of course, God uses others. If I did not think someone can be helped and learn about the truth, then I would not bother to write.

Is that what you teach children. Killing is not a work to be kept, therefore go and kill.

You prove you have no understanding. It is a sin to commit murder. It is not a work not to commit murder. How do you think it is a work not to murder?

That is false. You make Jesus a liar. Jesus promised that his sheep will not perish; they already have eternal life, and therefore they cannot fall away! Why do you make him a liar?

If they would not have fallen away, then they would be his sheep.

You are only showing your ignorance of "repentance". Repentance is not "feeling sorry for your sin." That is a wrong definition. Thus, every time you speak of repentance you are using a wrong definition and a totally wrong theology because your definitions are wrong.
Repentance is a "turning away." It is when one turns from their sinful way of life and turns to God in submission. Once he was going down a road of rebellion. He repented--turned the opposite direction. Now he is going down the road of submission to God. That is what faith in Christ does, and that is what Biblical repentance ends up in. They both work together.

No, repent means to be sorry for sins and turn from them. It is easy to prove you wrong. Who gives up sins they are not sorry for? lol

Like the thief on the cross?
Like the Ethiopian Eunuch, all alone in the desert where there were no men to confess before??

The thief on the cross acknowledged Jesus before men. The Ethiopian acknowledged Jesus before Philip.

Never does the Scripture command an unsaved person to be sorry for their sins! Never!

That is not true.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Did you read Romans 10:10? With your mouth that you confess and are saved.

The command to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature," is given to every believer with no exceptions. That includes you. You will find that out at the Judgement.

I know the truth now. You say anything your religion tells you to say.

India has always been a big nation. Thomas was the apostle sent to India. Do you think that Thomas reached every individual in India? Really?

I gave you scripture. You just speak against the scriptures.

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

In North America as well??

Again, I quote scripture and you prove you just do not accept God’s word that you argue against His word.

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

I didn't say what they did. That is between them and God. I said the command is given to all.

If you want everyone to believe that every single saved Ephesian, Galatian, Philippian, Roman, Corinthian, Thessalonian, Colossian, and saved Hebrew traveled to preach the gospel, then you have no understanding. lol

I stand by what I have studied from the Scriptures, from the conclusions that I personally have come to, from how the Holy Spirit has guided me as I have studied. That is how I have arrived at my conclusions. That is how I MUST arrive at my conclusions, before I go out to teach and to preach to others.

You teach that we do not understand anything of God, but that we should hear about Jesus and believe. You are teaching that confusion.
You teach that a person does not have to repent to be saved, but the scripture says, “and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”

You should repent and stop teaching that falseness.

 

[DHK]

That does not sit well with me. Maybe for you, but not for me.

Teachers don't sit well with you.
Preachers don't sit well with you.
Local churches don't sit well with you.
Apparently, the Bible doesn't sit well with you.
Jesus Christ, the same; yesterday, today and forever. At least is for me, but not for you.

He does not even know the Lord if he is practicing falseness. As for the Lord commanding that we join a local church, that is your adding to God’s word.

No, I have given you Scripture after Scripture. You are just ignoring the Word of God. We are commanded to be part of a local church. It is the NT example:
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

A person joins the church where he believes the truth is being taught. I would never choose the same church you would choose, because I know what you believe, and I believe it is false.

You threw in manmade wisdom. The scripture 2 Corinthians 5:15 is about not living to yourself, but living for Jesus.

When it is in the Bible it is not man-made wisdom. No man lives unto himself, but unto Christ. That last phrase does not nullify the first half of the verse. No man lives unto himself. Which part of that truth do you not understand. Our lives affect others. We need fellowship. Will your life have the effect of light or darkness on those around you?

Again, it is not a command to join a local church. The New Testament people needed to go to church to learn what was revealed to the Apostles. We have the Bible now.

Throw your Bible away then. The entire NT was written in the first century for first century Christians, wasn't it. None of it, according to that reasoning, is applicable for us today. You don't need any of it for it was all just for the first century.
You can't pick and choose what you want to believe. You can't simply say: "I don't like that doctrine, therefore I will say it is only for the first century." What kind of hermeneutic is that?? It must come from the Book of Moriah.

Your whole argument is flawed. What is so acceptable to you that a person should go and get further from the Truth by going to church and learning their false ways?

As I said, if you chose a church according to your doctrine I would never join it because of the false doctrine you believe in. However I believe in soul liberty. You can believe in what doctrines what you want. But you still need to go to church. Even Muslims go to mosques; Hindus go to Temples; all mankind knows that corporate worship of God is important. It is innate in our very being.

No, it is not false what I said. As for your church not being denominational, it is, even non-denominational churches are denominations.

Yes, what you said was false. There are many Bible-believing churches that are founded on the Word of God and have Christ as its head. You simply don't want to believe that.

No, I do not deny a sin nature. That is you continuing to make up things about what I say.

Then you do believe that the unsaved man cannot do good;
The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things like the Bible;
The unsaved man does not seek God.
--The person who believes that man has a sin nature will also believe in the above, for the sin nature of man causes man not to seek after God, and blinds his eyes to spiritual things. But you don't believe that and thus don't believe man has a sin nature. You can't have it both ways.

Jesus says faith is a work. Jesus’ work is light and easy.

However, That is not what he taught.
That is what the difference is.

The Ethiopian was reading about a prophecy about Jesus. Philip told him the New Testament.

Do you deny the Scripture? You do, and you keep on denying the Word of God even when it is quoted to you, explained to you, etc. You just deny it. Philip did not have the NT. He had the book of Isaiah, and that is all. Read this carefully:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
--Either you believe this Scripture or you don't. Which is it?

