Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

[Helen]

By the way, I don't GAZE at the wine, when it is red, white, or any other color. I am generally in conversation with friends and looking at them! I am quite sure I gaze at my food far more often than I gaze at my very occasional glass of wine (once or twice a month, one glass...). I guess that makes me a terrible glutton!

So, to repeat:

It is God's law which defines sin. Paul mentions this several times.

There is no law against drinking. There are strong warnings against too much/dependency/drunkeness.

But until there is anyone here who can show me what passage I must have missed saying something to the effect that "Thou shalt not consume any alcoholic beverage", those who say it is a sin are adding to the law, which is exactly what Jesus was so angry about in Matthew 23 and other places.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

you, my friend, are dishonest. I take it you have no preference for any food, drink, music, clothes, cars, etc. If you do, by your own definition you are selfish, and you are being a hypocrite...an actor, remember?

No, I do not have preferences to any kind of foods. I will eat any food or drink (sans alcohol) approved by the FDA.

Music? Anything not worldly.

Clothes? I definitely am not up with the styles.

Cars? Matters not what car I am in, I don't drive. Blind people are not allowed to drive in this state (or yours either, I daresay).

No, I live a simple life. Relying on the Word of God to show me what is needed in my life.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Wrong, Standing Firm. Absolutely wrong.

Unless, of course, you are willing to say that driving a car instead of walking (wastes resources, makes you fat), using a vacuum instead of a broom (wastes resources, etc.), fixing food to be appealing instead of simply eating boiled meat, raw vegetables, plain bread, etc. and other such are also simply to satisfy the flesh and therefore are bad witnesses and wrong and sinful.

Don't add to the law. That is a very dangerous thing to do or to teach.

You are comparing food that is needed for the body to alcohol that is not needed. You are comparing needs to wants.

Don't add to or neglect the Word of God. This is a very dangerous thing to do or to teach.

 

[reformedbeliever]

No, I do not have preferences to any kind of foods. I will eat any food or drink (sans alcohol) approved by the FDA.

Music? Anything not worldly.

Clothes? I definitely am not up with the styles.

Cars? Matters not what car I am in, I don't drive. Blind people are not allowed to drive in this state (or yours either, I daresay).

No, I live a simple life. Relying on the Word of God to show me what is needed in my life.

SFIC.... Please don't get me wrong. I am not calling you a liar. I'm just very curious, as it seems I remember you saying you use dragon speak or some voice recognition software. How do you use the quote feature and only take part of the quote? Honest question from someone interested in voice recognition software.

 

[webdog]

No, I do not have preferences to any kind of foods. I will eat any food or drink (sans alcohol) approved by the FDA.

You must be the only human in history to not favor some food over others.

Music? Anything not worldly.

This is a personal preference based on a personal definition of worldly. This is in fact choosing one thing over another, something you state is selfish.

Clothes? I definitely am not up with the styles.

Has nothing to do with style, although a beard certainly qualifies. Long sleeve over short sleeve? Boxers of briefs (don't answer )? Rubber bottom shoes or leather? You do in fact have preferences, you just won't admit it because your "selfish" theory would apply to you.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Text-to-speech software allows me to hear words and I can select specific words, sentences, or phrases for either deletion ("delete last word, sentence, or paragraph") after listening to them, or I can insert thoughts in between such sentences (Go to; dictate mode).

 

[reformedbeliever]

Text-to-speech software allows me to hear words and I can select specific words, sentences, or phrases for either deletion ("delete last word, sentence, or paragraph") after listening to them, or I can insert thoughts in between such sentences (Go to; dictate mode).

thank you sir. I had a deaf person in my congregation..... thus the question about the software. I'll not hijack this thread.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You must be the only human in history to not favor some food over others.

This is a personal preference based on a personal definition of worldly. This is in fact choosing one thing over another, something you state is selfish.

Has nothing to do with style, although a beard certainly qualifies. Long sleeve over short sleeve? Boxers of briefs (don't answer )? Rubber bottom shoes or leather? You do in fact have preferences, you just won't admit it because your "selfish" theory would apply to you.

In the music category, if I turn on the radio and a song is playing and the Spirit reveals to me that the music is feeding the flesh, I cut it off. No selfishness there.

