Is Calvinism a False Doctrine?

[TaliOrlando]

I hope you are all having an awesome morning, its 12:56 AM here in Orlando and its pretty cold. With pretty cold I mean 61 degress.

Please read the following, it might take 20 mins or so but its worth it. Please check it out and tell me your thoughts.... It also talks about how John Calvin was a murderer and it has historical events as well.

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm

 

[TCGreek]

The doctrines of grace need no defense. They just need to be presented.

Concering John Calvin, there are better and more accurate sources out there.

 

[StefanM]

I'm not a Calvinist, but I will say that I'd rather have 15 5-point Calvinists in the pews than one Pelagian (as is often found in them).

 

[Tom Butler]

Tali, to see the best arguments pro and con, check the current Baptist Debate categories. There are more threads on Calvinism than you can read in six months.

I'm amazed that nobody bit on your question and started another debate. Raising this subject on this board is like saying "sic-'em" to a dog.

 

[TaliOrlando]

Tali, to see the best arguments pro and con, check the current Baptist Debate categories. There are more threads on Calvinism than you can read in six months.

I'm amazed that nobody bit on your question and started another debate. Raising this subject on this board is like saying "sic-'em" to a dog.

Really??? Opps... I didnt mean to.... I was just asking the question. I hope no one gets mad and starts "sic-em" with me.

Isnt it a fact though that Jonh Calvin murdered many? So why even accept any a murderer says.. thats why I am asking?

Example: In the prosperity Gospel, it was basically founded by Hagin who was studying under E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. I mean and people attack that like its a huge monster from out of space but when a man called John Calvin who is know to have commited murders people take it like nothing and brush that to the side.

Example: I Tali, go on and commit a few murders right now in the name of Jesus.... and then start making books that have good theology? Would you buy my books? Of course not.. why? because of the fruits... a tree cannot bear good fruit and bad fruits... its either one or the other..

These are the doubts I have and I ask alot of questions.. so I hope those that are calvanist can answer why they even take anything from a man who through out hist is know to have at least murdered over 50 people?

Why not just take from our Saviour Jesus Christ... who paid the price at the cross for our sins and just read the word.

 

[Rippon]

Really??? Opps... I didnt mean to.... I was just asking the question. I hope no one gets mad and starts "sic-em" with me.

Isnt it a fact though that Jonh Calvin murdered many? So why even accept any a murderer says.. thats why I am asking?



These are the doubts I have and I ask alot of questions.. so I hope those that are calvanist can answer why they even take anything from a man who through out hist is know to have at least murdered over 50 people?

First of all I find you incredibly disingenuous . " I'm just asking questions ..."

"Calvin the killer" has been done over and over on the BB . Check out old threads on the matter .

He did not kill ( or murder anyone ) . He was not even a citizen of Geneva until 1559 , which was five years before his death .

So if you want to repeat lies gotten from wacko websites please take it somewhere else . If you want to discuss theology than do so . Don't try to mix your sloppy slanders with doctrinal discussions .

 

[TaliOrlando]

First of all I find you incredibly disingenuous . " I'm just asking questions ..."

"Calvin the killer" has been done over and over on the BB . Check out old threads on the matter .

He did not kill ( or murder anyone ) . He was not even a citizen of Geneva until 1559 , which was five years before his death .

So if you want to repeat lies gotten from wacko wsbsites please take it somewhere else . If you want to discuss theology than do so . Don't try to mix your sloppy slanders with doctrinal discussions .

See.. this is what I dont get. I honestly apologize that my English is not that well... I truly do. This is why I cant honestly express my self the way I want to. If you are trying to defend Calvin by acting the way you are with a little bit of anger to it.. then you are not representing him in in a good way in fact you make me a little sad because arent we supposed to be brothers in Christ. Why talk to a young Christian who is just asking questions and just trying to get the truth that way.

Jesus got thrown rocks at.. yelled at. screamed at... but he still kept on talking in love and that love is honestly missing from you way you expressed. I honestly dont think you did it on purpose, you are probably upset with people who question calvanism and thats cool.. I dont care we all have bad days... but maybe its the way calvanist respond with such arrogance at times that make people doubt? :tear:

I love you though bro... God is good.. and he loves us all.... please forgive me if I have offended you... it honestly has not been my intent... I say that with an open heart. I do ask alot of questions... sorry..:1_grouphug:

 

[BobRyan]

I am always suspicious of what the RCC documents regarding those who opposed them in the dark ages.