Of course, God uses others. If I did not think someone can be helped and learn about the truth, then I would not bother to write.

Then, by your own admission:
1. You should be a member of a local church and be taught of others, and
2. You should be actively engaged in carrying out the Great Commission,
for "God uses others."

You prove you have no understanding. It is a sin to commit murder. It is not a work not to commit murder. How do you think it is a work not to murder?

For all the law is summed up in two Great Commandments. Jesus quoted them in Matthew. Do you know what they are? Do you KEEP them? They are considered "works."

If they would not have fallen away, then they would be his sheep.

John 10:27-30 says what it says, and for you to infer that Jesus is lying about his promise in those verses is despicable.

No, repent means to be sorry for sins and turn from them. It is easy to prove you wrong. Who gives up sins they are not sorry for?

Nowhere in the Bible is any unsaved man commanded to be sorry for their sins.

The thief on the cross acknowledged Jesus before men. The Ethiopian acknowledged Jesus before Philip.

Christ is God, and Philip is one man. That doesn't fit the requirement of yours to confess before MEN, as in a public confession, does it?

That is not true.
Did you read Romans 10:10? With your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Yes. None of what you quoted or said, says anything about one feeling sorry for one's sins. One does not get saved because of their feelings. Shall I feel sorry for you??

I know the truth now. You say anything your religion tells you to say.

My faith is the Bible, and that is what I contend for. What you responded to is just two verses of the Bible. Look again:

The command to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature," is given to every believer with no exceptions. That includes you. You will find that out at the Judgement.

The Great Commission, and the Judgment Seat of Christ, are the two events I referred to in the Bible (Mat.28:19,20: 1Cor.3:11-15)

I gave you scripture. You just speak against the scriptures.

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

Again, I quote scripture and you prove you just do not accept God’s word that you argue against His word.

Colossians 1:6 that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth.

If you want everyone to believe that every single saved Ephesian, Galatian, Philippian, Roman, Corinthian, Thessalonian, Colossian, and saved Hebrew traveled to preach the gospel, then you have no understanding.

All of which you said is a perversion of the Word, demonstrates your twisting of the Word, just so you would not have to obey the Great Commission or witness. You sound like a hyper-Calvinist looking for a reason not to witness to anyone because God has already done it all. Man has no responsibility any longer. You are just like a hyper Calvinist in this irresponsibility.

You teach that we do not understand anything of God, but that we should hear about Jesus and believe. You are teaching that confusion.
You teach that a person does not have to repent to be saved, but the scripture says, “and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”

Repentance is not feeling sorry for one's sins, and a person doesn't have to feel sorry for his sins to be saved. Salvation is by faith alone, in Christ alone by grace alone.
Is that true?
Yes it is, but unfortunately you don't believe it. Sad!

 

[Moriah]

Teachers don't sit well with you.
Preachers don't sit well with you.
Local churches don't sit well with you.
Apparently, the Bible doesn't sit well with you.
Jesus Christ, the same; yesterday, today and forever. At least is for me, but not for you.

The Truth does not sit well with you. You cannot even debate without making up things about me.

I believe in what Jesus taught and the Apostles. I believe what the written Word of God says.

I have learned some truth from others, and I hope I have taught others too.

We are commanded to be part of a local church. It is the NT example:
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

A person joins the church where he believes the truth is being taught. I would never choose the same church you would choose, because I know what you believe, and I believe it is false.

It is not a sin not to join a church. It is wrong to join a church that fills you with falseness in any way.

When it is in the Bible it is not man-made wisdom. No man lives unto himself, but unto Christ. That last phrase does not nullify the first half of the verse. No man lives unto himself. Which part of that truth do you not understand. Our lives affect others. We need fellowship. Will your life have the effect of light or darkness on those around you?

You add your own human wisdom to the Word of God, I do not want your human wisdom, as if it were God’s, I want only God’s Truth. With your added words, you make John the Baptist's life sinful for living in the desert.

Then you do believe that the unsaved man cannot do good;

Having a sinful nature does not mean a person cannot do anything good. That is your false doctrine, something put in the mind of man, no doubt by the prince of the air.

The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things like the Bible;

Faith comes from hearing the word. If a person can understand nothing, as you say, then how do they say they believe in Jesus? Your teachings are nonsense.

After a person accepts Jesus as their Savior, God may open the eyes of their hearts to understand better.

The unsaved man does not seek God.

If you teach that, then you are a Calvinist.

--The person who believes that man has a sin nature will also believe in the above, for the sin nature of man causes man not to seek after God, and blinds his eyes to spiritual things. But you don't believe that and thus don't believe man has a sin nature. You can't have it both ways.

Not everyone is accustomed to living pleasing the sinful nature. Humans are flesh and spirit.

When a person hears the powerful message that saves, they are drawn to God by the hope they hear. If you want scriptures just let me know.

Do you deny the Scripture? You do, and you keep on denying the Word of God even when it is quoted to you, explained to you, etc. You just deny it. Philip did not have the NT. He had the book of Isaiah, and that is all. Read this carefully:

Listen carefully, PHILIP DID NOT HAVE THE WRITTEN DOWN NEW TESTAMENT YET, BUT HE WAS TAUGHT IT VERBALLY. Philip taught from the New Testament that was in his mind and heart after learning of it. The New Testament was not yet written down, but that does not mean it was not taught and learned!

ARE YOU THAT HARD TO TEACH?

For all the law is summed up in two Great Commandments. Jesus quoted them in Matthew. Do you know what they are? Do you KEEP them? They are considered "works."

