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Is Divorce the Unforgivable Sin?
- Thread starter righteousdude2
- Start date
That is idealistic thinking. Peter cut off a man's ear. Moses killed a man. David had a husband killed.
The righteous fall seven times and rise again.
I cannot begin to tell you how many couples I have counseled where abuse is a problem.
convicted1
Guest
None of these had the permenant indwelling of the Holy Ghost when they did what they did. But that's another topic for another thread, reckon.....
Doesn't the Holy Spirit indwell the believer from the point of belief? We have two alligators wanting our food. So the question is which alligator are we going to feed and which one will we starve until it dies? Just because Holy Spirit indwells the believer does not mean the believer will never sin such as those who teach "sinless perfection" may teach. One would not have to go past one lie to another lie and find the person either hallucinating or in fantasy land.
Romans 7:20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
1 Cor 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."
convicted1
Guest
Brother, we need to get back to the OP. I am sorry for the rabbit trail.
If a man is really good to his wife, and she then decides she has her life to live(partying, drinking, different men, etc.), then it's not his fault, neither his sin to bear.
A lot of times people get married early in their life(unplanned pregnancy), and then they think of all the "fun" they have missed out on. In time, that temptation takes over, and they want out of their marriage. If one leaves w/o any coercion from the other, it's not their fault.
I Agree, TOO.....
...my ex is not one hundred percent at fault. It took two to make the marriage, and it took two to end it. However, I would like to point out that I did everything, spiritually and humanly possible to make it work, including two different attempts at counseling; and resigning from the ministry.
The first counseling session ended as my wife claimed the counselor was flirting with me.
We got our health plan to give us a male counselor and tried again. This one ended when my wife, meeting alone with the counselor, for one-on-one sessions, claimed that he was taking my side.
She refused pastoral counseling, because she said they'd all be on my side.
During the last four years (of our rugged ten) she ran up more than 7 thousand dollars in loans, which allowed here to go stay for weeks at a time with her parents in Texas. She left me with the kids during those month-long trips (to help her get her head on straight), and while she was gone, her employer, Bank of America, was getting upset with her more frequent leave of absences.
I racked my brain and heart in what to do to make things work, and it wasn't until after the divorce that members of the church, I was an associate pastor at (and asked to leave with the divorce) would run into me in the stores and tell me that they had seen her at local night clubs with here best friend (a women from work) and men hanging all over her!
The night clubs were those attached to the restaurants, so it wasn't like the church folks were doing anything bad, other than seeing her while they waited in for a table to open up.
I often wish they'd have told me then, but I know they meant well.
Still, I guess I could have done some things differently, and maybe stayed out of the ministry like she wanted. I tried it for a little more than a year, but things never changed so I took an associate pastor job, running a school and the church youth group. That was the final nail in the coffin of our marriage.
As for the physical abuse thing. I could never, in good conscience, tell a woman to stay in a marriage where she was being abused, or her kids were being abused, especially after seeing the bruises on the woman I counseled.
I'd always help them find options, and escape from further abuse. If that was wrong, the blood of that marriage was on my hands, but it was better than having the blood of a woman killed by an abusive husband on my heart. My conscious would not allow me to tell them things would be better if they remained and continued to be a punching bag for their husband.
BTW - Between my failed marriage and my 32 year marriage, I had a very brief marriage to a woman who seemed to be a believer. However, several months into our marriage, she started beating up on me. She attacked me at work, and several employees had to pull her off me, and call the cops. I was too embarrassed to file charges. She threatened to kill me one night, and I left and never looked back. After our court hearing for divorce, she attacked me again, outside the courthouse, in front of two friends (cops) that went with me to protect and support me at the hearing. They pulled her off, and they filed charges.
When I moved back to California, I noticed I was being followed by her, which I chalked up to imagination. However, one day, at a Christian book store, she came up and said hello, and told me she kept track of me for the last three years. Scary! Yes!
So, I know what it's like to come out of an emotionally abusive and physically abusive marriage, and I thank God for a solid marriage after two failed attempts at trying to find love.
...my ex is not one hundred percent at fault. It took two to make the marriage, and it took two to end it. However, I would like to point out that I did everything, spiritually and humanly possible to make it work, including two different attempts at counseling; and resigning from the ministry.
The first counseling session ended as my wife claimed the counselor was flirting with me.
