Is Divorce a Sin?

[2Timothy4:1-5]

quoted by AdoptedDaughter...

2Timothy4:1-5,

Divorce other than fornication is a sin. If you remarry after a divorce that wasn't due to fornication, you commit adultery. And the person who caused the divorce makes the spouse commit adultery. It's right there in scripture, my dear brother.

Then I guess I'll just have to ask God for His forgiveness. 1 John 1:9 seems to come to mind, so does Psalm 103:12

Kenneth

 

[christine]

I'm back, promised my daughter to take her to Walmart (apparently the ONLY pastime here in podunk, N.C.).

There is a question that has been asked about 3-4 different ways, but not yet been answered.

Say that I concede that my divorce and re-marriage was sin. How would I correct this sin?
How would I avoid perpetuating that sin?
Divorce is sin, do I divorce? If the sin is continuous because of remarriage, and divorce is a sin, how would you correct it?

It was stated that sin is forgiven, so is the problem that I am not acknowledging this sin and thereby continuing in it?
I am being sincere here, I want to know this.
Christine

 

[latterrain77]

Hi Johnv. You said; So far, I have yet to hear anyone show me why my divorce was a sin.

It is no longer a sin if its been forgiven. In your case Johnv I'm confident it has been forgiven because you are a superb Christian and person.

Hosea 3: 1-3 and the remainder of the book of Hosea are insightful. Thanks! latterrain77

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by 2Timothy4:1-5:
quoted by AdoptedDaughter...

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> 2Timothy4:1-5,

Divorce other than fornication is a sin. If you remarry after a divorce that wasn't due to fornication, you commit adultery. And the person who caused the divorce makes the spouse commit adultery. It's right there in scripture, my dear brother.

Then I guess I'll just have to ask God for His forgiveness. 1 John 1:9 seems to come to mind, so does Psalm 103:12

Kenneth </font>[/QUOTE]It's your life, however, sinning with the knowledge of that sin is much worse than sinning in ignorance.

 

[RomOne16]

Ya know, there are times on this board when I feel totally invisible.

Did I post a question, or was it just my imagination?

Anyone else see my question over on page 5?

Thanks.

 

[christine]

Actually I was trying to get an answer both of our questions. I think we were misinterpreted and they all think we are being smart or combative.
I really do not want to argue, I am seeking answers to questions.
How does a remarried (sinner), stop the perpetuation of a sin?
And would state of being remarriage be considered as grounds for rejection from church membership and acceptance?
Is the problem that, the sinner must repent and think something is wrong, before he/she is considered to have stop sinning?
Very curious
Christine

 

[Johnv]

You only believe it to not be a sin. You have never offered any exegetically sound position that says it isn't.
Hmmm, my wife leaves me, and begins living with another person. I give her two years to return to her marriage, which she refuses to do. Additionally, she never repented of her adulterous behavior and has said she plans on marrying the man she's living with. The marriage covanent we entered into was no longer in existence. Now let's look at my options: Condone her sinful actions, which would make me an accessory to sin, or file for divorce.

Jesus made it crystal clear in Matthew 19 that those who divorce do so because of a hard heart. That is a sin.
So, in my position, who divorced whom? I legally filed for divorce, but my wife abandoned and broke the marital covanent. Covanentally, she divorced me. I was the innocent party. Well, me and the kids.

 

[Johnv]

It is no longer a sin if its been forgiven. In your case Johnv I'm confident it has been forgiven because you are a superb Christian and person.
Thanks, I appreciate that. I've indeed asked God to forgive me if my actions were wrong. What's most disheartening is that my exwife to this day wears her adultery on her sleeve, quite proud of the fact that she "got away with it". She seriousl believes that her actions were not sinful, and that God "would have approved". I will forgive her if she asks me to, but she hasn't asked me (although, in my heart, I've already forgiven her).

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Johnv:
1. Hmmm, my wife leaves me, and begins living with another person. I give her two years to return to her marriage, which she refuses to do. Additionally, she never repented of her adulterous behavior and has said she plans on marrying the man she's living with.

2. The marriage covanent we entered into was no longer in existence.

3. Now let's look at my options: Condone her sinful actions, which would make me an accessory to sin, or file for divorce.

4. So, in my position, who divorced whom? I legally filed for divorce, but my wife abandoned and broke the marital covanent. Covanentally, she divorced me. I was the innocent party. Well, me and the kids.