It is not a work not to murder. It is not a work not to steal.

John 10:27-30 says what it says, and for you to infer that Jesus is lying about his promise in those verses is despicable.

A person has a choice too. Jesus will not let anyone fall away from him, but they must obey him.

Nowhere in the Bible is any unsaved man commanded to be sorry for their sins.

You deny the Word of God. I gave you many scriptures to say repent. Here is another one for you to think about carefully.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

Christ is God, and Philip is one man. That doesn't fit the requirement of yours to confess before MEN, as in a public confession, does it?

It is God’s word that we are to confess with our mouth. There were other people around when the thief confessed.

Yes. None of what you quoted or said, says anything about one feeling sorry for one's sins. One does not get saved because of their feelings. Shall I feel sorry for you??

With your mouth you confess and are saved. That is the Word of God. Are you going to start preaching the Truth?

 

[The Biblicist]

It is not a work not to murder. It is not a work not to steal - Moriah


May I ask you a question without either one of us blowing off at the handle? Do you distinguish between "good" and "bad" works? If you do, then is killing a "bad" or "evil" works in your opinion? If not, is it a "good" work to kill someone? Is stealing a "bad" work in your opinion? If not, is stealing a "good" work?

Now, I have asked these questions to ask you this final question. The Scripture repeatedly say that judgement day is a day when all will be judged "according to his works" whether they be GOOD or EVIL. On judgement day what would God classify stealing and killing as?

What would the opposite of stealing and killing be regarded by Christ and Paul? Do not they both regard that as "love" and do not they both say that all the commandments can be summarized by loving God (the first tablet of the ten commandments) and loving your neighbor (the second tablet)? Isn't this precisely what Paul says in Romans 13:

Rom. 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So would not killing someone and not stealing from someone be ACTS of "love" and is not ACTS of love a "good" work? If not then what are "good" works in contrast to "bad" or "evil" works???? If you admit an "evil" work is killing and stealing then would not a "good" work be the very opposite??

So how can you say that obedience to the law (not killing, not stealing) is not good works without also denying that killing and stealing are "evil" works especially in light of the following words of Christ?

Mt. 7:12 ¶ Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

The term "works" translates the Greek term "ergon" and simply means what a person DOES! Doing good to them is defined as obedience to the Law and the prophets and that is ACTS of love.

 

[Moriah]

May I ask you a question without either one of us blowing off at the handle? Do you distinguish between "good" and "bad" works? If you do, then is killing a "bad" or "evil" works in your opinion? If not, is it a "good" work to kill someone? Is stealing a "bad" work in your opinion? If not, is stealing a "good" work?

Killing is a sin. It is the work of the devil. Not to kill is not to do the work of the devil.

Now, I have asked these questions to ask you this final question. The Scripture repeatedly say that judgement day is a day when all will be judged "according to his works" whether they be GOOD or EVIL. On judgement day what would God classify stealing and killing as?

The works of the devil are bad, they are evil. Stealing and killing are evil works of the devil.

What would the opposite of stealing and killing be regarded by Christ and Paul? Do not they both regard that as "love" and do not they both say that all the commandments can be summarized by loving God (the first tablet of the ten commandments) and loving your neighbor (the second tablet)? Isn't this precisely what Paul says in Romans 13:

Rom. 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So would not killing someone and not stealing from someone be ACTS of "love" and is not ACTS of love a "good" work?

If you love then you will not hurt someone. If you love someone, then the good act is to treat them the way you would want to be treated.

If not then what are "good" works in contrast to "bad" or "evil" works???? If you admit an "evil" work is killing and stealing then would not a "good" work be the very opposite??

Not really, because there are hateful people out there who do not all kill someone. So, not murdering in itself is not the good work.

So how can you say that obedience to the law (not killing, not stealing) is not good works without also denying that killing and stealing are "evil" works especially in light of the following words of Christ?

Hopefully, I have explained that above.

Mt. 7:12 ¶ Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

The term "works" translates the Greek term "ergon" and simply means what a person DOES! Doing good to them is defined as obedience to the Law and the prophets and that is ACTS of love.

If a person does not do the evil work of the devil and kill, that does not mean they are doing a good work and loving someone. If you treat others kindly, that is good. If your brother or sister comes to you, if they are hungry and you feed them and clothe them that is good works.

 

[DHK]

The Truth does not sit well with you. You cannot even debate without making up things about me.

What have I made up Moriah?

Teachers don't sit well with you.
Preachers don't sit well with you.
Local churches don't sit well with you.
Apparently, the Bible doesn't sit well with you.

And shall we add to the above:
--denial of the sin nature of man, as demonstrated in your own theology.
--denial of eternal security.
--assertion that one can lose their salvation.
--belief that salvation is by works.
--denial that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone.
--denial of the Great Commission, etc. etc.
There is much more.

I believe in what Jesus taught and the Apostles. I believe what the written Word of God says.

Not according to the above. You deny some of the most basic truths of the Bible, so basic that they are fundamental to our faith and affect our salvation. Some would say that you are not saved according to your beliefs, the beliefs I just posted.

It is not a sin not to join a church. It is wrong to join a church that fills you with falseness in any way.

The Corinthian church had so many false beliefs in it that they were hard to count. There were even some that denied the resurrection of Christ (1Cor.15). Some committed terrible sins after they were saved--committing incest (immorality with his father's wife--1Cor.5:1-5). They took each other to court. (1Cor.6). God judged them in death because of their abuse of the Lord's Table (1Cor.11:30). There were factions and divisions throughout the church.
But it was a church and Paul urged them to stay together, have fellowship, correct the wrongs, and go on. Instead of obeying the Lord, Moriah, you would never even join the church to help out the believers. You would stay in your own self-righteousness and say: "I am too good for that church; they hold to false doctrine and I don't."
You are a hypocrite. If you ever find a perfect church, don't join it; then it won't be perfect.

