Is excepting Jesus as your personal savior a "work"

[John of Japan]

"even to them that believe on his name"
Here is His name;
his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Are you suggesting a person does not have to repent to be saved?

Of course not. Where did you get that idea? I believe repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation.

There are a number of ways the Bible refers to salvation. "Believe" is the most important one. Others are metaphorical: receive Christ, be born again, etc.

You know, I'd prefer for you to actually respond to what I've written (which you have yet to do) rather than question me about things I have not written. Deal? :type:

 

[freeatlast]

he is making mistake catholics do with paul/James!

paul speaks of the Justification we receive whren we place faith in christ and are saved, while james adressing the practical side of how we one live after being saved!

BOTh would agree that one is saved by tgarce alone,by faith alone, but BOTH would also say that the person saved would bear evidence in their lives of the chnage in some fashion!

edited by poster

 

[freeatlast]

Of course not. Where did you get that idea? I believe repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation.

There are a number of ways the Bible refers to salvation. "Believe" is the most important one. Others are metaphorical: receive Christ, be born again, etc.

You know, I'd prefer for you to actually respond to what I've written (which you have yet to do) rather than question me about things I have not written. Deal? :type:

Is this what you are talking about in regards to faith? I got this from wuest;
work of faith -- the working reality of your faith; its alacrity in receiving the truth, and in evincing itself by its fruits. Not an otiose assent; but a realizing, working faith; not "in word only," but in one continuous chain of "work" (singular, not plural, works), 1Th 1:5-10 Jas 2:22. So "the work of faith" in 2Th 1:11 implies its perfect development (compare Jas 1:4). The other governing substantives similarly mark respectively the characteristic manifestation of the grace which follows each in the genitive. Faith, love, and hope, are the three great Christian graces (1Th 5:8 1Co 13:13).—

faith -- on your part. ALFORD refers the former clause, "good pleasure of his goodness," also to man, arguing that the Greek for "goodness" is never applied to God, and translates, "All [that is, every possible] right purpose of goodness." WAHL, "All sweetness of goodness," that is, impart in full to you all the refreshing delights of goodness. I think that, as in the previous and parallel clause, "calling" refers to GOD'S purpose; and as the Greek for "good pleasure" mostly is used of God, we ought to translate, "fulfil (His) every gracious purpose of goodness (on your part)," that is, fully perfect in you all goodness according to His gracious purpose. Thus, "the grace of our God," 2Th 1:12, corresponds to God's "good pleasure" here, which confirms the English Version, just as "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" is parallel to "work of faith," as Christ especially is the object of faith. "The work of faith"; Greek, (no article; supply from the previous clause all) work of faith"; faith manifested by work, which is its perfected development (Jas 1:4; compare Note, see on 1Th 1:3). Working reality of faith.

I will consider what you have written.

 

[John of Japan]

Is this what you are talking about in regards to faith? I got this from wuest;
work of faith -- the working reality of your faith; its alacrity in receiving the truth, and in evincing itself by its fruits. Not an otiose assent; but a realizing, working faith; not "in word only," but in one continuous chain of "work" (singular, not plural, works), 1Th 1:5-10 Jas 2:22. So "the work of faith" in 2Th 1:11 implies its perfect development (compare Jas 1:4). The other governing substantives similarly mark respectively the characteristic manifestation of the grace which follows each in the genitive. Faith, love, and hope, are the three great Christian graces (1Th 5:8 1Co 13:13).—

faith -- on your part. ALFORD refers the former clause, "good pleasure of his goodness," also to man, arguing that the Greek for "goodness" is never applied to God, and translates, "All [that is, every possible] right purpose of goodness." WAHL, "All sweetness of goodness," that is, impart in full to you all the refreshing delights of goodness. I think that, as in the previous and parallel clause, "calling" refers to GOD'S purpose; and as the Greek for "good pleasure" mostly is used of God, we ought to translate, "fulfil (His) every gracious purpose of goodness (on your part)," that is, fully perfect in you all goodness according to His gracious purpose. Thus, "the grace of our God," 2Th 1:12, corresponds to God's "good pleasure" here, which confirms the English Version, just as "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" is parallel to "work of faith," as Christ especially is the object of faith. "The work of faith"; Greek, (no article; supply from the previous clause all) work of faith"; faith manifested by work, which is its perfected development (Jas 1:4; compare Note, see on 1Th 1:3). Working reality of faith.