Having said that - I am absolutely not in favor of Calvinism. But it has nothing at all to do with my opinion of the work of John Calvinin or whether he violated the principle of separation of church and state like all his other Catholic counterparts.

My objections to the errors in Calvinism are strictly based on what the Bible actually says vs what Calvinism tries to argue. Does the fact that I find calvinism to be in contradiction to scripture - make Calvinism "False doctrine"? (No matter how saintly John Calvin may have been).

Probably so --

But having said THAT -- I do agree with some of the basic principles in Calvinism on PERSEVERANCE and on Depravity - as do many Arminians today. Those who are saved in the end of their life - will see that from the last point of conversion they truly perevered firm until the end in their faith. And NO one has the "inner power" to do good and seek after God without God doing HIS WORK of "DRAWING ALL MANKIND unto Him" John 12:32.

However - I do not agree that the "Atoning Sacrifice of Christ" was in any way "limited" to just those that God foreknew would go to heaven.

And of course as the "consistent Arminian position demands" - I would have to reject the distinctively Calvinist - OSAS teaching.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: Concering John Calvin, there are better and more accurate sources out there.

HP: I have not even read that source, but it is obvious you feel that something that was accredited to or said about Calvin that is in error. Would you mind telling us what that might consist of?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

BR: But having said THAT -- I do agree with some of the basic principles in Calvinism on PERSEVERANCE and on Depravity - as do many Arminians today.

HP: Where were you when Wesley needed your insight? John Wesley would not have to wait another moment to see what it was that consistently bothered him about being “far too close” to Calvinism and the deterministic notions associated with and driven by those beliefs.

By the way, the Arminian and Calvinistic positions on perseverance of the saints, are not synonymous by any means.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rippon: So if you want to repeat lies gotten from wacko websites please take it somewhere else . If you want to discuss theology than do so . Don't try to mix your sloppy slanders with doctrinal discussions .

HP: So are you denying that Calvin played a clear role in the burning of Servetus at the stake? If you are, what is your source of evidence? Just wondering.

 

[gb93433]

I hope you are all having an awesome morning, its 12:56 AM here in Orlando and its pretty cold. With pretty cold I mean 61 degress.

Please read the following, it might take 20 mins or so but its worth it. Please check it out and tell me your thoughts.... It also talks about how John Calvin was a murderer and it has historical events as well.

http://www.biblelife.org/calvinism.htm

Anyone who follow John Calvin has made him an idol. Even John Calvin realized the short comings of his own theology.

 

[TCGreek]

HP: I have not even read that source, but it is obvious you feel that something that was accredited to or said about Calvin that is in error. Would you mind telling us what that might consist of?

HP, read the OP and you'll see to charge leveled at Calvin.

 

[TCGreek]

Anyone who follow John Calvin has made him an idol. Even John Calvin realized the short comings of his own theology.

Can you give me a few names of people who have made Calvin an idol?

 

[gb93433]

Can you give me a few names of people who have made Calvin an idol?

Anyone who calls themself a Calvinist.

 

[TaliOrlando]

Can you give me a few names of people who have made Calvin an idol?

I know this question isnt for me but to me.. I see so many calvanist blood boil when someone even says something bad about John Calvin. To me thats idolatry.. I can see you getting upset over what someone says about Jesus but a man.. I dont know. John Calvin is just a man...

 

[TCGreek]

Anyone who calls themself a Calvinist.

Then you are showing your utter ignorance of Calvinism.

 

[gb93433]

Then you are showing your utter ignorance of Calvinism.

I have read almost all of Calvin's works and do not find any command in scripture to follow him. To follow anyone else other than Christ is idolatry.

Heb 12:1,2, "Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

TCGreek: HP, read the OP and you'll see to charge leveled at Calvin.

HP: I have read it and can see no other logical conclusion than indeed he did in fact desire to see him murdered and that this murder was indeed done at Calvin's behest. Calvin stated, years before Servetus was murdered that if Servetus ever came to Geneva that if the weight of his authority meant anything that Servetus would not leave alive. One can only justly conclude when reading the facts surrounding the murder of Servetus, that it was done so at the behest of Calvin himself. Not only did those in power murder Servetus, but did so by a most cruel and heinous manner possible. From the green wood used to the wreath made for him covered in sulfur they all point to a most heinous murder of which Calvin nor any of his followers can justly eliminate the crucial role Calvin himself played in carrying it out.

 

[TCGreek]

I have read almost all of Calvin's works and do not find any command in scripture to follow him. To follow anyone else other than Christ is idolatry.

Heb 12:1,2, "Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

What does it mean to replace Christ with Calvin?