Is Calvinism a False Doctrine?

[DHK]

Why quote from Matthew Henry DHK ? He was a Calvinist , and we know that you think they hold to heretical ,false doctrines .You remind me of David Cloud who quotes favorably from Matthew Henry and other Calvinists ( not bothering to identify them as such though ) when it suits him -- but then lashes out on other occasions at Calvinists as monsters who teach perversions of the Word of God .

What is your point here.
I have said many times that I am not a Calvinist, so your post does not make sense to me.
I have also said many times that I am not an Arminian.
Thus I have no idea who you are trying to slander.
Desperate men in desperate times do desperate things--stooping to slander and insolent inference of indolent irreverent name-calling. Have you nothing better to do?

Who I remind you of is no consequence to me.
I believe the Bible. And I quote those whom I believe to be well versed on any given subject whether it be Dave Hunt, Dave Cloud, Matthew Henry, Albert Barnes, or the Pope.
It depends what the subject is.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: I have said many times that I am not a Calvinist, so your post does not make sense to me.
I have also said many times that I am not an Arminian.
Thus I have no idea who you are trying to slander.

HP: Possibly others might see you differently than what you see yourself. Take for instance the issue of free will. You seem, on one hand, to differ from the Calvinist. Help me see clearly the difference in your position with that of the Calvinist.

What does the free will you say exists entail? Exactly what can a sinner from birth choose of his own free will to do? Does the possibility exist to do something other than what he does, or can he only sin and that continually?

 

[DHK]

HP: Possibly others might see you differently than what you see yourself. Take for instance the issue of free will. You seem, on one hand, to differ from the Calvinist. Help me see clearly the difference in your position with that of the Calvinist.

What does the free will you say exists entail? Exactly what can a sinner from birth choose of his own free will to do? Does the possibility exist to do something other than what he does, or can he only sin and that continually?

Those that know me well, know what I believe. Those who know me simply via internet message boards may get a different idea.
I believe in free will; the Calvinist doesn't. That is one big difference. I believe in Scriptures such as John 3:18,36, and their literal interpretations.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Many years ago I believed on the Son, and the result was that He gave me everlasting life as he promised in the above verse. I believed. It was my faith. It was my decision. God did not force me to make this decision. He knew about it of course. But the decision was mine and mine alone. I chose Christ; and I chose not to reject him. That is not what Calvinism teaches.

 

[Rippon]

What is your point here.
I have said many times that I am not a Calvinist, so your post does not make sense to me.
I have also said many times that I am not an Arminian.

You have made it rather plain on multiple occasions that Calvinism teaches false doctrine . Of course you aren't a Calvinist . You must be having a "Duh" moment .

You claim not to be an Arminian , but your beliefs correspond more closely with historic Arminianism .

 

[Rippon]

Thus I have no idea who you are trying to slander.
Desperate men in desperate times do desperate things--stooping to slander and insolent inference of indolent irreverent name-calling. Have you nothing better to do?

I am slandering no one . But since you have claimed I have ,you have indeed become a slanderer .

What insolent ,indolent and irreverent name-calling do you refer to ? You sure pack a lot of completely unwarranted charges there .

It looks like you have become the desperate one . I hope you have a better day pretty soon .

 

[Rippon]

Many years ago I believed on the Son, and the result was that He gave me everlasting life as he promised in the above verse. I believed. It was my faith. It was my decision. God did not force me to make this decision. He knew about it of course. But the decision was mine and mine alone. I chose Christ; and I chose not to reject him. That is not what Calvinism teaches.

You sound like a rather independent-minded guy . You were able to secure salvation all by yourself . "My faith" ,"my decision" . "He knew about it [ your decision ] of course ." Well , well . You give God just a little -- too little credit .

For the umpteenth time no Calvinist has said that God "forces" . You insist on repeating that untruth no matter how many times you have been corrected on the matter .

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK, can you help me with a straight forward answer to this legitimate question?

What does the free will you speak of entail? Exactly what can a sinner from birth choose of his own free will to do? Does the possibility exist to do something other than what he does, or can he only sin and that continually?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Rippon: For the umpteenth time no Calvinist has said that God "forces" . You insist on repeating that untruth no matter how many times you have been corrected on the matter .

HP: Be fair now. If something is irresistible, force is indeed in play. The true blue Calvinist indeed does imply that God forces. They would claim that man has nothing to do with ones salvation, that either you were predestined to be saved or you were predestined to be damned. It is all the necessitated plan of God being carried out and man has nothing to do with it in reality. If that is not force, the Pope is not a Catholic.

 

[DHK]

Excuse me, while I go and get a cup of coffee. It is not God that is telling me to do this; but rather my own senses. I am choosing to do this out my own free will. God is sovereign, I know. But God is not in my coffee; sugar and milk are, and especially the caffeine. This is entirely my choice; my free will; not God's choice. He is not forcing me to do this. :laugh:

 

[DHK]

I am slandering no one . But since you have claimed I have ,you have indeed become a slanderer .

What insolent ,indolent and irreverent name-calling do you refer to ? You sure pack a lot of completely unwarranted charges there .

It looks like you have become the desperate one . I hope you have a better day pretty soon .

Post #238 looks like a desperate post coming from a desperate man. You took a lot of words to say nothing.
What was your intent. What good came out of it?

 

[DHK]

You sound like a rather independent-minded guy . You were able to secure salvation all by yourself . "My faith" ,"my decision" . "He knew about it [ your decision ] of course ." Well , well . You give God just a little -- too little credit .

For the umpteenth time no Calvinist has said that God "forces" . You insist on repeating that untruth no matter how many times you have been corrected on the matter .

