Is Drinking Wine Wrong??

[standingfirminChrist]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=836341&postcount=166 The above link will explain why the wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy could not have been fermented.

BTW, the wine in both accounts of Deuteronomy, Psalm 104, and in Prov. 20:1; 23:31 are 'yayin,' which further proves the word 'wine' must be generic.

Why would God tell us to stay away from fermented wine in one passage and to partake of it in another? The answer... He wouldn't. We are to stay away from the fermented wine, and partake of non-fermented wine.

They make non-alcoholic wine's and beers today. Why don't the proponents of wine drinking stand for that kind of wine instead of that which is a result of decay-- fermentation?

 

[Alcott]

I am no coward. I have given God's truth. You on the other hand are using a verse that says give to those ready to die and are bitter to advocate drinking on a regular basis. That, my friend, is twisting God's Holy Word.

If you are no coward, let's see your Yes or No. And there is no value judgment given as to bitterness or death in this passage-- is there: Yes or No?

 

[mojoala]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=836341&postcount=166 The above link will explain why the wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy could not have been fermented.

Not really.


Word for "Strong Drink"

H7941
שׁכר
shêkâr
shay-kawr'
From H7937; an intoxicant, that is, intensely alcoholic liquor: - strong drink, + drunkard, strong wine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Again, strong drink must be generic, either fermented or not fermented in light of Deuteronomy 14 and Deuteronomy 29

 

[annsni]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=836341&postcount=166 The above link will explain why the wine and strong drink in Deuteronomy could not have been fermented.

That totally didn't make any sense!!

yayin (wine in 14:26) is a word that means 'wine' (it's also translated as banqueting and winebibbers). It's from an unused root meaning to effervesce - non-alcoholic juice doesnt' effervesce unless you add carbon dioxide to it or it's fermenting.

shekar (strong drink in 14:26) means "strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor" according to Strongs. The word is translated as 'strong drink', 'strong wine' or 'drunkard' in the KVJ.

I don't understand this 'generic' thing making it NOT wine. It says what it says.

As for the other verse, it's got totally nothing to do with this OR drinking! He drank the 'blood of the grapes" - the juice, is how I read it. The words mean "blood... of grapes" (figuratively)(dam) and grape (`enab) - one time it's translated as wine (Hosea 3:1) but the rest of the time it's 'grape', That's not wine. The words are completely different in both verses. But then again, he drank oil and honey from the rocks, so I think it's a bit of a different situation from what we normally encounter, don't you think?

 

[annsni]

Again, strong drink must be generic, either fermented or not fermented in light of Deuteronomy 14 and Deuteronomy 29

OK - I see the second Deut verse I have is wrong - let me look at the 29 verse. The 32 verse TOTALLY didn't work!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

just as water is a generic word (filtered, non filtered, pure, spring, distilled, muddy, etc...) and milk is also generic (chocolate, skim, homogenized, etc...) so also is wine a generic word.

 

[annsni]

OK - I don't see how the chapter 29 verse says that the words in the chapter 14 verse can't be regular wine and strong drink. In chapter 14, the Israelites are getting their 'rules' to live by and in chapter 29 verse 6, it is looking back at the 40 years in the dessert. BOTH are talking of wine and strong drink. Strong drink is SPECIFICALLY an alcoholic beverage that intoxicates - that can't be a word meaning something else. It's NEVER used as anything being NON-alcoholic - EVER. I think your reasoning is completely wrong.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Do ARIEL wines contain any alcohol?
It is physically impossible to remove 100% of the alcohol from a fermented beverage. The legal definition of a non-alcoholic beverage requires a product to contain less than 1/2 of 1% of alcohol. ARIEL non-alcoholic wines contain less alcohol than most fresh squeezed orange juice!

According to Ariel Vineyards, their 'non-alcoholic' wine has been judged best tasting wine over several alcoholic wines.

The fact that the 'non-alcoholic' wine has less than half of one percent alcohol in it tells me that it is closest to being made in Biblical fashion. The scripture tells us that one would have to drink all day long before it would inflame them. Much less intoxicating than the wines and beers that are sold in most stores today.

 

[webdog]

Best wine, as has been shown time and time again, is not fermented. Read Deuteronomy 14:26 in context and you will find it is not fermented wine when compared with wine that the people refrained from later on in Deuteronomy. The Lord was pleased when they refrained from drinking the fermented wine! Wonder why?

The best wine is the WELL AGED wine. Don't bring up Deut. 14:26, deal with the Isaiah 25:6. Go into any winery in the country and ask for the "best" wine. They will not say "Oh...the finest juice we have is over here...". It's sad how you twist plain Scripture to support your views.

 

[annsni]

According to Ariel Vineyards, their 'non-alcoholic' wine has been judged best tasting wine over several alcoholic wines.

The fact that the 'non-alcoholic' wine has less than half of one percent alcohol in it tells me that it is closest to being made in Biblical fashion. The scripture tells us that one would have to drink all day long before it would inflame them. Much less intoxicating than the wines and beers that are sold in most stores today.