Clothes again? If one were to look in my closet or my chest of drawers, one would see that I have only simple chothing, nothing elaborate or costly. No, no selfishness there either.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

At least Helen had the decency to answer the question I put forward. Her reason for consuming alcohol:

1. Because I was raised in that environment (and no, neither of my parents was a drunk!)
2. Because I like the taste of a smooth, dry wine.
3. Because we have friends who also enjoy an occasional glass of wine and when they are over I don't want to make them feel awkward. None of us has ever even been high -- at least not in the last forty or so years!
4. Because wine is a much safer relaxant for me than any medication.
5. Because God does not consider it a sin; in fact quite the reverse -- wine is a natural result of fruits. Noah made wine on purpose and he was a righteous man. Christ changed the water to wine (yeah, the real stuff! It rescued the groom from a possible lawsuit.) Paul told Timothy to have a little wine for his stomach's sake. Not grape juice -- wine.
6. Wine and beer have a proper place. The Bible warns about abuse, but not about use. In fact in a couple of places it suggests and condones use.

My reply which has not been challenged:

1. Because I was raised in that environment (and no, neither of my parents was a drunk!)

If you were raised in an environment where your parents smoked cigarettes would that influence you to be a smoker? Would that make smoking anymore permissible? Our culture we were raised in does not define us. I have counseled many teens to rise above their raising.

2. Because I like the taste of a smooth, dry wine.

Perhaps the most irrelevant point of all. As disciples of Christ we are to put aside petty personal preferences and serve out of obedience. Helen, I like to sit around the house with my family back in Hattiesburg MS where I grew up, but the Lord has called me to be far away from my family in his service. If I as a pastor did what I liked all the time my life would be a real mess and so would my church.

3. Because we have friends who also enjoy an occasional glass of wine and when they are over I don't want to make them feel awkward. None of us has ever even been high -- at least not in the last forty or so years!

Yeah, well get some new friends. If you are not living the way you should because of peer pressure then get rid of the dead weight. What kind of friends do you have who cannot realistically understand as a minister of the gospel that you may abstain? You and your husband are ministers giving in to peer pressure? UNREAL!

Do not tell me that you have been drinking and never been high! You are in no position to judge for yourself if you are high or not. A frog does not know that it is boiling to death if you raise the temperature at the rate of a degree every minute. Alcohol creeps up on you and by the time it has you it is too late. You have probably noticed the effects to some degree. If you feel any effects at all you are under the influence and you cannot drink alcohol and not feel at least some effect.

4. Because wine is a much safer relaxant for me than any medication.

Why does a minister of the gospel or a born again believer need a relaxant? Has not Christ promised to supply us with all our needs? Does not Christ give us the peace that surpasses all understanding? Did Christ not say do not worry or fear but in all things pray and God will supply all our needs? If you seek fulfillment from anything that Jesus otherwise could have supplied you that is by definition idolatry.

5. Because God does not consider it a sin; in fact quite the reverse -- wine is a natural result of fruits. Noah made wine on purpose and he was a righteous man. Christ changed the water to wine (yeah, the real stuff! It rescued the groom from a possible lawsuit.) Paul told Timothy to have a little wine for his stomach's sake. Not grape juice -- wine.

Noah? Do you really want to bring Noah into this discussion? Look where drinking got Noah: "Noah began to be man of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. He drank of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered in his tent." Moreover, his own children did something to or with him to the extent that Noah cursed Canaan for his part in the ordeal.

6. Wine and beer have a proper place. The Bible warns about abuse, but not about use. In fact in a couple of places it suggests and condones use.

The fact remains that the Bible does not prohibit alcohol, but the Bible also does not prohibit slavery. Do you want to suggest that we should not prohibit slavery?

However, I must say Helen that I am very disappointed by your self-centered approach to drinking.

The Bible warns us to avoid the appearance of evil (1 Thess. 5:22).

The Bible also warns about causing an immature believer or a literal child from stumbling, "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin,it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matt. 18:6)

Moreover, what fellowship does light have darkness? Alcohol is responsible for the rape and murder of numerous women every year. Alcohol is responsible for the death of innocent children every year through dwi and abuse. Alcohol is responsible for numerous failed marriages, businesses, and destroys the lives of those who abuse and consume it.

As Christians our role is to live lives of holiness and purity. If there is any doubt about whether something is right, we should err on the side of caution. To be honest with you I simply find your reasons for drinking alcohol to be in poor 'taste.'

 

[ccrobinson]

A frog does not know that it is boiling to death if you raise the temperature at the rate of a degree every minute.

Pardon the hijack.

The Boiling Frog Legend is not true. If the temperature is raised sufficiently, the frog will jump out of the pot.

Carry on.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

Pardon the hijack.

The Boiling Frog Legend is not true. If the temperature is raised sufficiently, the frog will jump out of the pot.

Carry on.

I think I qualified the statement that if you raise the temperature at one degree per minute. I do think there have been plenty of experiments done to prove this theory. If you go slowly enough, he’ll never know he’s being boiled alive. As the water gets hotter, the frog gets sleepier. Finally, it’s over.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And just to prove I have no food preferences, I will even eat frog legs.