You add your own human wisdom to the Word of God, I do not want your human wisdom, as if it were God’s, I want only God’s Truth. With your added words, you make John the Baptist's life sinful for living in the desert.

Where did that come from?
I quoted to you 2Cor.5:15 and the need for a local church and you reply with something about John the Baptist?? You are confused. I never said anything about John the Baptist.

Having a sinful nature does not mean a person cannot do anything good. That is your false doctrine, something put in the mind of man, no doubt by the prince of the air.

Your accusation of my beliefs coming from Satan is proof of your depraved nature. Such accusations are not allowed, and if another complains about it an infraction will be issued. Since when do you get off on attributing the things that I say from Satan??

Faith comes from hearing the word. If a person can understand nothing, as you say, then how do they say they believe in Jesus? Your teachings are nonsense.

After a person accepts Jesus as their Savior, God may open the eyes of their hearts to understand better.

Here was my statement:

The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things like the Bible;

I explain this over and over again, and you just go on other rabbit trails or don't even listen.
According to 1Cor.2:14, the unsaved man cannot, on his own, understand spiritual things. He needs (as the Ethiopian Eunuch) did, someone to show him the way. He cannot on his own understand spiritual things.

If you teach that, then you are a Calvinist.

If you don't believe it then you don't believe man has a sin nature. You can't have it both ways. It has nothing to do with Calvinism. Does man have a sin nature or not? If he does, then there are consequences.

Not everyone is accustomed to living pleasing the sinful nature. Humans are flesh and spirit.

When a person hears the powerful message that saves, they are drawn to God by the hope they hear. If you want scriptures just let me know.

What you just said is entirely moot to the statement at hand.
ALL people, whether they be Christian or not, have a sin nature. You demonstrated the ugliness of your sin nature when you attributed what I said to Satan. Would the Holy Spirit say that? No! That came from your carnal nature; your sin nature!

Listen carefully, PHILIP DID NOT HAVE THE WRITTEN DOWN NEW TESTAMENT YET, BUT HE WAS TAUGHT IT VERBALLY. Philip taught from the New Testament that was in his mind and heart after learning of it. The New Testament was not yet written down, but that does not mean it was not taught and learned!

ARE YOU THAT HARD TO TEACH?

Apparently you are "that" hard to teach for you refuse to believe the Scripture even when it is quoted and pasted right before your eyes. Here it is again:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
--Why do you have such a difficult time believing this Scripture?

If I want to witness to someone of Christ, there is nothing stopping me from confining myself to the book of Isaiah. I can teach the gospel in its entirety from the Book of Isaiah. Philip also could and did. The Bible says that he taught from the Book of Isaiah. Why do you refuse to believe the Scriptures.
Even Jesus took the Scriptures and taught the two walking on the road to Emmaus, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."
--Jesus didn't use a NT either.

It is not a work not to murder. It is not a work not to steal.

By thy works thou shalt be justified and by thy works thou shalt be condemned.
For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and be judged according to our works.
If you murder what kind of work will it be? Good or bad?
If you have kept the Law (Ten Commandments), will Christ consider that good or bad, at the Judgement Seat of Christ? How will you fare?

A person has a choice too. Jesus will not let anyone fall away from him, but they must obey him.

Salvation is never by obedience. That is heresy. Salvation is a free gift, and when it is received so is the gift of eternal life, which can never be taken away.

You deny the Word of God. I gave you many scriptures to say repent. Here is another one for you to think about carefully.

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened;

1. You have a wrong definition of repentance, so the verses are moot; meaningless.
2. The verse given is also meaningless for it is about Christians and prayer. It is not about unbelievers and repentance. It is a red herring.

It is God’s word that we are to confess with our mouth. There were other people around when the thief confessed.

The thief confessed only to Jesus.
The eunuch confessed only to Philip.
Neither one were public confessions, as such. That is not what the verse means.

With your mouth you confess and are saved. That is the Word of God. Are you going to start preaching the Truth?

I have the truth, and have already demonstrated that you don't, and by many people's standard they wouldn't consider you saved. Let me demonstrate that for you:

Do you believe that:
Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone?
Yes or no. Just answer yes or no.

 

[Moriah]

What have I made up Moriah?

Teachers don't sit well with you.
Preachers don't sit well with you.
Local churches don't sit well with you.
Apparently, the Bible doesn't sit well with you.

And shall we add to the above:
--denial of the sin nature of man, as demonstrated in your own theology.
--denial of eternal security.
--assertion that one can lose their salvation.
--belief that salvation is by works.
--denial that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone.
--denial of the Great Commission, etc. etc.
There is much more.

Not according to the above. You deny some of the most basic truths of the Bible, so basic that they are fundamental to our faith and affect our salvation. Some would say that you are not saved according to your beliefs, the beliefs I just posted.

The Corinthian church had so many false beliefs in it that they were hard to count. There were even some that denied the resurrection of Christ (1Cor.15). Some committed terrible sins after they were saved--committing incest (immorality with his father's wife--1Cor.5:1-5). They took each other to court. (1Cor.6). God judged them in death because of their abuse of the Lord's Table (1Cor.11:30). There were factions and divisions throughout the church.
But it was a church and Paul urged them to stay together, have fellowship, correct the wrongs, and go on. Instead of obeying the Lord, Moriah, you would never even join the church to help out the believers. You would stay in your own self-righteousness and say: "I am too good for that church; they hold to false doctrine and I don't."
You are a hypocrite. If you ever find a perfect church, don't join it; then it won't be perfect.