HUH? So the best wine is Ariel Vineyard's non-alcoholic so the 'best wine' in the Bible is non-alcoholic??

Where does it say in Scritpure that wine has less than a 1/2 % alcohol? Where does it say that one would have to drink all day long before it would inflame them?? I don't understand!

Ann

 

[webdog]

The fact that the 'non-alcoholic' wine has less than half of one percent alcohol in it tells me that it is closest to being made in Biblical fashion. The scripture tells us that one would have to drink all day long before it would inflame them. Much less intoxicating than the wines and beers that are sold in most stores today.

Now you admit that even non alcholic wine STILL has alcohol in it! I thought all alcohol was wrong...even .00001%?! I would like how they made this non alcholic wine in biblical times...absent the tools we have today.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The best wine is the WELL AGED wine. Don't bring up Deut. 14:26, deal with the Isaiah 25:6. Go into any winery in the country and ask for the "best" wine. They will not say "Oh...the finest juice we have is over here...". It's sad how you twist plain Scripture to support your views.

Guess again, Ariel ages their wines. Go to their site and read. Call them, they will tell you.

 

[annsni]

Here's Ariel's site on how they make non-alcoholic wine. I'm thinking the Israelites did NOT have a reverse osmosis unit.

http://www.arielvineyards.com/about_diagram.html

 

[webdog]

Guess again, Ariel ages their wines. Go to their site and read. Call them, they will tell you.

Who cares what Ariel says. The Bible...God's Word says the best wine is the WELL AGED wine, that which sits on the lees (not well aged non alcholic or "less than one percent alcholic" wine).

Hebrews lees; that is, of wines kept long on the lees. The word used to express the lees in the original signifies the preservers; because they preserve the strength and flavor of the wine. "All recent wines, after the fermentation has ceased, ought to be kept on their lees for a certain time, which greatly contributes to increase their strength and flavor. Whenever this first fermentation has been deficient, they will retain a more rich and sweet taste than is natural to them in a recent true vinous state; and unless farther fermentation is promoted by their lying longer on their own lees, they will never attain their genuine strength and flavor, but run into repeated and ineffectual fermentations, and soon degenerate into a liquor of an acetous kind. All wines of a light and austere kind, by a fermentation too great, or too long continued, certainly degenerate into a weak sort of vinegar; while the stronger not only require, but will safely bear a stronger and often-repeated fermentation; and are more apt to degenerate from a defect than excess of fermentation into a vapid, ropy, and at length into a putrescent state." Sir Edward Barry, Observations on the Wines of the Ancients, p. 9, 10.

 

[webdog]

Here's Ariel's site on how they make non-alcoholic wine. I'm thinking the Israelites did NOT have a reverse osmosis unit.

http://www.arielvineyards.com/about_diagram.html

That's what they must have been carrying inside the Ark of the Covenant :laugh:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

HUH? So the best wine is Ariel Vineyard's non-alcoholic so the 'best wine' in the Bible is non-alcoholic??

Where does it say in Scritpure that wine has less than a 1/2 % alcohol? Where does it say that one would have to drink all day long before it would inflame them?? I don't understand!

Ann

Isaiah 5:11Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

One had to drink great quantities to get drunk in Bible times... not today.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Here's Ariel's site on how they make non-alcoholic wine. I'm thinking the Israelites did NOT have a reverse osmosis unit.

http://www.arielvineyards.com/about_diagram.html

They very well could have. It is quite evident they had to drink great amounts before the wine inflamed them.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Who cares what Ariel says. The Bible...God's Word says the best wine is the WELL AGED wine, that which sits on the lees (not well aged non alcholic or "less than one percent alcholic" wine).

Hebrews lees; that is, of wines kept long on the lees. The word used to express the lees in the original signifies the preservers; because they preserve the strength and flavor of the wine. "All recent wines, after the fermentation has ceased, ought to be kept on their lees for a certain time, which greatly contributes to increase their strength and flavor. Whenever this first fermentation has been deficient, they will retain a more rich and sweet taste than is natural to them in a recent true vinous state; and unless farther fermentation is promoted by their lying longer on their own lees, they will never attain their genuine strength and flavor, but run into repeated and ineffectual fermentations, and soon degenerate into a liquor of an acetous kind. All wines of a light and austere kind, by a fermentation too great, or too long continued, certainly degenerate into a weak sort of vinegar; while the stronger not only require, but will safely bear a stronger and often-repeated fermentation; and are more apt to degenerate from a defect than excess of fermentation into a vapid, ropy, and at length into a putrescent state." Sir Edward Barry, Observations on the Wines of the Ancients, p. 9, 10.

Jesus created 'the best wine' at the wedding feast. That wine was not 'well-aged', now was it. He created a new wine, non-alcoholic!

 

[annsni]

Isaiah 5:11Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

One had to drink great quantities to get drunk in Bible times... not today.

To me, that sounds like an alcoholic - like some people I know. When they wake up, they start on the Bloody Marys - and work their way through lots of stuff throughout the day. They don't even seem drunk at all - until after dinner. Believe me - they're drinking WAY more than 1/2% alcohol yet are not inflamed until evening.