1. Johnv, you have just proved my point. You offer NO scripture at all, let alone sound exposition of it for your position. What you have done is tried to steer away from the Scripture and give a story to seek sympathy. I hate divorce. I hate hearing stories of break ups. I never delight inwardly over the issue. It is always painful. However, that does not give me the right to read my pain into the Scriptures.

2. The marriage covenant does not rise and fall on sex. If sex was the issue of the covenant, then every prostitute would be married as many times as... Further, the idea of premarital sex would be laughable because the first act of sex would actually join the two in marital relationship. Therefore, we would be wrong to teach against premarital sex, we should just be encouraging the two youngsters to stay committed to each other.

3. You have given yourself only two options. According to you, you either agree with her sins, or divorce her. Is it not possible that other options are available. I am not going to argue with you. I do believe though that you acted in this situation without considering all options (not just the ones you came up with).

4. Finally, answer me this: a) where does Scripture talk about the "innocent" party, and b) did you not promise "for better or for worse"? This drags all of those intangibles into the discussion that those of your position NEVER deal with.

 

[Headcoveredlady]

Originally posted by latterrain77:

It is no longer a sin if its been forgiven. In your case Johnv I'm confident it has been forgiven because you are a superb Christian and person.

I thought we were only forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, .

 

[Johnv]

You offer NO scripture at all, let alone sound exposition of it for your position. What you have done is tried to steer away from the Scripture and give a story to seek sympathy.
Matt 5:31,32 makes it clear that Jesus allows divorce especially in the case of adultery: ...anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness...

I hate divorce. I hate hearing stories of break ups. I never delight inwardly over the issue. It is always painful. However, that does not give me the right to read my pain into the Scriptures.
Which I have not done. I offerred my testimony as an example of a divorce that was scripturally acceptible.

The marriage covenant does not rise and fall on sex.
No, but sex outside of marriage breaks the marriage covanent.

Is it not possible that other options are available.
Not without accepting her sin of adultery.

did you not promise "for better or for worse"?
Yes. I made a commitment to enter into the covanent of marriage for better or worse. Her adultery broke that covanent, and it no longer existed. I divorced because there was nothing left that I was able to commit to for better or worse.

Divorce itself is not disallowed. For there are legitimate reasons for divorce. Even God got divorced: Jer 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.

It's already been pointed out, so I won't bother repeating everything. But divorce is biblically allowable in two cases: adultery, and abandonment.

 

[Charlesga]

Adopted Daughter stated:

Divorce other than fornication is a sin. If you remarry after a divorce that wasn't due to fornication, you commit adultery. And the person who caused the divorce makes the spouse commit adultery. It's right there in scripture, my dear brother.

2Timothy stated:

Then I guess I'll just have to ask Go guess I'll just have to ask Go guess I'll just have to ask God for His forgiveness. 1 John 1:9 seems to come to mind, so does Psalm 103:12

Adopted Daughter stated:

Kenneth It's your life, however, sinning with the knowledge of that sin is much worse than sinning in ignorance.

Hmmm...he (or she) who has no sin cast the first stone seems to come to my mind here.

2Timothy: rest in the knowledge of the grace of Christ. May God bless you and your future bride.

[ May 22, 2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Charlesga ]

 

[latterrain77]

Hi headcoveredlady. You said; I thought we were only forgiven through the shed blood of Jesus Christ,

Yes, we are saved by grace (Eph. 2: 8). Since Johnv is a true Christian, he (like all true believers) ARE the beneficiaries of Christ's work at the Cross. Thanks! latterrain77

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Johnv:
1. Matt 5:31,32 makes it clear that Jesus allows divorce especially in the case of adultery: ...anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness...

2. Which I have not done. I offerred my testimony as an example of a divorce that was scripturally acceptible.

3. No, but sex outside of marriage breaks the marriage covanent.

4. Not without accepting her sin of adultery.

5. Yes. I made a commitment to enter into the covanent of marriage for better or worse. Her adultery broke that covanent, and it no longer existed. I divorced because there was nothing left that I was able to commit to for better or worse.

6. Divorce itself is not disallowed. For there are legitimate reasons for divorce. Even God got divorced: Jer 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries.

1. John, Jesus was interpreting the Law. "Marital unfaithfulness" is an invention on the part of NIV translators. It is pornea. It is sexual immorality. Now, what is listed as sexual immorality under the Law? Lev. 18 and 19 deal with this very issue. This is what would constitute a biblical divorce.

2. You did offer your testimony. I asked for Scripture though. Matthew 5 and 19 along with Mark 10, Luke 16, Romans 7, and 1 Cor. 7 are on my side of this discussion along with a whole host of theological and practical issues such as forgiveness, suffering for righteousness sake, being a "eunuch for the kingdom", etc. But I won't get into that right now.

