Is Divorce a Sin?

[USN2Pulpit]

Originally posted by christine:
Are you saying that is someone (offender) commits adultry, then the other (victim) is somehow the cause or at fault for this?

Pull back on the throttle! I'm not saying that! I meant "generally," but that doesn't mean "always."

But since you raised the question, do you think it's a sin for one marriage partner to withold themselves (sexually) from the other, and in doing so invite temptation into the world of their spouse? **This may be a question for a different thread - don't want to drive this one off topic.**

I ask this because I'm counseling with someone right now who's in that position. Enduring heavy temptations while his wife has (for several years now, with few exceptions) completely witheld herself.

Let me state this plainly, so my position can be known. Even with the above circumstance, it is still plainly sinful for someone to cheat on their spouse.

(Please don't flame me!)

 

[Thankful]

Oh, I couldn't answer the poll, because I don't there is a yes or no answer to this question.

 

[Thankful]

But since you raised the question, do you think it's a sin for one marriage partner to withold themselves (sexually) from the other, and in doing so invite temptation into the world of their spouse? **This may be a question for a different thread - don't want to drive this one off topic.**

You might want to start another topic. Yes, I would think it is a sin. I am sure you have asked the question: Why?

 

[dianetavegia]

Christine said:

Proverbs 2:17, this doesn't even remotely have a reference to what you have posted. Maybe you got the wrong chapter or something?
Isaiah 54:4,6, this talks about taking care of a widow.

Proverbs 2:17 speaks of the woman who entices a man away from his wife. She leaves her husband of her youth and chases after other men.

Prov. 2:16 To deliver you from the immoral woman, From the seductress who flatters with her words, 17 Who forsakes the companion of her youth, And forgets the covenant of her God. 18 For her house leads down to death, And her paths to the dead; 19 None who go to her return, Nor do they regain the paths of life--

Not a WIDOW... but a TRUE Widow who must be the wife of ONE man! Several scriptures point to the church helping widows who are over 60, the wife of ONE man... not divorced!

When I give scripture about a subject, I try to give EVERY scripture that remotely mentions that subject so as to give ALL sides of the issue. I don't want to just choose the verses that clearly support MY side of an issue.


Diane

 

[christine]

USN2, I'm smiling right now, so relax.
I'm not sure they will let us discuss this, but here goes.
I don't think that witholding sex, is a reason to cheat. That could even go as far as, he want 5 X per week, she wants 1. Would that be cause then?
I think that if any partner (generally believed to be the woman) holds out, then there were already problems in the marriage.
There are many reasons that one may not want to be intimate:
1. Physical problem / discomfort / pain.
2. Lack of intimacy outside the bdrm.
3. Abuse verbal or physical.
4. Lack of respect from that individual.
5. Feeling that they are giving 100% while the other gives little or nothing.
6. Weight gain, or something which would affect the attraction.
7. Or maybe the person's partner is just a rude oaf!
Let me give a example:
The husband say's, "I have a fifty in my pocket, if you let me have some, you can have it." he actually thinks this is funny, a joke.
How long do you think that's gonna take to leave someones mind?
Back to the subject: If there is adultry, then generally there were already problems in the marriage.
Christine

 

[Tonya R]

Diane,
You said God hates divorce, but Deuteronomy 24 shows God being the author of divorce.
Furthermore, Malachi 2:16 says "16 For I hate putting away, saith Jehovah, " We have been taught to read that it says God Hates Divorce.
And the Latin Vulgate read like this:
2:15 Did not one make her, and she is the residue of his spirit? And what doth one seek, but the seed of God? Keep then your spirit, and despise not the wife of thy youth.

2:16 When thou shalt hate her put her away, saith the Lord, the God of Israel: but iniquity shalt cover his garment, saith the Lord of hosts, keep your spirit, and despise not.

 

[dianetavegia]

Let me guess, Tonya. Are you a divorced lady?

Put away means divorce. The scripture where Joseph could have divorced Mary uses that wording. Put her away privately....

(If we want to really get deep into study, a non-virgin was not marriageable. David's daughter was not marriageable after being raped by her half brother.)