In general I agree with both of these commentators. However, I think Wuest goes a little too far, though he was a great Greek scholar. Because of the genetive, the original simply means, IMO, the works that pertain to faith.

I will consider what you have written.

Thank you. That's all I can ask.

 

[saturneptune]

Of course not. Where did you get that idea? I believe repentance is absolutely necessary for salvation.

There are a number of ways the Bible refers to salvation. "Believe" is the most important one. Others are metaphorical: receive Christ, be born again, etc.

John,
Hope all is going well with your ministry. I have always thought of confession as agreeing with the Lord about our sins, but repentence being the actual turning around. In our state, it is easy to acknowledge we are sinners then do nothing about it. I will leave repentence as a turning around in this post, and leave the regeneration first to be able to repent out of it. There are plenty of threads that discuss that at length, which I tend to stay out of.

Your comment about the meaning of believe is good, comparing it to born again. Your experience is vast compared to my visitations for my church and the short mission trips I have been on, but it seems a lot of people take believe to mean "knowing it is true." Well, I know Paris is in France and real, and I know Washington was the first President. I was not there either. (no comments, LOL) I try to explain the Bible is not a book of history, or facts, but the living Word of God, His message to us. It represents the totality of our beings being connected to the Lord, a total commitment. The gap is sometimes explained as head knowledge vs heart. I do not think that describes the depth of the difference. Knowledge requires no commitment, love, worship, or life style. I think the Bible uses the illustration of demons knowing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I enjoy your posts, and admire those who take the Gospel to distant lands. God bless you, your family, and ministry.

 

[saturneptune]

Sometimes being slow, I just noticed the title of the thread. It would be bad to have your eternal destiny determined by a grammatical error, instead of accepting Christ, one excepts Christ.

I know, I know, for the hyper Calvinists, it would have made no difference, as one does not accept Christ. Then again, grammatical errors and word meanings do not make much difference to them anyhow.

 

[Winman]

"even to them that believe on his name"
Here is His name;
his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Are you suggesting a person does not have to repent to be saved?

What a man must repent of is believing in himself, trusting in his own righteousness to merit his own salvation. We must repent or turn from this false belief and recognize we are all sinners and have come short of the glory of God.

When a man repents and realizes he is a sinner worthy of damnation for his sins, he must believe Jesus is the Son of God who died for his sins and rose from the dead and place his full trust or dependence in Jesus alone to save him.

This is what repentance means. It does not mean we must turn from all sin, else no man is saved. No one, even Christians, ever fully stops sinning while we are in this body of flesh. If we must live perfectly to be saved we will all fail, and you have turned salvation into a work. This is slavery. We are free from the law and sin, we are no longer under it's dominion.

Now, I am not saying we can sin all we want, all I am saying is that if any man thinks he can completely stop sinning he is deceiving himself.

If you think a man must stop sinning to be saved, you are just as much a slave as any man under the law, in fact, it is the same thing.

No, repentance simply means to turn from self-righteousness and believe or trust in Jesus completely to save us.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

sometimes being slow, i just noticed the title of the thread. It would be bad to have your eternal destiny determined by a grammatical error, instead of accepting christ, one excepts christ.

I know, i know, for the hyper calvinists, it would have made no difference, as one does not accept christ. Then again, grammatical errors and word meanings do not make much difference to them anyhow.