3. You just introduced a contradiction. You agreed that sex does not determine the marital covenant and then said that it breaks it. Which is it. If you choose the latter, you will have to deal with the issues that I briefly mentioned.

4. Again, you are choosing to limit the options because (I believe) it would indict you.

5. So, you admit you conditionally loved your wife. This raises a whole host of other problems that we cannot get into right now.

6. This is your belief that you have not supported with properly exegeted passages. God is also said to have been married to Judah and Israel. Are you going to commit bigomy now?

 

[Daniel David]

Originally posted by Charlesga:
Adopted daughter, back off 2Timothy...he may have made a mistake, but he is fully forgiven.

Nice use of debate skills there. This is one for the archives. It is right up there with a threat to quit (which I have seen no less than 3 times). Classic stuff there.

 

[Charlesga]

Daniel David,

I edited my post. I agree that comment was rather tasteless. Just trying to give someone a little support.

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by Charlesga:
Adopted Daughter stated:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Divorce other than fornication is a sin. If you remarry after a divorce that wasn't due to fornication, you commit adultery. And the person who caused the divorce makes the spouse commit adultery. It's right there in scripture, my dear brother.

2Timothy stated:

Then I guess I'll just have to ask Go guess I'll just have to ask Go guess I'll just have to ask God for His forgiveness. 1 John 1:9 seems to come to mind, so does Psalm 103:12

Adopted Daughter stated:

Kenneth It's your life, however, sinning with the knowledge of that sin is much worse than sinning in ignorance.

Hmmm...he (or she) who has no sin cast the first stone seems to come to my mind here.

2Timothy: rest in the knowledge of the grace of Christ. May God bless you and your future bride. </font>[/QUOTE]This is the cold hard truth,

John 19

11Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

and

1 Timothy 1:13
Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

take it or leave it...

 

[Johnv]

John, Jesus was interpreting the Law. "Marital unfaithfulness" is an invention on the part of NIV translators. It is pornea. It is sexual immorality. Now, what is listed as sexual immorality under the Law? Lev. 18 and 19 deal with this very issue. This is what would constitute a biblical divorce.
You forgot Exodus 20: Thou shalt not commit adultery. Adultery is a form of fornication, and constitutes sexual immorality. Divorce is allowable according to Jesus, in cases of sexual immorality.

Matthew 5 and 19 along with Mark 10, Luke 16, Romans 7, and 1 Cor. 7
You're skirting the issue. Jesus in his own words says that divorce is permissable in cases of adultery.

You just introduced a contradiction. You agreed that sex does not determine the marital covenant and then said that it breaks it. Which is it. If you choose the latter, you will have to deal with the issues that I briefly mentioned.
Sex alone does not make a marital covenant. Sex is not marriage. Otherwise, the Bible would not stress that sex remain within a marriage. OTOH, sex is to remain within the marital covanent. Being true to your spouse sexually is an integral part of the marital covenant. Sex outside of marriage violates the marical covenant. I can't believe you're having a difficult time grasping that.

Again, you are choosing to limit the options because (I believe) it would indict you.
You think I limit it to sex? Let's see:
My wife chose to have sex with another man.
My wife chose to leave her husband and family.
My wife chose to take up residence with another man.
My wife chose to file for legal separation.
My wife chose to remove my name from my stepdaughter's legal paperwork and place another man's name in my place.
My wife chose to enter into financial commitments with another man.
My wife chose to do all these things, after a previous incident of adultery years prior.

It's clear that, while I was the one who filed for divorce, I was the one who was "put away" as Jesus says.

So, you admit you conditionally loved your wife. This raises a whole host of other problems that we cannot get into right now.
I still love (agape) her. I also love (agape) you and the people on this board. I'm not sure what you're getting at. If she called me right now and needed help from me I would give it without question. But marital love is not unconditional. It's conditional upon the marital covenant.

This is your belief that you have not supported with properly exegeted passages.
I guess the specific words of Jesus weren't enough.

God is also said to have been married to Judah and Israel. Are you going to commit bigomy now?
According to you, if I marry again, that's exactly what I'll be doing.

 

[Johnv]

Still, another questions remains, as was brought up. Assuming I sinned by divorcing, and I've asked for forgiveness, am I not therefore forgiven?

 

[christine]

Hey, that sounds familiar, I asked that at least 4 pages ago, never got an answer.
I did not get an answer to a few things.
Is everyone going to keep us in suspense?

Christine