Is Cal/Non-Cal important enough to divide?

[12strings]

Ahhh, I just asked for a simple yes or no answer!

I know! Frustrating isn't it! :thumbsup:

Simple answer, then: NO, since I don't know how you are defining "grace."

I think Jesus Saved me. So grace did not do it all by itself!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I know! Frustrating isn't it! :thumbsup:

Simple answer, then: NO, since I don't know how you are defining "grace."

I think Jesus Saved me. So grace did not do it all by itself!

And your well aware of course that it isnt my intent to impute Christ. :laugh:

Rather I just wanted to know if some on here believe that Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God who takes the initiative and man (who has to respond) with mans response being the determining factor ...or is it all of God. Now the question is multiple choice.

 

[seekingthetruth]

I'd like to address Seeking, if he's still following this thread:





-I think you are drawing to sharp a distinction here between calvinists and "regular Christians." Many Calvinists are "regular Christians." "Regular" is defined differently by everyone. Many people would draw a sharp distinction between "Baptists" and "regular Christians." I think they would be in error.
-Read Tom Butler's long post on this thread where he gives a long list of things the cals and non-cals agree on. I would say Calvinism is not teaching "A different path to salvation." Rather, they are simply interpreting scriptures differently about God's behind-the-scenes workings in salvation.



-I don't think there is any doubt that you are giving Calvinists way too much credit/notoriety here. I have seen DOZENS of families and lives wrecked irreversibly by sexual immorality, and seen zero wrecked by Calvinism.

Sexual immorality nor Calvinism can wreck me or my family, but both can wreck a congregation if they are accepted and not condemned.

The church I am a member of places a high value on the fact that the Bible offers Grace and salvation to the whole world, and would fight very strongly against anyone in our congregation that was teaching others that only certain ones are "elect" or "chosen" and all the rest have no hope of salvation. They would prevail over one or two families of Cals, but the church would cease to exist if there was enough opposition to free will to cause a split.

We simply would not accept a Cal as a member.

John

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sexual immorality nor Calvinism can wreck me or my family, but both can wreck a congregation if they are accepted and not condemned.

The church I am a member of places a high value on the fact that the Bible offers Grace and salvation to the whole world, and would fight very strongly against anyone in our congregation that was teaching others that only certain ones are "elect" or "chosen" and all the rest have no hope of salvation. They would prevail over one or two families of Cals, but the church would cease to exist if there was enough opposition to free will to cause a split.

We simply would not accept a Cal as a member.

John

With all intended respect, then your church is false. You have read about other churches that are inclusive like Tom's but your saying that they cant work so therefore exclude a Calvinist. May I ask, are you IFB?

 

[quantumfaith]

And your well aware of course that it isnt my intent to impute Christ. :laugh:

Rather I just wanted to know if some on here believe that Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God Who takes the initiative and man (who has to respond) with mans response being the determining factor ...or is it all of God. Now the question is multiple choice.

Put me down for this one.

 

[mandym]

Rather I just wanted to know if some on here believe that Salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God who takes the initiative and man (who has to respond) with mans response being the determining factor ...or is it all of God. Now the question is multiple choice.

It is all of God even with man's response.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Put me down for this one.

OK... A or B...... Can I bet on your answer? :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is all of God even with man's response.

Well Mandy....I'm impressed! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[mandym]

Well Mandy....I'm impressed! :smilewinkgrin:

It is all of God even with man's response and even though man can resist as God has ordained.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And there is a clear example of the reason for division. Such statements would split a church.

Well then you are operating off of Fear that a "Calvinist" would & could, by mere opinion. split up your church...... I would conclude it truly wasn't a strong church in the first place....but there and again, thats my own personal opinion.

Go back & again take a look at Tom Butlers testimony, please read it, absorb it & then tell me if they are cohesive in there love for one another & committed to the sanctity of the whole church. Then do you feel that commentary like what I made would rip them apart? I'm guessing it would not.

Beware however....we are out here,,,,measuring your every move. :laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It is all of God even with man's response and even though man can resist as God has ordained.

Why in heavens name would he ever want to resist.....he has been given salvation? And why would God ever, ever, ever offer salvation to someone so deranged. That person does deserve hell & Im sure he is granted it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[mandym]

Why in heavens name would he ever want to resist.....he has been given salvation?

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

And why would God ever, ever, ever offer salvation to someone so deranged.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

That person does deserve hell & Im sure he is granted it. :smilewinkgrin:

Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Joh 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Joh 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.




Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.




Rom 3:10 as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one;

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this not for yourselves, it is a Gift of God---not by works, so no one can boast (Eph. 2:8-9)

 

[mandym]

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this not for yourselves, it is a Gift of God---not by works, so no one can boast (Eph. 2:8-9)

Exactly :thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Since I live in the NE portion of the States, Im going to have to Google some articles for research in order to find out what this rift is really all about. I suspect these Arminian SBC Churches are fearful that the dreaded Calvies will wreck their churches....well as we like to say, God is Sovereign & if its His will ....ROFL

Seriously though, can anyone point me to articles addressing this ridiculous food fight?

Thanks

 

[jonathan.borland]

So answer the question that Tom didnt answer .... Ready.., Yes or No is preferred... Is salvation by grace alone?

Yes, by grace through faith.

 

[quantumfaith]

OK... A or B...... Can I bet on your answer? :laugh:

EWF, I am a 'syngergist", as I am personally convinced that salvation requires my response of faith, trust, repentance and confession. I do not think my salvation happens without my "cooperation". I believe that God grants me the right to reject every bit of light and revelation of himself that he throws my way.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF, I am a 'syngergist", as I am personally convinced that salvation requires my response of faith, trust, repentance and confession. I do not think my salvation happens without my "cooperation". I believe that God grants me the right to reject every bit of light and revelation of himself that he throws my way.

You dont say! And Thinking Stuff is now a Roman Catholic.! Would you say he is closer to your way of thinking or mine?

 

[seekingthetruth]

Since I live in the NE portion of the States, Im going to have to Google some articles for research in order to find out what this rift is really all about. I suspect these Arminian SBC Churches are fearful that the dreaded Calvies will wreck their churches....well as we like to say, God is Sovereign & if its His will ....ROFL

Seriously though, can anyone point me to articles addressing this ridiculous food fight?

Thanks

The SBC is NOT Arminian. General Baptists and Freewill Baptists are two baptists that I know of that are Arminian, but the SBC is certainly not.

Some are Cal but none are Arminian. At least none that Ihave ever heard of. They all, as far as I know believe in eternal security, which is not Arminian by any streatch.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this not for yourselves, it is a Gift of God---not by works, so no one can boast (Eph. 2:8-9)

I don't inderstand your reasoning here.

Of course Grace through Faith is a gift from God.....but where does it say that the gift cannot be rejected?

Or that it is only given to the 'chosen"?

John