We got our health plan to give us a male counselor and tried again. This one ended when my wife, meeting alone with the counselor, for one-on-one sessions, claimed that he was taking my side.
She refused pastoral counseling, because she said they'd all be on my side.
During the last four years (of our rugged ten) she ran up more than 7 thousand dollars in loans, which allowed here to go stay for weeks at a time with her parents in Texas. She left me with the kids during those month-long trips (to help her get her head on straight), and while she was gone, her employer, Bank of America, was getting upset with her more frequent leave of absences.
I racked my brain and heart in what to do to make things work, and it wasn't until after the divorce that members of the church, I was an associate pastor at (and asked to leave with the divorce) would run into me in the stores and tell me that they had seen her at local night clubs with here best friend (a women from work) and men hanging all over her!
The night clubs were those attached to the restaurants, so it wasn't like the church folks were doing anything bad, other than seeing her while they waited in for a table to open up.
I often wish they'd have told me then, but I know they meant well.
Still, I guess I could have done some things differently, and maybe stayed out of the ministry like she wanted. I tried it for a little more than a year, but things never changed so I took an associate pastor job, running a school and the church youth group. That was the final nail in the coffin of our marriage.
As for the physical abuse thing. I could never, in good conscience, tell a woman to stay in a marriage where she was being abused, or her kids were being abused, especially after seeing the bruises on the woman I counseled.
I'd always help them find options, and escape from further abuse. If that was wrong, the blood of that marriage was on my hands, but it was better than having the blood of a woman killed by an abusive husband on my heart. My conscious would not allow me to tell them things would be better if they remained and continued to be a punching bag for their husband.
BTW - Between my failed marriage and my 32 year marriage, I had a very brief marriage to a woman who seemed to be a believer. However, several months into our marriage, she started beating up on me. She attacked me at work, and several employees had to pull her off me, and call the cops. I was too embarrassed to file charges. She threatened to kill me one night, and I left and never looked back. After our court hearing for divorce, she attacked me again, outside the courthouse, in front of two friends (cops) that went with me to protect and support me at the hearing. They pulled her off, and they filed charges.
When I moved back to California, I noticed I was being followed by her, which I chalked up to imagination. However, one day, at a Christian book store, she came up and said hello, and told me she kept track of me for the last three years. Scary! Yes!
So, I know what it's like to come out of an emotionally abusive and physically abusive marriage, and I thank God for a solid marriage after two failed attempts at trying to find love.
Right, which is why I didn't say "always".
Of course not, where in the world does anyone find, in the bible, anything that says divorce, or any other sin, would bannish anyone from ever serving the Lord?
This is a misleading question.
I agree with your first statement, but where does the bible say he is free to remarry as long as it is with a believer.
God can use any person, no matter their past, if that person will follow. However, many say that if a person is forgiven then the rules God set up for offices of the church does not apply. Kinda like God was saying this is for them and not for you.
Remarrying after divorce while the wife is still living does disqualify men from the offices God set aside for those who are husbands of one wife. Yes, that includes polygamy and divorcée who remarries another while his wife is still alive. No matter the reason for divorce.
It does not matter how Godly or how long the present marriage has lasted, it is still a disqualification from these offices. Not a disqualification to serve the Lord. God has made it clear that He does not play the "flavor of the month or year or decade or this part of my life" game, when it comes to the offices of the church that He has set aside for certain qualifications.
convicted1
Guest
First my answer to that question is not in the pll so it isn't plain and simple. Can a divorced person serv God having been divorced, yes. Is it unforgiveable yes according to Christ there is only one unpardonable sin that is Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Christ said all manner which to me all types of sin which includes divorce will be forgiven.
Can God use them yes as Sunday School teacher as a witness out in the world.
Can they pastor to me it depends on the circumstances of the divorce. Was he saved or lost when divorced? Was he the guilty party in adultry? Was his ex a believer or none believer? The questions could go on and on.
We have to look at each individuals circumstance before we disqualify.
The husband of one wife has always been used to disqualify. So what makes a marriage?
In mans eyes going before a minister or judge and saying words to make a bond. Some states allow common law for those who co-habit and sshe takes on his name after 6 months is considered his wife and that bond is must be broken by a divorce.
What does God say?
Issac took Rabekah into his mothers tent and knew his wife. Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Issac and Rebekah had no formal ceremony yet she became his wife when he knew her.