The Calvinist view of Irresistable Grace teaches that man has no choice, no free will. He is like a robot. You hate that comparison.
Here is my original post (one of them)

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1199940&postcount=115

You have never successfully responed to it. There is a good reason for your non-responsiveness. You can't. You have no response to the Biblical teaching of John 3:18,36 that man has a free will to choose between good and evil, between receiving Christ and rejecting Christ. If you can respond and refute my post, then maybe we can get somewhere. Otherwise I will take it as heresy (or at least doctrine gone astray; unbiblical doctrine--for I am not supposed to use that "h" word). Fair enough?

 

[Rippon]

Even though I am considered a dreaded Calvinist I still hold that rejection of Jesus Christ is not the ONLY reason for sinners to be condemned to everlasting condemnation . Those who have never heard of Christ or have never been presented with the Gospel in any form will be sent to perdition for their sins . Romans 2:12 : "All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law , and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law ."

It is false that every single individual is bound to savingly believe in Christ unless everyone has been instructed to do so . It is untrue that multiplied millions who have never heard of the Lord are duty-bound to believe in Him . Many will be condemned only for sinning against the light of nature -- faith in Christ is not required of them .

On another thread DHK brought this subject up once more . So , I thought i would rejoin it here .

DHK has said that :"The rejection of Jesus Christ and his work on the cross is the only thing that will damn a person to hell." The quote from my earlier post #211 deals with his contention .

Also Romans 3:23 comes into play here :" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God ."

 

[webdog]

On another thread DHK brought this subject up once more . So , I thought i would rejoin it here .

DHK has said that :"The rejection of Jesus Christ and his work on the cross is the only thing that will damn a person to hell." The quote from my earlier post #211 deals with his contention .

Also Romans 3:23 comes into play here :" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God ."

What tense is "have sinned"?

 

[DHK]

On another thread DHK brought this subject up once more . So , I thought i would rejoin it here .

DHK has said that :"The rejection of Jesus Christ and his work on the cross is the only thing that will damn a person to hell." The quote from my earlier post #211 deals with his contention .

Also Romans 3:23 comes into play here :" For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God ."

I think it is better if you take up your cause with the Lord Jesus Christ:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Is he, or is he not telling the truth? Or, are you able to freely decide for yourself in giving an answer? :laugh:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: What tense is "have sinned"?

HP: I would say that it is sins that are past. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I do not believe Scripture represents any forgiveness outside of that tense.

 

[DHK]

HP: I would say that it is sins that are past. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I do not believe Scripture represents any forgiveness outside of that tense.

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
Your statement would infer that after you are saved you are on the same plane as God, equal with God, as holy as God, not having in any way ever fallen short of his holiness and glory since you have been saved. Is this true?

Before I was saved, I was a sinner.
After I was saved, I am sinner, saved by grace. I will never be "without sin" until I reach heaven. Even after salvation, "I have sinned." Cannot you say the same of yourself, or are you perfect and sinless like God?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: I will never be "without sin" until I reach heaven.

HP: Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Are you saying that the Lord is highly mistaken in suggesting such a thing possibkle in this world? Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Was the Apostle deluded?

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Was John serious when he stated that we should walk even as he walked?

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Are you suggesting that Peter was suggesting an impossibility?

The list could go on and on but I will allow you to respond. By the way, is it your experience and stated failures to live holy we are told to preach, or are we instructed to preach the Word of God?

 

[DHK]

HP: Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
If you had no sin, why would God say: come now and let us reason together..."
Does he promise after forgiveness or reconciliation: your sins...shall be white as snow," that you will never sin again? Hardly! You may have to keep on reasoning, like every day, to maintain your fellowship with Him. Salvation is a one time event. But maintaining one's fellowship is an everyday process of sanctification--confessing your sins to God--for that is what separates you from your God (1John 1:9)

Are you saying that the Lord is highly mistaken in suggesting such a thing possibkle in this world? Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

This verse is written to believers, not to unbelievers. Note that carefully.
Why would Paul teach Christians to deny ungodliness if there was no ungodliness to deny in the believer's life. Doesn't make much sense does it?
Why would he teach to live soberly if all believers are already living soberly?
Why would he teach to live righteously if all believers are already living righteously?
And why would he teach to live godly lives in this present worldy if believers were already doing that. If believers were without sin, this verse would not be needed at all, would it. But it is needed. Why? Because:

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Ro 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Was the Apostle deluded?

If the Romans were without sin, as you suggest, then why would he write that verse in the first place? You have taken the verse out of its context. Do you not remember what verse 23 says. It starts with a conjunction, as if it is part of the same verse.

"FOR the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
--They weren't entirely free from sin. It had to be a voluntary choice. Paul writes in 1Cor.15:31 "I die daily." He chose to die every day. It was a choice to be dead to sin. He crucified the flesh. If he didn't he knew there would be consequences. The wages of sin is death. Sin brings death. Sin has its consequences.

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Was John serious when he stated that we should walk even as he walked?

John was serious, are you? Are you serious in your understanding of Scripture?
vs.3--If we keep on keeping his commandments.
vs.4--and keeps not keeping his commandments.
vs.5--whoso keeps on keeping his word...the love of God is completed...
vs.6--he keeps on abiding...

The tenses of the actual Greek verbs are a good thing to study out.
Ye do err not knowing the Scriptures.

 

[webdog]

HP: I would say that it is sins that are past. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I do not believe Scripture represents any forgiveness outside of that tense.

While I don't agree, my point was that those who have the ability to sin have sinned. The "all" is qualified by ability, meaning the unborn and newborns are not part of the "all".

 

[gb93433]

HP: I would say that it is sins that are past. Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

I do not believe Scripture represents any forgiveness outside of that tense.

1 Jn 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

It is present tense.