is every sin really under the blood?

deacon jd said:

I have always held the view that a believer will pay for the sins that he commits after conversion himself, and that death is the final payment for sin. I would really like to hear some discussion on this topic.

Christ's atonement and intercession isn't sufficient for you (Heb. 7:25)?

Well, good luck!

 

Well, it's a fact that we're all going to die, but not from the wages of sin.

That is not to say that we may not have to pay some consequences for our sins. God always forgives us, but does not always take away the consequences of our actions.

As humans, we cannot possibly pay the price for our sins. Why do you think Christ died for us? Why did He have the weight of the sins of the world on His shoulders?

That's what weighed Him down at the cross, not the fact that He was going to die. He was born for that purpose.

We all sin everyday, both before and after conversion. If we have to pay for ANY of our sins, Christ died in vain.

Paying for our sins sounds more catholic that Baptist.

We cannot pay for our sins unless our blood is pure and it's not.

There is only one who can atone for us - Jesus Christ - Son of the Living God.

We can either accept that fact by faith and retain the joy of our salvation or reject it and live a miserable life, living in doubt.

When Jesus said, "It is finished..." - He meant exactly that. No more atonement needed.

 

Is there any significance to the fact that, when he said it, he had not yet died and risen again? An atonement that could be finished without his death and resurrection would be interesting indeed.

 

Would both of you please explain the above passage of scripture.

Read it in context.

The author has been contrasting the OT sacrificial system, which was repetitious, temporary, and ineffective, with the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ. The sacrifices of the Temple could never take away sins, and the priest had to keep offering them over and over again. (Heb. 10:11)

But by contrast, Christ's sacrifice did away with those vain, repetitive animal sacrifices once and for all. He made one sacrifice, then sat down at the right hand of God (Heb. 10:12). The work of the priests is never done, but the work of the Son is complete.

Heb. 10:26 is talking about the temple sacrifices, not Christ's once-for-all sacrifice on the cross. It is a warning to the Hebrew Christians who were apparently under persecution and contemplating abandoning Christianity for Judaism: If you abandon Christ, you will find no forgiveness in the obsolete temple system.

 

Are you saying that God gives us Cancer, etc. to keep us from sinning???

God knew we would sin after we got saved. That's why He is just to forgive us when we confess to Him.

God was not talking to lost people in I John 1:9-10...

 

This is what the Church of Christ teach I should know I grew up Church of Christ and left there false teachings after I studied to show myself approved and discovered they were WRONG

 

I read where Jesus healed many, many people. I have yet to read where He made any of them sick...

 

2Co 4:6-18 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (7) But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. (8) We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; (9) Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; (10) Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (11) For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. (12) So then death worketh in us, but life in you. (13) We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; (14) Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. (15) For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. (16) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. (17) For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; (18) While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


Heb 2:14-18 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; (15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. (16) For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. (17) Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (18) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted.


Either you believe the bible or you dont, I for one believe that Jesus Blood was enough for all sins of all people as long as they are saved through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

Wow, what a broad brush stroke. I would not want to be the one to make such a broad judgement against an entire chruch.

I agree that a "do anything you want doctrine" is false. But to swing in the other direction and say that our sins are not forgiven after we believe in Christ is just as much a false doctrine.

On one hand you have people trusting (maybe), but taking forgranted the Blood of Christ. They are disobeying Him and not trying to live like He wants them to. On the other hand you are saying the Christs Blood does not save from all sins and that we can not trust Him to forgive us.

I prefer Christs Blood saves us from all sins past and future. However we submit ourself to His will and the correction of the Holy Spirit and let Him change us into people who will live like He askes of us.

 

Is this just a Baptist problem? I have not thought of this problem particular to just the Baptist churches. What churches (that teach biblical doctine) are strong in this area?

Just curious.

As for the funeral. They are for the families and a chance to preach the way to salvation, Jesus alone. I would not expect the preacher to get up and preach that the deciesed was a dispicable human and will probably burn. That is not the preachers judgement to make. The preacher should probably spoken with the reprobate before he died.

 

Great! I would like to see the scripture to support this ideology that says you will "dearly pay" for your sins after salvation. Good luck!:thumbs:

 

I agree Revmitchell. (Now, ) Nothing like the ideas of the one deacon jd you are answering. Let me see if I've got it right. And never mind that he does not say, at least in this thread, HOW we get this eternal salvation, that he believes in. But, that aside for a moment, let us assume he is and does teach saved by grace through faith. We then build a strawman about some "live any way and 'sin' any way as you please" theology, set it afire, (I guess in order to cook our own ideas) and season it with legalism and judging who or who is or is not saved.

Have I about summed it up? Just wonderin'! I personally am glad someone else who is referred to as the Bishop of our souls, keeps the Lamb's Book of Life, just in case I did not measure up to any particular 'unwritten' standard, in some way.

Ed

 

Well then maybe you would want to use better terminology. To say that a believer will "Dearly Pay" implies having to pay for ones sins. Since Jesus paid for them already it is important to articulate your position correctly. Being chastized and "Paying Dearly" are two different things.