Paul said a man that knows a harlot becomes one flesh with her they become one body that constitutes a marriage.
So if you want to take the husband of one wife literally as only one there are many men filling pulpits today who had pre-marital relations you must exclude for they are in God's eyes married to that woman.
God hates divorce He intended for a man and woman to be married all their lives without the bond broken, but because sin entered the world so came divorce.
Is it forgiveable yes, can a man serve as a pastor if divorced depending on the circumstances surrounding it.
The husband of one wife in the original means a one woman man that he must be dedicated to the one woman he is with. Paul was addressing a culture issue of the time, poligamy multiple wives for a man.
So what constitutes a marriage in our eyes? Living together, dedicated to each other and true to that one woman? IF so how do you see a divorced man as still married to that woman. If not then you must question the man about pre-marital as well as extra-marital relations because that according to scripture constitutes a marriage marriage the act makes one body, one flesh.
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righteousdude2, it would appear to me that you're still "afflicted" by the turn of events of over 35 years ago. I have often pondered things in my past. Things I said that I should not have said. Attitudes that I had. Times when I should have been friendly, but wasn't. Times I should have helped, but didn't, and the list is endless. A multitude of things I wish I could go back and change..., but I can't. It's very sad at times.
Satan is very good at keeping these past situations on the front burner in all of our minds. Attempting to heap guilt upon guilt. Sadness upon sadness. Frustration upon frustration. Then, those who have never walked in another's shoes, those arm chair quarterbacks, begin to judge while relying upon the Scriptures to justify their opinion and position. It's judging! They make reference to their "opinion" but their "opinion" are the result of their judging.
What you did and how you acted and how you responded way back then is what happened. End of subject! You can't change a thing and as such, I am of the opinion that it is a "sin" to even allow yourself to become burdened down with what you have no control over. Accordingly, I "sin" quite often in this arena.
Consider the thief on the cross. A deathbed salvation, if you will, all the while many believers will jump up emphatically denying the effectiveness of, or the sincerity of such a plea just minutes or hours away from death. This thief did NOT ask the Lord to save him. No. He asked the Lord to "remember him" and we all know how the Lord responded.
As our Lord calls each of us individually he deals with each of us individually. Who then, is another to sit in judgement offering up their "opinion" of the matter when they were not there to begin with and yes, I've been guilty of having judged others.
Rd2, hang in there. You can't change anything in the past. You can't change your eye color or add one inch to your height. Charge ahead brother! If one soul comes to know Jesus as Savior because of you then Praise The Lord, you're still being used. Don't allow anyone to tell you that you can't be effective! If some don't want to breath the same air as you do because of a divorce, then move on! Won't be long until they find another to judge and forget all about you.
Praise the Lord you have the courage to share your personal hardships. Sharing is good for the soul. It takes a lot of strength to provide details such as you did a page or two back all the while it takes no courage at all to judge.
...if the Lord is still using you according to His plan, then let Him. God Bless.
Satan is very good at keeping these past situations on the front burner in all of our minds. Attempting to heap guilt upon guilt. Sadness upon sadness. Frustration upon frustration. Then, those who have never walked in another's shoes, those arm chair quarterbacks, begin to judge while relying upon the Scriptures to justify their opinion and position. It's judging! They make reference to their "opinion" but their "opinion" are the result of their judging.
What you did and how you acted and how you responded way back then is what happened. End of subject! You can't change a thing and as such, I am of the opinion that it is a "sin" to even allow yourself to become burdened down with what you have no control over. Accordingly, I "sin" quite often in this arena.
Consider the thief on the cross. A deathbed salvation, if you will, all the while many believers will jump up emphatically denying the effectiveness of, or the sincerity of such a plea just minutes or hours away from death. This thief did NOT ask the Lord to save him. No. He asked the Lord to "remember him" and we all know how the Lord responded.
As our Lord calls each of us individually he deals with each of us individually. Who then, is another to sit in judgement offering up their "opinion" of the matter when they were not there to begin with and yes, I've been guilty of having judged others.
Rd2, hang in there. You can't change anything in the past. You can't change your eye color or add one inch to your height. Charge ahead brother! If one soul comes to know Jesus as Savior because of you then Praise The Lord, you're still being used. Don't allow anyone to tell you that you can't be effective! If some don't want to breath the same air as you do because of a divorce, then move on! Won't be long until they find another to judge and forget all about you.