 

[John of Japan]

John,
Hope all is going well with your ministry. I have always thought of confession as agreeing with the Lord about our sins, but repentence being the actual turning around. In our state, it is easy to acknowledge we are sinners then do nothing about it. I will leave repentence as a turning around in this post, and leave the regeneration first to be able to repent out of it. There are plenty of threads that discuss that at length, which I tend to stay out of.

My grandfather considered repentance a turning from sins. He put repentance and faith into the same event, turning from sin and to Jesus as Savior.

I agree with that, but at the same time lean towards the linguistic view that repentance is a change in fundamental thinking which results in a lifestyle change or, in the case of salvation, a change in thinking aboout one's own sin and need for salvation.

Your comment about the meaning of believe is good, comparing it to born again. Your experience is vast compared to my visitations for my church and the short mission trips I have been on, but it seems a lot of people take believe to mean "knowing it is true." Well, I know Paris is in France and real, and I know Washington was the first President. I was not there either. (no comments, LOL) I try to explain the Bible is not a book of history, or facts, but the living Word of God, His message to us. It represents the totality of our beings being connected to the Lord, a total commitment. The gap is sometimes explained as head knowledge vs heart. I do not think that describes the depth of the difference. Knowledge requires no commitment, love, worship, or life style. I think the Bible uses the illustration of demons knowing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I agree. Biblical faith is more than just a head knowledge, it is believing so that one entrusts one's self to Christ for salvation.

I enjoy your posts, and admire those who take the Gospel to distant lands. God bless you, your family, and ministry.

Thanks for the kind words. :wavey:

Note to all on this thread. The wife and I are about to spend "Family Week" at a Christian camp which probably does not have Wifi, so please don't be offended if I don't answer anyone's posts here for that time. :type:

 

[InTheLight]

I agree with that, but at the same time lean towards the linguistic view that repentance is a change in fundamental thinking which results in a lifestyle change or, in the case of salvation, a change in thinking aboout one's own sin and need for salvation.

:thumbsup:

Your comment about the meaning of believe is good, comparing it to born again. It seems a lot of people take believe to mean "knowing it is true." Well, I know Paris is in France and real, and I know Washington was the first President.

I agree. Biblical faith is more than just a head knowledge, it is believing so that one entrusts one's self to Christ for salvation.

Here's an illustration I like to use. When I was younger I believed in air travel. People got on an airplane and jetted to another far away destination. I had head knowledge.

But until I took my first airplane ride I really didn't 'know' about air travel. Once I was on that airplane I was trusting in the pilot and the integrity of the plane to get me to my destination. I was experiencing air travel, not just knowing about it.

Same thing with Jesus. People know about Christ, but until they put their faith and trust in Him, truly experience Him, they only have head knowledge.

 

[John of Japan]

:thumbsup:
Here's an illustration I like to use. When I was younger I believed in air travel. People got on an airplane and jetted to another far away destination. I had head knowledge.

But until I took my first airplane ride I really didn't 'know' about air travel. Once I was on that airplane I was trusting in the pilot and the integrity of the plane to get me to my destination. I was experiencing air travel, not just knowing about it.

Same thing with Jesus. People know about Christ, but until they put their faith and trust in Him, truly experience Him, they only have head knowledge.

Great illustration! I like it.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

My favorite illustraion comes out of Eph. 2:8-9.

Daddy wants to give Johnny a bicycle for Christmas. It's sitting in the living room already for Johnny. Daddy isn't going to force Johnny to take it outside and ride the bike. Johnny has to receive the gift.

 

[Bob Alkire]

My favorite illustraion comes out of Eph. 2:8-9.

Daddy wants to give Johnny a bicycle for Christmas. It's sitting in the living room already for Johnny. Daddy isn't going to force Johnny to take it outside and ride the bike. Johnny has to receive the gift.

I have never heard that one, it is great.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

If it's forced, it's not a gift. Gift to me involves voluntary reception. Unless someone has another better definition of "gift."

I have never heard that one, it is great.