 

[ituttut]

A Gift

This is to all, and to no one in particular. If you care to make it personal, His Word will accommodate you.

His Word tells us that "drinking" is not a sin. We are the only ones that can make it a sin.

If Baptist Associations wish to "outlaw" it for the autonomous churches that belong to whatever "hierarchy" they have placed themselves under, then they (the autonomous church) should know to make a decision to give up their right to follow scripture, or bow to the unscriptural demands placed on it by the Association. If they are wrong in one area, could they be wrong in other areas?

Who is it that tells us that "drinking" is a sin? It is not His Word, so it has to be someone else. I do not believe in that "someone else". A "drunkard" will become a "drunkard" if that is their "will", church member or not. A homosexual will become a homosexual if that is their "will", church member or not.

Just let each member study His Word, and find out what the "will" of God is for them. Whatever we eat or we drink we do it to the Glory of God. He gave us such things. We are to say "Thank you Lord for giving us that which makes glad the heart of man". We that have Grace in the eyes of the Lord, receive the "gifts He gives to us". We don't have to use them, but they are there for us if we wish to partake.

God gave to Noah "wine", and Noah drank too much of the gift at one sitting. But evidently Noah quit such foolishness. God allowed Noah to find out on his own about this wonderful gift He gave to man.

Some will never partake of this gift from their God. That is their right, and I'll not endeavor to tell anyone they are "sinning" if they don't accept and use the gift as it should be used. So please Christian friends, as you condemn we that take a sip of wine (or perhaps those that are not afraid of "hard liquor" handled with the same care as that of wine), please come to understand that you are not condemning us, but you are rebellious to God, and to yourself if the belief is that it is a sin to "drink". I hope you all use and understand the "free gift" of our "justification" better than you do this one.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

This is to all, and to no one in particular. If you care to make it personal, His Word will accommodate you.

His Word tells us that "drinking" is not a sin. We are the only ones that can make it a sin.

If Baptist Associations wish to "outlaw" it for the autonomous churches that belong to whatever "hierarchy" they have placed themselves under, then they (the autonomous church) should know to make a decision to give up their right to follow scripture, or bow to the unscriptural demands placed on it by the Association. If they are wrong in one area, could they be wrong in other areas?

Who is it that tells us that "drinking" is a sin? It is not His Word, so it has to be someone else. I do not believe in that "someone else". A "drunkard" will become a "drunkard" if that is their "will", church member or not. A homosexual will become a homosexual if that is their "will", church member or not.

Just let each member study His Word, and find out what the "will" of God is for them. Whatever we eat or we drink we do it to the Glory of God. He gave us such things. We are to say "Thank you Lord for giving us that which makes glad the heart of man". We that have Grace in the eyes of the Lord, receive the "gifts He gives to us". We don't have to use them, but they are there for us if we wish to partake.

God gave to Noah "wine", and Noah drank too much of the gift at one sitting. But evidently Noah quit such foolishness. God allowed Noah to find out on his own about this wonderful gift He gave to man.

Some will never partake of this gift from their God. That is their right, and I'll not endeavor to tell anyone they are "sinning" if they don't accept and use the gift as it should be used. So please Christian friends, as you condemn we that take a sip of wine (or perhaps those that are not afraid of "hard liquor" handled with the same care as that of wine), please come to understand that you are not condemning us, but you are rebellious to God, and to yourself if the belief is that it is a sin to "drink". I hope you all use and understand the "free gift" of our "justification" better than you do this one.

Alcohol is the result of fermentation. Fermentation is the result of fruit going bad. Fruit spoils because sin entered the world and brought death. So at its very core alcohol is a by-product of the fall. Therefore if alcohol were a gift from God it would have been present in garden prior to the fall which it was not. Jesus said you cannot bear both good fruit and bad fruit from the same tree. Look at the fruit alcohol bears, rape, murder, sexual abuse of children, homicide DWI, etc.

You are playing with fire when you drink. There are so many viable options for us to drink that are not alcoholic. So why would you or anyone chose to drink alcohol when there is a clear risk of alcoholism and there is a direct link with gross misconduct?

 

[Helen]

And then, of course, why would ANYONE choose to take any painkillers at all when there is a distinct risk of addiction and thus of theft for the money for them and even worse....?

That is the same argument you are using for alcohol. Please do not take any drugs for any reason. After all, that could lead to addiction and that is really bad! And, in Revelation 21:8 we read that those involved with pharmacopiea will burn in the fiery lake. And please remember where we get the word pharmaceuticals from!

After all, if you are not going to make a distinction between a glass of wine and being drunk, there is no reason to make a distinction between having a vicodin or whatever after surgery and becoming addicted to them, even to the point of being barred from heaven....

