Baptist_Pastor/Theologian said:
IBecause DHK is a moderator I will single him out for my reply. My fear is that his opinion may have more weight. I do not want those who read this thread to be influenced by his hermeneutic. He is dead wrong on several things.
Your opinion is noted, and so is your arrogance. Just because your name says "theologian" doesn't mean you are one.
This has no bearing on my discussion.
That's fine. We won't discuss it then.
You cannot get around Romans 10, "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God... How can they know unless someone tells them?"
Psalms 19:1-2 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead;
so that they are without excuse:
Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew
the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
We are all responsible to the light that we have. Romans one tells how those who had light rejected it.
For you to suggest that I am trying to play God here ought to disqualify you from being a moderator. Grow up and deal with substance or else stay away from the theological discussions.
Your entitled to your opinion.
If you can't take the heat stay out of the fire. My suggestion to you is to take your ego, pride and arrogance and dump them in pail of humility.
If you want to complain to the administration about me you are within your rights to do so. This is a debate forum. If you can't debate without complaining about moderators then maybe you shouldn't be here. So take your own advice and grow up.
Any one that assumes how much spiritual light the rest of the world has or does not have is putting them in the place of God. You are not God. Don't try and play that position. You don't know how much spiritual light others have had in other nations. Don't pretend that you do.
Your interpretive skills are highly in question. You are basic misrepresenting Scripture. When it says "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men" as you put it, that by no means suggests that all people at all times have been given special revelation. You are outside of evangelical Christianity when you suggest such. You are certainly not within Baptist belief to suggest suggest such. As such you do not belong as a moderator of a Baptist theological forum.
Your arrogance in your last statement shows that you don't belong on this board.
However, I simply quoted Scripture to you. You didn't deal with the Scripture. Instead you attacked me. What does that say about your theology? Not much. I'll post it again:
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
--Now let's get it straight. That is the Word of God, not my words. I am simply the messenger here. If you don't want to believe God in this matter you can take it up with him. The fact of the matter is, the Holy Spirit claims that
salvation has appeared to all men Are you going to argue with it, or believe it. Your argument is with Scripture not with me. So stay on topic. Don't attack me this time.
When the word all men is used it like refers to all nations of men, and not every man at every time.
Your opinion--not backed up by anything but---your opinion. How would I ever guess? Care to elaborate how ALL nations of ALL men also refers to ALL men in ALL nations. I guess ALL does mean ALL doesn't it?
You are read what you want the word all to mean. Your view also contradicts other Scripture which a sound hermeneutic will not do.
Perhaps you may misunderstand my view. You may think I contradict other Scripture, but I don't.
Romans 10 is hard to get around, "Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God... How can the believe what they have not heard... How can they hear unless someone tells them."
They can't.
1. The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.
2. Rom.1:20--They are without excuse.
3. The heavens declare the glory of God.
4. Their conscience bears them witness.
5. They have the law written in their hearts.
6. God has given them light; as he gives a measure of light to every man.
7. In his grace he will give the light to any man who, acting on the light that he has already received, wants more light--that is wants to be saved. That also is the essence of what Spurgeon said.
8. In connection with the above (#7), if he doesn't receive that light (the light of the gospel), then his blood will be upon your hands and you will give account for it. But God doesn't need you. If you disobey his call he will send someone else in your place.
There is no command in the Bible to stay at home. The only command is to go into all the world. If a person has not received a definite call to stay at home then God has called him to go into all the world.
The basis for international missions is that the hundreds of millions of people in other nations will die and go to hell unless they hear and believe the gospel. What you suggest is that there is no need to preach to the nations because God is able to without you and I. What is ironic is that you are taking a hyper-Calvinism view that William Carey faced prior to his missionary journey to India. I would reply to your view with his words, "God may save the heathen without you but he will not save the heathen without me." It is God who has chosen the foolishness of preaching to reach the lost. It is God who has established that unless by faith your receive the Word of God that has been preached to you, then you will perish. Your issue is not with my arrogance but with God's system.
You have no idea what I believe do you?
DHK