Praise the Lord you have the courage to share your personal hardships. Sharing is good for the soul. It takes a lot of strength to provide details such as you did a page or two back all the while it takes no courage at all to judge.
...if the Lord is still using you according to His plan, then let Him. God Bless.
You Are the Sum of the GOOD on this Board!
HAMel, your letter was touching, and thought provoking. You are right about the fact that I am often troubled over things I can't change, no matter how badly I'd wanted to. I have moved on in many ways, but, my struggle with my daughter and her choice of lifestyles has caused me to wonder if I'd have only.....????
I know I can't change who and what she claims she was born into, but, the devil still has a small foothold, and it is a constant fight to keep him at arms length.
You are right about the joy I've come to know through the hearts and lifes that have been changed through the restored ministry God has given me. I've seen countless numbers of souls come to the Lord, and an even larger number return to Him through my transparent testimony.
If I have any weapon, other than those the Lord has given, it is in the ability to reach large numbers of people with the story of my fall from grace (in Prodigal Daze, and Thorn Daze) and subsequent testimony, which drive Satan up the walls of hell when God uses me to win them away and back from his hold.
Thanks for being the consummate brother whom you are, and more importantly, being the kind of BB member I have been praying and believing for. There a select few on this board who lives to judge, and love to judge. However, even more, like you, who really care. You are the reason I remain on the board, because all the HAMels in the world do better for others than the few bad apples in the rotten barrel.
God bless,
Pastor Paul
HAMel, your letter was touching, and thought provoking. You are right about the fact that I am often troubled over things I can't change, no matter how badly I'd wanted to. I have moved on in many ways, but, my struggle with my daughter and her choice of lifestyles has caused me to wonder if I'd have only.....????
I know I can't change who and what she claims she was born into, but, the devil still has a small foothold, and it is a constant fight to keep him at arms length.
You are right about the joy I've come to know through the hearts and lifes that have been changed through the restored ministry God has given me. I've seen countless numbers of souls come to the Lord, and an even larger number return to Him through my transparent testimony.
If I have any weapon, other than those the Lord has given, it is in the ability to reach large numbers of people with the story of my fall from grace (in Prodigal Daze, and Thorn Daze) and subsequent testimony, which drive Satan up the walls of hell when God uses me to win them away and back from his hold.
Thanks for being the consummate brother whom you are, and more importantly, being the kind of BB member I have been praying and believing for. There a select few on this board who lives to judge, and love to judge. However, even more, like you, who really care. You are the reason I remain on the board, because all the HAMels in the world do better for others than the few bad apples in the rotten barrel.
God bless,
Pastor Paul
RD2, we are to not be unequally yoked.
I can imagine that if fourteen seminary graduates were asked to preach on this topic..., you would end up with fourteen different applications.
When youth marry how do they know they are "equally yoked"? Well, they might both be Christians, Born Again, Blood Washed Believers in Christ and have accepted Him as their Savior. But one leans toward Free Will while the other leans in another direction. One desires to live up north in the snow while the other wants to live in Texas. One desires only two children, the other desires four. One can assume responsibility more readily than the other. One likes football, the other likes tennis. One likes chocolate ice cream the other vanilla.
Well then, we just have to learn to give and take. To compromise. Agree to disagree. But what if one, instead of maturity, remains immature and finally asks..., "What am I doing here"? The marriage would probably be over. You were unequally yoked. How do you know this even after a courtship of lets say, five years. Some people just never grow up as they should.
Unless the Lord reaches down and "thumps" both in the head with a clear and unmistakable Command..., often what is considered to be love, really isn't.
I am certainly not an educated man in that I haven't studied the Bible and all things associated as many have. I was telling a young man the other day that had I stayed in the Military for 20 to 30 years I might not have ever met the Lord. Had I become one to hold a doctorate degree in anything my ego might have inflated to the point I could get through a door.
I am what I am and I am pleased with that. I certainly have no objections to learning and discovering more as I go along and I am of the opinion that where I am right now fits in perfectly according to Gods plan for my life.
You are where you are for the same reason. Holier than thous are where they are because of that ego thing. May God Bless!
ps: your daughter is where she is because she wants to be there! My three children are where they are because that is where they want to be! Every poster on this forum is where they are because that is where they want to be. Until any of us come around, so "be" it! How many of us are really where the Lord wants us to be?
