Is Christmas Scriptural?

[wopik]

If Paul could say through the inspiration of the Spirit, that it is acceptable to eat meat sacrificed to idols, then I can't see how the same Spirit is going to have a problem with transforming a pagan holiday into a celebration of the incarnation.

One does not have anything to do with the other. With the meat sacrificed to idols, the focus was on the meat. Nothing about the meat was tainted. The meat was not pagan. There was nothing wrong with the meat. The only action with the meat was you eating it. On your idea of transforming pagan days, you are engaging in tainted rituals and ceremoneies. The focus is on the pagan practices and symbols.

Your linking of the two situations would work if Paul was saying that one could do something with the idol, which was evil and pagan, BUT IT WAS NOT. When you talk of pagan days somehow being made to pass for a Christian holiday, you are "touching the idol".

Further, you never see anyone in the New Testament Church doing anything similar. Did Paul ever change a pagan day into a Christian day? Did Paul ever use idols for something else? Did Christ ever advocate doing this?

I frankly am not going to do anything Jesus Christ did not advocate. It was He who said that I should live by every word of God (Matthew 4). Why should I live by the traditions of MAN?

 

[Pastor Larry]

I frankly am not going to do anything Jesus Christ did not advocate.

Where did he acvocate that you post on the baptist board? ... Or do you do things that he did not advocate, and just pick and choose which things those are?

If you don't want to celebrate the birth of Christ, then that is fine. But don't try to make these pagan assignations to it.

 

[Jim1999]

It was also Paul who turned around the presence of an idol, The Unknown god, to tell forth the truth of Jesus Christ.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Bartimaeus]

Be careful now Wopik, you are walking a thin line now. You just wished everybody on another thread (23 Nov) happy Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is celebrated as a Christian holiday in the US and I believe it has pagan origins. Better watch out! You may have crossed the line. Besides I want to know what the name of the church is that you attend and where it is located, and I just can't seem to get an answer from you. Well...whatdayouknowaboutthat!
Thanks ------Bart

 

[HankD]

The focus is on the pagan practices and symbols.

Wopik we have been down this path before. Our lives are inextricably woven with some of the threads of the legacy of our western culture and its paganism.

Someone mentioned the days of the week which are named after false gods: today is Thursday or Thor's day.

Exodus 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.

Open your wallet and look at the enGRAVENed images and symbols of idolatry on the money, especially the one dollar bill with the all seeing eye of Isis above the Great Pyramid of Egypt.

Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

If you are involved with either of these practices shoudn't the line you draw be consistent and include all 613 mitzvoth?


HankD

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by HankD:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Except that now the Winter Soltice is around Dec 22nd, not the 25th. Pagans celebrate it on the Winter Solstice date, not the 25th.

Reread the note Marcia, December 25th is the first day after the winter solstice in which the day is discernably longer than the solstice, thus allegorically, Pagans considered December 25th the re-birthday of the sun.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]Maybe I'm misuderstanding what you say here, but the Pagan day that is celebrated as Yule, or the Winter Soltice used to be the 25th, but is now usually the 21st or the 22nd. The date moves backward due to something called the precession of the equionox. The earth wobbles slightly on its axis, causing these dates to move backwards in the calendar. I don't think they celebrate the day after but the actual day of the solstice -- at least that's what they do now.

Check out the Pagan/Wiccan websites -- they now celebrate Yule/Winter Solstice on the 21st or 22nd. Dec 25 is no longer a Pagan holiday.

YULE (circa December 21)
(Winter Solstice, December 20-23 (varies according to the particular date on the standard calendar according to when the Solstice will occur astronomically)). Longest night of the year, the turning point when the days shall afterwards grow longer as winter begins its passage into the coming spring. It is, in the Goddess worship, the time when she gives forth again to the birth of the Divine Sun child who shall be both child and eventually lover and father of the next child in the cycle. Winter Solstice for pagans is a time of feasting and the exchanging of gifts and is the original Holiday that the Christian religions modified into their own Christmas . . .

 

[DHK]

The lighting of special fires and candles on December 24 and 25 originated in sun worship. The use of the Yule log probably originated with Druid sun worship. The log would not be allowed to burn up and would be used to start next year's fire (possibly a symbol of the sun's rebirth). "The Romans ornamented their temples and homes with green boughs and flowers for the Saturnalia, their season of merry making and the giving of presents; the Druids gathered mistletoe with great ceremony and hung it in their homes; the Saxons used holly, ivy and bay."

Worship and Christmas

 

[AZfiddler_Oct1996]

You know if the 25th is the day people have set as jesus' birth day, why not make it that and give gifts only to him on that day? Thats what the wise men did. fiddlers bro.