Where did that come from?
I quoted to you 2Cor.5:15 and the need for a local church and you reply with something about John the Baptist?? You are confused. I never said anything about John the Baptist.

Your accusation of my beliefs coming from Satan is proof of your depraved nature. Such accusations are not allowed, and if another complains about it an infraction will be issued. Since when do you get off on attributing the things that I say from Satan??

Here was my statement:

The unsaved man cannot understand spiritual things like the Bible;

I explain this over and over again, and you just go on other rabbit trails or don't even listen.
According to 1Cor.2:14, the unsaved man cannot, on his own, understand spiritual things. He needs (as the Ethiopian Eunuch) did, someone to show him the way. He cannot on his own understand spiritual things.

If you don't believe it then you don't believe man has a sin nature. You can't have it both ways. It has nothing to do with Calvinism. Does man have a sin nature or not? If he does, then there are consequences.

What you just said is entirely moot to the statement at hand.
ALL people, whether they be Christian or not, have a sin nature. You demonstrated the ugliness of your sin nature when you attributed what I said to Satan. Would the Holy Spirit say that? No! That came from your carnal nature; your sin nature!

Apparently you are "that" hard to teach for you refuse to believe the Scripture even when it is quoted and pasted right before your eyes. Here it is again:

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
--Why do you have such a difficult time believing this Scripture?

If I want to witness to someone of Christ, there is nothing stopping me from confining myself to the book of Isaiah. I can teach the gospel in its entirety from the Book of Isaiah. Philip also could and did. The Bible says that he taught from the Book of Isaiah. Why do you refuse to believe the Scriptures.
Even Jesus took the Scriptures and taught the two walking on the road to Emmaus, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."
--Jesus didn't use a NT either.

By thy works thou shalt be justified and by thy works thou shalt be condemned.
For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and be judged according to our works.
If you murder what kind of work will it be? Good or bad?
If you have kept the Law (Ten Commandments), will Christ consider that good or bad, at the Judgement Seat of Christ? How will you fare?

Salvation is never by obedience. That is heresy. Salvation is a free gift, and when it is received so is the gift of eternal life, which can never be taken away.

1. You have a wrong definition of repentance, so the verses are moot; meaningless.
2. The verse given is also meaningless for it is about Christians and prayer. It is not about unbelievers and repentance. It is a red herring.

The thief confessed only to Jesus.
The eunuch confessed only to Philip.
Neither one were public confessions, as such. That is not what the verse means.

I have the truth, and have already demonstrated that you don't, and by many people's standard they wouldn't consider you saved. Let me demonstrate that for you:

Do you believe that:
Salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone?
Yes or no. Just answer yes or no.

Philip was taught the New Testament gospel and taught it to the eunuch. Philip was able to explain Isaiah to the eunuch about Jesus, because Philip was taught from the New Testament gospel. Philip learned the New Testament gospel verbally.

The thief confessed Jesus in front of men. The thief confessed Jesus in front of the other thief on the cross, and in front of the people at the foot of the cross.

It is not a good work not to kill or steal. If you love then you will not hurt someone. It is a good work to treat others the way you would like to be treated. It is a good work to feed and clothe your hungry brother or sister. It is a good work to take care of your needy relatives.

I love reading the truth written by other people. I have been strengthened by some people’s writings and speeches about the Lord. It is not a sin not to join a church.

Jesus knows all people’s heart. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts. Jesus accepts those who obey him. We can be sure of our salvation. However, we are warned not to fall away. We are warned not to keep sinning.

Humans have a sin nature; it does not mean they are totally depraved. Even the ungrateful and wicked love their own. Jesus tells us a parable about a good Samaritan.

With your mouth you confess and are saved. That is the Word of God. Are you going to start preaching the Truth? Why do you go against God’s Word?

The only time the Bible says “faith alone,” it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

 

[The Biblicist]

Killing is a sin. It is the work of the devil. Not to kill is not to do the work of the devil.

The works of the devil are bad, they are evil. Stealing and killing are evil works of the devil.

You admit that killing is a WORK and EVIL WORK but you deny that OBEYING the law by NOT KILLING cannot be regarded as a "GOOD" work??????

So you are saying that one can VIOLATE God's law and that is called "evil works" but if they OBEY God's law by NOT killing, NOT stealing then that cannot be called "GOOD WORKS"??? So you are suggesting that obeying God's Law and not cursing, not committing idoltry, not stealing, not lying, not stealing, etc. is really NOT DISOBEDIENCE (evil works) but it is NOT OBEDIENCE either (good works)????? If disobedience is an EVIL work why is not OBEDIENCE by not violating it a "GOOD WORK"??????? Are you suggesting that OBEDIENCE to the law is not good or evil???

If you love then you will not hurt someone.

So love equals NOT hurting them???? Isn't that what you just said??? Why isn't that a "GOOD" work since that is the opposite of DISOBEDIENCE to God's law?????? Again, are you saying that OBEDIENCE to God's law is not a "good" work? Does not that require restraining evil? Does not that require submitting to the Law of God by NOT violating?

Where do you think EVIL works begin? Jesus says they begin IN THE HEART:

Mt. 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

So where do you think GOOD thoughts, and obedience to the law come from? Where do you think self-control and NOT murding, not committing adultery, not stealing, not lying, not blaspheming comes from? Isn't NOT determining from the heart to do these things is OBEDIENCE to the Law?

If you love someone, then the good act is to treat them the way you would want to be treated.