I can imagine that if fourteen seminary graduates were asked to preach on this topic..., you would end up with fourteen different applications.
When youth marry how do they know they are "equally yoked"? Well, they might both be Christians, Born Again, Blood Washed Believers in Christ and have accepted Him as their Savior. But one leans toward Free Will while the other leans in another direction. One desires to live up north in the snow while the other wants to live in Texas. One desires only two children, the other desires four. One can assume responsibility more readily than the other. One likes football, the other likes tennis. One likes chocolate ice cream the other vanilla.
Well then, we just have to learn to give and take. To compromise. Agree to disagree. But what if one, instead of maturity, remains immature and finally asks..., "What am I doing here"? The marriage would probably be over. You were unequally yoked. How do you know this even after a courtship of lets say, five years. Some people just never grow up as they should.
Unless the Lord reaches down and "thumps" both in the head with a clear and unmistakable Command..., often what is considered to be love, really isn't.
I am certainly not an educated man in that I haven't studied the Bible and all things associated as many have. I was telling a young man the other day that had I stayed in the Military for 20 to 30 years I might not have ever met the Lord. Had I become one to hold a doctorate degree in anything my ego might have inflated to the point I could get through a door.
I am what I am and I am pleased with that. I certainly have no objections to learning and discovering more as I go along and I am of the opinion that where I am right now fits in perfectly according to Gods plan for my life.
You are where you are for the same reason. Holier than thous are where they are because of that ego thing. May God Bless!
ps: your daughter is where she is because she wants to be there! My three children are where they are because that is where they want to be! Every poster on this forum is where they are because that is where they want to be. Until any of us come around, so "be" it! How many of us are really where the Lord wants us to be?
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When the passage was written typically women got married at the ages of 12-15 and men were much older.
When the passage was written typically women got married at the ages of 12-15 and men were much older.
...and we can assume that all men walked around with scraggly beards back then, no? (Not trying to argue)
The "intent" at the time all scripture was written was not only appropriate for that time but is also appropriate for us today. Consequently though, what many fail to take into consideration of late is that our world has changed. Jesus rode on the back of a donkey. Today, he would ride in something like the Pope Mobile.
I fully agree that the Word of God is, has been and always will be the truth. I would also contribute that in many areas of modern life the application of the Word allows us a little room to move around in. We are dealing with the "living Word". I mean, do we wear suits and ties to church today..., or robes from sack cloth?
I against abortion..., there are some however in Christian Churches who disagree. I certainly don't have all the answers but then again, who am I?
...and we can assume that all men walked around with scraggly beards back then, no? (Not trying to argue)
The "intent" at the time all scripture was written was not only appropriate for that time but is also appropriate for us today. Consequently though, what many fail to take into consideration of late is that our world has changed. Jesus rode on the back of a donkey. Today, he would ride in something like the Pope Mobile.
I fully agree that the Word of God is, has been and always will be the truth. I would also contribute that in many areas of modern life the application of the Word allows us a little room to move around in. We are dealing with the "living Word". I mean, do we wear suits and ties to church today..., or robes from sack cloth?
I against abortion..., there are some however in Christian Churches who disagree. I certainly don't have all the answers but then again, who am I?
My point was that being equally yoked has little to do with age and more to do with attitude and focus. Men and women are typically getting married at an older age and the divorced rate is at an all tike high. Age has something to do with maturity. Some have aged and have repeated the same lesson 15 times, while others have learned it the first time and are able to learn 15 lessons. It is attitude and time in combination not just age. Some are like wet concrete and can be molded while other are like the concrete that is all mixed up and permanently set. I have seen 29 year old men who act like old men.
Some are like wet concrete and can be molded while other are like the concrete that is all mixed up and permanently set. I have seen 29 year old men who act like old men.
...yes indeed. Attitudes have changed much over the decades and not really for the good. Back in my day the military caused a nation full of young men to mature. Not so today.
...yes indeed. Attitudes have changed much over the decades and not really for the good. Back in my day the military caused a nation full of young men to mature. Not so today.
When I taught at the university I always welcomed the football players and military personnel in class. Most of the time they were more matured and better disciplined than the rest of the class. The U.S. should make it mandatory for every person to be in the military for at least one year right after high school.