 

[mioque]

"Thanksgiving is celebrated as a Christian holiday in the US and I believe it has pagan origins."
"
That's a bit of a stretch, Thanksgiving is a purely American holiday that is possibly somewhat inspired by earlier harvest festival traditions. I think the Lutheran tradition of praying and giving thanks for the harvest was probably more of an influence than anything pagan.

 

[mioque]

The whole Christmas is pagan thing became an issue in my church halfway through the 90's, prior to that it seems to have been overlooked.
In the end it was decided to keep celebrating it. Mostly because in the end nobody liked the alternatives. Either picking some other date for it, or simply ignoring the birthday of Jezus* altogether.
Mind you, in our case all celebrating Christmas means is some 'theme' sermons, an extra churchservice, a nativity scene and appropriate biscuits in the coffee room and probably a church outing or 2 to a Christmas themed exhibition/concert. On your side of the pond, you've got that whole secular mythology around that overweight winterspirit in that Coca Cola coloured suit.
Our version of saint Nicolas shows up 20 days earlier and is much more authentic (not to mention more Christian) than his US counterpart.

*Yes 25 december is not His real birthday, but you know what I mean.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

This is an issure I don't really debate. Everyone make your own choices between yourselves and the Lord. I am "fully persuaded" in my own mind that Christ is honoured during our Christmas activities. We should allow each other that privilage.

 

[Bro. James]

Inextricably woven--

How true--without the Grace of God.

"Wherefore come out from among them, saith The Lord, and touch not the unclean thing."

Israel had many miserable years because of her spiritual adultery. Their unbelief in Jesus is still costing them plenty.

Dec. 25 came out as "The Feast of Saturn" in my encycloaepedia--a Roman "Holyday". The Romans were always "pagan" even after Constantine foisted a pagan cross on his banner and conquered many--including their souls.

Can anyone admit that the Vatican and the Holy See were born of the unholy marriage of the Pagan State of Rome and various apostate groups erroneously called "Christian"? "You shall know the Truth, and the Truth shall make you free."

The "Church" at Rome still has control over the souls of millions including many of those who have tried to "reform" her.

"Whatsoever is not of faith is sin". Why can we not admit that we have erred from the scripture? Why can we not repent and turn to the True and Living God? We like it this way. "There is a way that seems right to a man; but the end thereof is the way of death."

While the Virgin Birth is one of Jesus' most important credentials, nowhere in the scripture does He say to remember His birth.

He does, however, tell us to remember His Death--which is what the Scripture is about, what His Church is about, and what those in white robes are about.

Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing--they scatter the flock.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Still don't feel convicted to "repent and turn to the True and Living God."

I am certain that I already have turned to the True and Living God, and as far as I know I am in right relationship with him.

I am glad once again that I have only one Judge.

 

[HankD]

"Wherefore come out from among them, saith The Lord, and touch not the unclean thing."

OK Brother James, burn all your unclean greenback $$$ with the pagan and idolatrous symbols enGRAVENed images all over them and then I will believe your sincerity.

HankD

 

[gb93433]

There are many in the world who would like to change the name from Christimas to somethuing else. If they had their way, they would take away the focus of an annual reminder of Christ and his birth.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

For Christmas, I will cut a nice tree, and put it up and decorate it. It will be a reminder of the birth of the Savior, as well as many wonderful past Christmases. Other decorations and traditions will be a constant reminder of Jesus' birth.

You can go through the motions and miss it all, of course. Don't do that.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by wopik:


I frankly am not going to do anything Jesus Christ did not advocate.

Then don't drive a car, flush a tiolet, turn on the faucet to get runnning water. Don't buy gas because most of it comes from Muslim countries. Don't read the newspaper, watch TV or listen to the radio. Only read a scroll. Don't read the NT. Don't turn on the heater in the winter and air conditioner in the summer. Don't eat cookies. Don't put your food in a refrigerator or freezer. Walk everywhere you go. Don't ever use a gun. Speak out against the military going to war and using bombs and jets. Don't ever fly anywhere. Don't live in the United States. Don't ride a bicycle. Don't ever use a computer. Don't use a calculator. Don't play an organ or piano. Don't use electricity. Don't use a pencil or pen. Don't go to church.

 

[Bro. James]

Inextricably woven--

"In vain they do worship--teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Shooting the messenger does not change the message.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

That's me to a "T" - a vain worshipper .

 

[mioque]

James
"The "Church" at Rome still has control over the souls of millions including many of those who have tried to "reform" her."
"
1 billion+ souls, don't downplay the reach of your foe James.