Do you think by using the word "act" instead of "work" that ACTIONS are not WORKS? Do you know what the word "works" mean? The Greek term "ergon" describes what a person DOES or his ACTIONS (both internal actions of the heart and external actions of the body as the above text proves).

Do you think by using the term "TREATED" that is not "WORKS" or your "DEEDS"? The same Greek term translated "works" is the same Greek term translated "deeds" in scripture?

Not really, because there are hateful people out there who do not all kill someone. So, not murdering in itself is not the good work.

So you are claiming that OBEYING God's Law is not "good works" as OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW is "NOT" doing those things as that is precisely what the Law commands NOT to do?

So you are claiming that OBEDIENCE to God's law is NEUTRAL - neither good or evil?????? what in the world does God judge as "good" works on judgement day if OBEDIENCE to God's law is not "good" works? Where does OBEDIENCE to God's Law originate from? Doesn't it originate from the same place that DISOBEDIENCE originates from and that is the heart and DISOBEDIENCE you admit is EVIL works? Why isn't OBEDIENCE then "good" works since both begin IN the heart?

Does not God say that Adultery is already committed IN THE HEART when a man but LOOKS with lust upon a woman? Does not that prove that "works" include ACTIONS of the heart as well as ACTIONS of the body and thus both are "works" in God's sight?

If evil ACTIONS of the heart violate the law of God why are not GOOD actions of the heart regarded as OBEDIENCE to the Law then why are they not "GOOD" works or does it matter what we do comes from the heart or not?

The fact that God sees violation of the Law a HEART action why does not God see OBEDIENCE of the law a HEART action???

 

[The Biblicist]

You admit that killing is a WORK and EVIL WORK but you deny that OBEYING the law by NOT KILLING cannot be regarded as a "GOOD" work??????

So you are saying that one can VIOLATE God's law and that is called "evil works" but if they OBEY God's law by NOT killing, NOT stealing then that cannot be called "GOOD WORKS"??? So you are suggesting that obeying God's Law and not cursing, not committing idoltry, not stealing, not lying, not stealing, etc. is really NOT DISOBEDIENCE (evil works) but it is NOT OBEDIENCE either (good works)????? If disobedience is an EVIL work why is not OBEDIENCE by not violating it a "GOOD WORK"??????? Are you suggesting that OBEDIENCE to the law is not good or evil???




So love equals NOT hurting them???? Isn't that what you just said??? Why isn't that a "GOOD" work since that is the opposite of DISOBEDIENCE to God's law?????? Again, are you saying that OBEDIENCE to God's law is not a "good" work? Does not that require restraining evil? Does not that require submitting to the Law of God by NOT violating?

Where do you think EVIL works begin? Jesus says they begin IN THE HEART:

Mt. 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

So where do you think GOOD thoughts, and obedience to the law come from? Where do you think self-control and NOT murding, not committing adultery, not stealing, not lying, not blaspheming comes from? Isn't NOT determining from the heart to do these things is OBEDIENCE to the Law?





Do you think by using the word "act" instead of "work" that ACTIONS are not WORKS? Do you know what the word "works" mean? The Greek term "ergon" describes what a person DOES or his ACTIONS (both internal actions of the heart and external actions of the body as the above text proves).

Do you think by using the term "TREATED" that is not "WORKS" or your "DEEDS"? The same Greek term translated "works" is the same Greek term translated "deeds" in scripture?




So you are claiming that OBEYING God's Law is not "good works" as OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW is "NOT" doing those things as that is precisely what the Law commands NOT to do?

So you are claiming that OBEDIENCE to God's law is NEUTRAL - neither good or evil?????? what in the world does God judge as "good" works on judgement day if OBEDIENCE to God's law is not "good" works? Where does OBEDIENCE to God's Law originate from? Doesn't it originate from the same place that DISOBEDIENCE originates from and that is the heart and DISOBEDIENCE you admit is EVIL works? Why isn't OBEDIENCE then "good" works since both begin IN the heart?

Does not God say that Adultery is already committed IN THE HEART when a man but LOOKS with lust upon a woman? Does not that prove that "works" include ACTIONS of the heart as well as ACTIONS of the body and thus both are "works" in God's sight?

If evil ACTIONS of the heart violate the law of God why are not GOOD actions of the heart regarded as OBEDIENCE to the Law then why are they not "GOOD" works or does it matter what we do comes from the heart or not?

The fact that God sees violation of the Law a HEART action why does not God see OBEDIENCE of the law a HEART action???

My point is very simple. God sees the action of the heart to commit evil as a violation of His law previous to that action being carried out by the body and thus an evil work before it proceeds out of the heart. Thus Lust in the heart violates "thou shalt not commit adultery.

Hence, the reverse would be equally true! God looks upon the heart and the heart that does not violate the law must be regarded as OBEDIENCE to the law and that obedience is manifested by the body in NOT disobeying the law.

You cannot demand that DISOBEDIENCE is an evil work and consistently deny that OBEDIENCE is a good work. If that were the case than what would "good" works be defined on judgement day if it is not ACTS of obedience FROM THE HEART manifested by ACTS from the body????

Can one have a "good work" that does not originate from a GOOD ACTION from the heart??????

Furthermore, if HEART VIOLATION is an EVIL WORK then HEART OBEDIENCE must be regarded as a GOOD WORK even if circumstances does not permit the BODY to administer that good work in life but it is confined to the heart just like LUST confined to the heart and prevented by circumstances from being acted out by the body is still regarded an EVIL WORK and DISOBEDIENCE to the Law of God.