 

[Brother Bob]

I was a heavy drinker when I was a young man. There was nothing I did not drink but Scotch being my drink of choice. I drink enough wine to know that you cannot drink a full glass of wine without "feeling" it, nobody can unless the glass holds about 1 ounce. Everyone will have to live for the Lord every how they see fit but to say you can drink a full glass of wine with no effects is something I just do not agree with.

A full glass of scotch which is about 80% acohol will knock you flat on your face and wine being about 28% acohol will be close to 1/2 what a full glass of scotch would be so even though most people who have drink before and used to it will not be drunk. A person who has never drink acohol would probably be drunk from a full glass of wine but anyone will certainly feel the effects of a full glass of wine IMO.

You can take a beer which is about 6% acohol and put a shot of whiskey sit the whole shot down in the glass of beer which is called a "boiler maker" and after about three drinks you will be wiped out. The whiskey being about 60 to 80% acohol.

 

[ituttut]

Alcohol is the result of fermentation. Fermentation is the result of fruit going bad. Fruit spoils because sin entered the world and brought death. So at its very core alcohol is a by-product of the fall. Therefore if alcohol were a gift from God it would have been present in garden prior to the fall which it was not. Jesus said you cannot bear both good fruit and bad fruit from the same tree. Look at the fruit alcohol bears, rape, murder, sexual abuse of children, homicide DWI, etc.

You are playing with fire when you drink. There are so many viable options for us to drink that are not alcoholic. So why would you or anyone chose to drink alcohol when there is a clear risk of alcoholism and there is a direct link with gross misconduct?

When we are young and inexperienced, the warning is to be given, do as I say until you grown up, then you can do as I, or make up your own mind. But until then I want you to stay away from the "fire". As you mature you will know how to handle the fire. If you do not learn, you will be "burned".

With love, I really have to ask, "Are you sure of what you are saying is what God tells you?" Were you there in the Garden? Your "father was", but perhaps he couldn't bring it with him for God took the "gladness" from him.

In your bias you are missing the Word of God. Can we deny wine is given to Noah? No we can't find it in the Garden of Eden, for we have no idea of what was in the Garden of Eden. Perhaps "wine" was in the Garden of Eden - I don't know and you don't know. But odds are it was. When will Jesus again drink wine? Is He not "Paradise". Will He not again drink it again with, at His Table, with His Apostles?

But whether is was or not makes no difference. We were "kicked-out" of that Paradise, and perhaps, just perhaps this is one of the things He shows us that was in the Garden. We don't see it on the other side of the "flood", for the ground was cursed, so how could this wonderful gift of the vine grow? The "curse of the ground was lifted", and now we can drink that which makes "glad the heart of man".

Do Christians subscribe to that which is in His Word to be truth, or just the writings of man to place our faith in. "He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15. And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart," Psalms 104:14-15.

 

[av1611jim]

I just did a little research.
There are at present 219 threads about drinking wine on this board.
I think all of our time would be better spent discussing something else.
The line has been drawn in the sand many times.
I see no hope of either side crossing over to the other side.
219!!!

219!!! c'mon folks!!!
get over it!!!

 

[Helen]

Alcohol is the result of fermentation. Fermentation is the result of fruit going bad. Fruit spoils because sin entered the world and brought death. So at its very core alcohol is a by-product of the fall.

I'm sorry, but that is an incredibly ignorant statement. First of all, fruit rotting and fruit fermenting are two entirely different things. Rot is caused by bacteria and fermenting by yeast.

Now, if you think bacterial disintegration (rotting) is a result of the fall, then please understand that, in that case, Adam and Eve never digested their food, nor did any animal. They never went to the bathroom, either. And, if by chance they did either or both, their feces never disintegrated to become fertlizer for the plants.

Lastly, I challenge you to find any place in the Bible where a plant of any kind can be killed. I do not think you will find that word associated with plants. In addition, if you think plants can be killed, biblically, then what were Adam and Eve to eat?

The death that was the result of sin was the death of humans and animals with nephesh.

 

[ituttut]

And then, of course, why would ANYONE choose to take any painkillers at all when there is a distinct risk of addiction and thus of theft for the money for them and even worse....?

That is the same argument you are using for alcohol. Please do not take any drugs for any reason. After all, that could lead to addiction and that is really bad! And, in Revelation 21:8 we read that those involved with pharmacopiea will burn in the fiery lake. And please remember where we get the word pharmaceuticals from!

After all, if you are not going to make a distinction between a glass of wine and being drunk, there is no reason to make a distinction between having a vicodin or whatever after surgery and becoming addicted to them, even to the point of being barred from heaven....

Chasing truth here.