Diane

 

[Tonya R]

I'm divorced but that is beside the point. Sort of like an ad hominem, eh?

I'm not saying that "put away" did not mean divorce. But there were two types of divorce. When an Israelite man and woman were married, it was by covenant and that could only be broken by a putting away plus a bill of divorce which would prevent the man from remarrying her if she married again to someone else.
Now putting away can mean divorce, but not exactly the same as a putting away and a bill of divorce.
Joseph thought that fornication was involved in his marriage to Mary. Since a fraud was suspected, she was not entitled to a bill of divorce. No lawful marriage had been contracted.
Hence all he had to do was put her away. Same as in the book of Ezra when they were commanded to put away their Canaanite (sp?) wives. No bill of divorce mentioned there either.

Respectfully,
Tonya

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Originally posted by christine:
USN2, I'm smiling right now, so relax.

That's a relief...I hate conflict! Don't be surprised at my saying that we seem to be in agreement so far!

Perhaps I'll start a thread on the question from my earlier post.

 

[christine]

Sorry, I edited this but must have took too long. Please skip to the second posting.
Christine

 

[christine]

Diane, I don't think that was fair. Yes, some of us are divorced, but it doesn't affect our ability to read. Many are here to learn and you should not have made that remark to her.
Your assumption that this would alter or bias our interpretation is offensive.
I have done many things wrong in my life, but God will judge me and only he has that right.
I'm not mad, don't take it this way, just setting you straight.
Christine

 

[latterrain77]

Hi Christine. Thank you for your follow up. It is the Deut. 24: 1-4 text that Jesus refers to when speaking about fornication in Matt. 5: 32. Mark 10: 2-12 confirms. Even IF this verse allowed divorce for fornication (and I don't think it does) it would only be permissible for the man to divorce the wife, not the other way around (Matt. 19: 3-11).

When a spouse commits fornication, it is an incredibly painful event for the aggrieved spouse. Nevertheless, forgiveness is the more proper Christian response rather than running to court for a divorce (Matt. 6: 14-15, Mark 11: 26).

Romans 7: 1-4 indicates that there cannot be divorce for ANY reason. 1 Cor. 7: 10-11 confirms. Matt. 5: 32 introduces the extremely important and awful situation whereby the divorced wife is guilty of committing adultery even though her own actions did not contribute to the adultery! An unusual idea, but one that is plainly evident in the text. Furthermore, Matt. 19: 6 inidicates that NO MAN may seperate a marriage at ANY time or for ANY reason.

The Bible is that intent on illustrating how serious a matter divorce is and why it must be avoided. Marriage is forever. Accordingly, those human beings who contribute to the course of a divorce through it's conclusion are violating the Bible. GOD said he hates divorce (Mal. 2: 16).

Let's assume for argument's sake that one could get a divorce as a result of fornication. What then? Remarriage would be absolutely out of the question (Mark 10:11-12). Only the death of one of the spouses breaks the marriage (Rom. 7: 1-3). Divorce, even if it were permissible (which it's not) would only mean the remainder of one's life in the single state.

Divorce would provide a "legal" opportunity for the other spouse to remarry someone else (although adulterously). Once that happens, there is NO CHANCE of reconciliation between the original husband and wife. By NOT divorcing, these things are thwarted.

Now, by contrast, let's assume the aggrieved spouse "forgives" the fornicating one. The marriage remains intact, the other spouse may truly repent, the passing of time may change the circumstances of the affair that led to the fornication, the fornicating spouse would be "legally" prevented from marrying another while the adulterous affair is still underway (bigamy laws would prevent that) and the family integrity is kept whole (even if bruised). There is more that I can say on the topic but I trust this has answered your question. Thanks! latterrain77

 

[dianetavegia]

Christine, you've blown my mind. I have no idea what you are refering to!

Diane, I don't think that was fair. Yes, some of us are divorced, but it doesn't affect our ability to read. Many are here to learn and you should not have made that remark to her.
Your assumption that this would alter or bias our interpretation is offensive.