 

[Moriah]

You admit that killing is a WORK and EVIL WORK but you deny that OBEYING the law by NOT KILLING cannot be regarded as a "GOOD" work??????

What do you say to God every day, do you say I have done a good work, I have not killed someone today?
On the other hand, do you say, I have fed my needing brother and clothed him?

So you are saying that one can VIOLATE God's law and that is called "evil works" but if they OBEY God's law by NOT killing, NOT stealing then that cannot be called "GOOD WORKS"??? So you are suggesting that obeying God's Law and not cursing, not committing idoltry, not stealing, not lying, not stealing, etc. is really NOT DISOBEDIENCE (evil works) but it is NOT OBEDIENCE either (good works)????? If disobedience is an EVIL work why is not OBEDIENCE by not violating it a "GOOD WORK"??????? Are you suggesting that OBEDIENCE to the law is not good or evil???

It is not a work not to commit adultery on your wife. It is a good work to give yourself up for your wife, as Christ loved the church.

So love equals NOT hurting them???? Isn't that what you just said??? Why isn't that a "GOOD" work since that is the opposite of DISOBEDIENCE to God's law??????

You do not kill someone today, but did your brother or sister come to you in need and you turned him or her away?

Again, are you saying that OBEDIENCE to God's law is not a "good" work?

We have to surpass the righteousness of the Pharisees and teachers of the law. We are not to murder, and we are not to even be angry with our brother. If you love, then you will not hurt someone, but you will not turn them away in their need either.

Does not that require restraining evil? Does not that require submitting to the Law of God by NOT violating?

Restraining evil you say, but is that how you live, restraining from evil? We are to submit to God. We are to live in love. If you are living in love, you do not have to fight the evil. Live in love.

Where do you think EVIL works begin? Jesus says they begin IN THE HEART:

Mt. 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

So where do you think GOOD thoughts, and obedience to the law come from? Where do you think self-control and NOT murding, not committing adultery, not stealing, not lying, not blaspheming comes from? Isn't NOT determining from the heart to do these things is OBEDIENCE to the Law?

After obeying Jesus, we can love each other sincerely from the heart. If you live and react in love, there really is no struggling with evil.

Do you think by using the word "act" instead of "work" that ACTIONS are not WORKS? Do you know what the word "works" mean? The Greek term "ergon" describes what a person DOES or his ACTIONS (both internal actions of the heart and external actions of the body as the above text proves).

Then according to your definition right there…how do you call not doing a murder an act? How do you call doing nothing a work? If a person is not murdering, they are not working or acting.

Does not God say that Adultery is already committed IN THE HEART when a man but LOOKS with lust upon a woman? Does not that prove that "works" include ACTIONS of the heart as well as ACTIONS of the body and thus both are "works" in God's sight?

Not cheating on your wife is not a work. Giving yourself up for her is love, and that is how we are supposed to live. A man might not cheat on his wife; however, does he really love her? How do you know? Maybe he is not cheating because he does not have the opportunity. However, if he gives himself up for her, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, then he is doing a good thing.

If evil ACTIONS of the heart violate the law of God why are not GOOD actions of the heart regarded as OBEDIENCE to the Law then why are they not "GOOD" works or does it matter what we do comes from the heart or not?
The fact that God sees violation of the Law a HEART action why does not God see OBEDIENCE of the law a HEART action???

We have to obey what Jesus says to do, then we can love each other sincerely from the heart. Maybe a man does not murder because he does not want to spend the rest of his life in jail. However, what if a man has learned from God that anger in the heart is murder, then he will not even be angry. If a man has love of Jesus in his heart, then he will have the power to overcome by faith in Jesus. If a man has love in his heart, he will not do harm to anyone, and he will treat others the way he wants to be treated.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is the BIBLICAL comment to what you said.

Because what you said is NOT what the scriptures in Romans is about.

You do not see it because your false teachers used those scriptures to make new doctrines. Read the whole passage, even if you have to read the whole Chapter and the next.


Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets. That does not mean we can sin now.
Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets. That means everything that the Old Testament prophesied about, Jesus fulfilled. It means we do not have to observe special days.
It means we do not have to have to get animals and sacrifice them. It means we do not have to do Burnt Offering, Sin Offering, Fellowship Offering, etc. It means all our sins were paid for.

You just added to God’s word again, which nullifies God’s word. Your conclusion is made up words to support false doctrines.

Jesus tells us what we must do to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees!
Jesus says we must not murder, but we are not even to be angry with our brother!
YOU KEEP TRYING TO GET RID OF THE COMMANDS OF JESUS.
Jesus says the Pharisees do not practice what they preach!
We are to obey Jesus.

Are you kidding? The VERY FIRST SCRIPTURE THAT STARTS IN ROMANS 3 mentions circumcision!!
THEN that very same passage mentions circumcision again, JUST FIVE SCRIPTURES from the last one you quoted!
The scriptures you quote and use for false doctrines claiming we do not have to obey and are not expected to obey…THOSE SCRIPTURES IN THAT CHAPTER BEGIN AND END WITH CIRCUMCISION! LOLOLOLOL

a christian is to obey the Lord after he gets saved by the grace of God, because he wants to, NOT due to he HAS to!

 

[Moriah]

a chrsitian is to obey the Lord after he gets saved by the grace of God, because he wants to, NOT due to he HAS to!

A person of course should want to obey, and the person has to obey.

You are fighting for nonsense.

 

[DHK]

Philip was taught the New Testament gospel and taught it to the eunuch. Philip was able to explain Isaiah to the eunuch about Jesus, because Philip was taught from the New Testament gospel. Philip learned the New Testament gospel verbally.