I never said anyone could not read. I read the words putting away differently from the other lady. And being divorced DOES alter your way of looking at divorce just as my choosing to forgive instead of divorce changes mine. I will defend my decision to not divorce just as you will defend your decision to divorce because we both feel strongly about our decisions. Period! I felt a strongness in that lady's view that led me to believe she was defending divorce from her own experience. And I was defending what I believe scripture says. I will never NEVER water down what I believe scripture says about an issue to make people 'like me'. That would be a sin!

I am completely confused by what you might have read that you think was out of line. I certainly apologize if it seemed I was implying she could not read! On the contrary..... she was using scripture but interpreting it differently from my interpretation.

Diane

 

[Tonya R]

Latterain77,
You are throwing alot of verses at us, all at one time. How about we go over each and every verse one by one like I did with Malachi 2:16?

Sincerely,
Tonya Rudd

 

[Frogman]

3  ¶The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5  And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6  Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7  They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8  He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9  And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

This topic, unfortunately, is not so cut and dried. But Biblically I believe that I agree with Latterain. Though Moses gave to Israel the 'opportunity' to put away their wives, note that this was never the intention of God. Then comes the question, did Moses rebel against the will of God in writing this? Maybe, but note again the scripture says that Moses did this because of the hardness of the heart. This shows the unwillingness of the men or man to pursue as Latterain has shown from scripture a reconciliation.

Next, Jesus provides the only Biblical grounds for divorce, 'fornication', so the question becomes one of a definition of what is 'fornication'?

I know some preachers who maintain it is when someone engages in sexual relations prior to marriage, but refuse to acknowledge this or denies it to the future partner. Then after the marriage occurs when it is found to be true, the partner lied to has the Biblical grounds to seek divorce. They say however that an extra-marital affair does not fall into this category.

I cannot say that I fully agree with this position. All that I can say is that I do not believe divorce is ever intended to occur by God. Much confusion is found surrounding this teaching because so many are divorced and no one wishes to offend anybody, let alone the whole family who are in the same church where it may occur.

Yet I do not believe that God is so unconcerned with the ease of suing and being granted divorce as we are. And there are cases, rare as they may be, where a spouse may have been forced by a third party to engage in an extra-marital affair. This would not ease the pain felt by the aggrieved spouse, but it does and can happen.

Just thought I would throw my two cents worth in.

God Bless.
bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[christine]

Diane, What I was referring to was your assumption that a divorced person would try to justify or twist the interpretation of the bible, to fit their needs.
I have lied, swore, hated and alot of other things, but that does not change my perspective on it being sin.
A sin sometimes cannot be changed or reversed, but if acknowledged, it can be forgiven.
Some sins just hang around forever.
Would it be more of a sin to commit adultry, or to have a baby from an adultrous relationship?
See what I mean? Some sin shows and other people can hide and are never revealed.
I believe divorce because of adultry is acceptable, because that's what I was taught, not because I am divorced. I am divorced because I was taught that that was permitted if their was adultry. This is why I am taking the time to find out what the bible says.
I have lived my life according to right and wrong and when I divorced I "thought" it was right.
Christine

 

[donnA]

God hates it, Jesus said it was becasue of a hard heart. Bible is the final authority, no other opinion is more authorative.

 

[christine]

Frogman, I agree that this mirky, and because there are so many different references to it, it is confusing. That is why we are discussing it? I don't want to agrue, I'm trying to learn.
Christine

 

[Frogman]

I understand Christine the reason for your discussion. The way I see it though is that it is possible for unbelievers to look at the writing of Moses and argue that divorce is Biblical, then when shown the words of Christ they can claim the Bible is contradictory. Never noticing, or conveniently overlooking the fact that Moses did give the writing of divorce because of the hardness of the hearts of men. This still would have been by inspiration of the Spirit. otherwise, we have found one place in scripture where their is no inspiration other than Moses himself adding an opinion, once this is conceded satan will be unstopable in his efforts to deny the inspiration of the whole counsel of God.

Divorce was given for one reason, men rejected the Grace of God; Christ said that from the beginning this was not the purpose of God; yet Moses did give this to Israel.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Divorce is a sin for the one who initiates it. Always.

I initiated mine. My wife left me for another person and broke the marital covanent. I filed two years later. My doing so was not sin.