Philip used the Word of God, as the Bible says he did. Why don't you believe the Bible. From the same Scripture he preached unto him Jesus. Why is it so hard to believe that?

The thief confessed Jesus in front of men. The thief confessed Jesus in front of the other thief on the cross, and in front of the people at the foot of the cross.

Lord, Remember ME when YOU enter into your kingdom.
Today YOU shall be with me in paradise.

That short conversation was carried on by two dying men on two crosses. They may have been crucified in public, but I am sure they weren't shouting to each other. They didn't have the strength. It was not a confession before "men," but rather a plea before Jesus alone.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was alone in the desert. The only one that was present was Philip. It was hardly a public confession. You cant' get around that. To confess does mean "public."

It is not a good work not to kill or steal. If you love then you will not hurt someone.

You said "love." Love is the great commandment. Love is obedience. It is the one commandment you keep you keep emphasizing. Love is not hurting; love is not killing. That is what Jesus said. Therefore not to kill is a work; it is the work of love.

It is a good work to treat others the way you would like to be treated.

Love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore, don't kill them.

It is a good work to feed and clothe your hungry brother or sister. It is a good work to take care of your needy relatives.

Love your neighbor as yourself, therefore don't neglect them.
Just because a command is stated in the negative doesn't mean it is not a command. Thou shalt not commit adultery is stated in the negative. Thou shalt keep yourself pure is stated in the positive. Both are the same command. Just because one is stated with a negative does not meant it is not a command.

I love reading the truth written by other people. I have been strengthened by some people’s writings and speeches about the Lord. It is not a sin not to join a church.

That only makes you a hypocrite and avoiding the command and example of avoiding connecting yourself with a local church. Did you know that Jesus died for the church. He wrote that to the local church at Ephesus.

What books do you get teaching and blessing from? Do you agree with them all? What books do you have that agree with all your false doctrine. I don't think you have any. Do you have a systematic theology book that agrees with you? If so, which one? Most systematic theology are written by Calvinists. Most systematic theology books are not dispensational. That is just one example. What kind of commentaries do you use that you agree with? Most of the older ones like Barnes are Calvinistic, and many of the newer ones are Calvinistic as well such as MacArthur. Which do you use?
For all the error that you hold to it would be difficult to find books to teach the error that you believe.

Jesus knows all people’s heart. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those he accepts. Jesus accepts those who obey him. We can be sure of our salvation. However, we are warned not to fall away. We are warned not to keep sinning.

If you read good books you would know that this isn't true.
All who come to Christ receive the Holy Spirit at the time they are saved.
No one receives Christ on the basis of obedience, but rather on the basis of faith alone.
You say we are warned not to keep sinning. What are the consequences if we keep sinning? Do we lose our salvation?
I have been noticing that you sin every day on this board. You falsely accuse; tell people that they aren't saved; accuse people that their words are from Satan. You sin with your mouth, your words, every day. What is going to happen to you, according to your own words?

Humans have a sin nature; it does not mean they are totally depraved. Even the ungrateful and wicked love their own. Jesus tells us a parable about a good Samaritan.

I went to your website. You posted what you think Calvinists believe. What you posted was slanderous to the Calvinist if he takes it personally. Most of it is false. You did not post the truth concerning the Calvinism. You don't even know what Calvinism teaches and then you become a supposed authority on it and post what they don't believe. That is a terrible sin.

I believe in the depravity of man. That is not necessarily a Calvinistic doctrine; but it is Biblical.
The Calvinist takes it a step further. He believes in the total inability of man. I don't believe that. You need to find out the difference.

With your mouth you confess and are saved. That is the Word of God. Are you going to start preaching the Truth? Why do you go against God’s Word?

You don't even know what the verse means. When are you going to start studying your Bible.

The only time the Bible says “faith alone,” it is to tell us what kind of faith not to have.

And you don't know what that verse means even though it has been explained to you many times.
Faith is not a work. Study Romans 4:1-5 and find out that faith cannot be a work, and that a man is saved by faith without works--any kind of works, good works, obedience, etc. He is saved by faith and faith alone. Study the passage carefully.

 

[Moriah]

Philip used the Word of God, as the Bible says he did. Why don't you believe the Bible. From the same Scripture he preached unto him Jesus. Why is it so hard to believe that?

I will try again to explain it to you.

Philip was from the New Testament times.

Philip was verbally taught about Jesus.

Philip could teach the eunuch about Jesus because Philip himself was taught about Jesus from the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of Jesus Christ, which was taught to Philip verbally.

 

[Yeshua1]

A person of course should want to obey, and the person has to obey.

You are fighting for nonsense.

No!

Big difference between one who is saved by the grace of god, and wants to please His father than one also saved, but under must obey/have to obey God!

one is a child of God, other a slave!

 

[Moriah]

Lord, Remember ME when YOU enter into your kingdom.
Today YOU shall be with me in paradise.

That short conversation was carried on by two dying men on two crosses. They may have been crucified in public, but I am sure they weren't shouting to each other. They didn't have the strength. It was not a confession before "men," but rather a plea before Jesus alone.

The Ethiopian Eunuch was alone in the desert. The only one that was present was Philip. It was hardly a public confession. You cant' get around that. To confess does mean "public."

Jesus knows our hearts. Jesus knows if we will or will not confess him to others.

The thief publicly confessed Jesus. The thief confessed Jesus in front of the other thief and in front of those at the foot of the cross.

The eunuch confessed Jesus in front of Philip.

The Bible says, "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

"For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

There were people in the New Testament times who believed in Jesus, but they would not confess Jesus before men.

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.

But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven."