Is Faith Necessary for Salvation?

[webdog]

Is your faith able to justify you or not?

God justifies us on the condition of our faith in Christ, yes.

Again, only God justifieth. According to the text, Christ's faith does the justifying.

I don't disagree that God justifies, but according to the earliest manuscripts, "of" has no place being in there to base a debate from in the first place. Faith is the substance of what is hoped for, what is not seen. What has Christ not seen, and what need does He have for hope?

Now Webdog - are you telling me that your faith can justify you?

See my first response...but who cares what I say...what does Scripture say? Who's faith healed the woman that touched Christ's robe? Whose faith did He say it was? Whose faith does Scripture say it is?

Mat 9:22 Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, "Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well." And instantly the woman was made well.
Mat 9:29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, "According to your faith be it done to you."
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.
Mat 17:20 He said to them, "Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faithlike a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you."
Luk 8:25 He said to them, "Where is your faith?" And they were afraid, and they marveled, saying to one another, "Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?"
Luk 18:42 And Jesus said to him, "Recover your sight; your faith has made you well."
Luk 22:32but I have prayed for you thatyour faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."
Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed in all the world.
1Co 2:5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
2Co 1:24 Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, for you stand firm in your faith.
2Co 10:15 We do not boast beyond limit in the labors of others. But our hope is that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you may be greatly enlarged,
Eph 1:15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints,
Col 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints,
Col 2:5 For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
1Th 1:8 For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything.
1Th 3:2 and we sent Timothy, our brother and God's coworker in the gospel of Christ, to establish and exhort you in your faith,
1Th 3:5 For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain.
1Th 3:6 But now that Timothy has come to us from you, and has brought us the good news of your faith and love and reported that you always remember us kindly and long to see us, as we long to see you--
1Th 3:7 for this reason, brothers, in all our distress and affliction we have been comforted about you through your faith.
1Th 3:10 as we pray most earnestly night and day that we may see you face to face and supply what is lacking in your faith?
2Th 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.
Phm 1:6 and I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ.
Jam 1:3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.
Jam 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
1Pe 5:9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.
2Pe 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,

 

[Tom Butler]

When you are the Creator of the universe, have all authority and power, have all knowledge, you don't need faith.

 

[AVBunyan]

God justifies us on the condition of our faith in Christ, yes.

Come webdog - let us reason together.
Look closely at the verses you quoted that have the word faith in them.

There are two of kinds of faith as I understand - a justifying faith and a practical faith.

Which ones in your list deal with justification in the sense that the apostle Paul expounded justification?

Again - God justifies - our faith does not. Gal. 2:16 says Christ's faith does. Gal. 2:20 says we live by Christ's faith. Rom. 3:22 says we get righteousness by Christ's faith. It is all Christ! :wavey:

I summarize:
Christ said, "for without me ye can do nothing."

God bless :wavey:

 

[webdog]

There are two of kinds of faith as I understand - a justifying faith and a practical faith.

Prove it. This is one of those calvinistic urban legends along the same lines as "one only acts according to their nature" that cannot be Scripturally proven. Faith is faith. The Bible doesn't differentiate between the mystical "saving faith" sprinkled on the "elect" and "practical faith", neither should we.

 

[Amy.G]

Is your faith able to justify you or not?

No, but the object of my faith is.

 

[AVBunyan]

No, but the object of my faith is.

Hence..."the faith of Jesus Christ."

God bless

 

[Amy.G]

Hence..."the faith of Jesus Christ."

God bless

Hence the faith IN Jesus Christ. If the object of my faith is Jesus, then I have faith IN Jesus not faith OF Jesus. That doesn't even make sense. Jesus needs no faith in Himself or God since He IS God. I quoted Matthew Henry to you because I thought his interpretation might have some weight with you since he was dead long before any new versions came into existence.

 

[rsr]

Never intended this to be a textual issue but let's cover it.

The originals are gone so we cannot verify and this is not the issue anyway.
I understand every new version says "in" for these texts are not the same text the KJV is based on.

This is a translational issue, not a textual one; the manuscripts agree on the reading; the translators disagree on the translation.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

The "world" does not necessarily have to mean all the descendants of Adam. God chose in Christ before the foundation of the world and Christ redeemed by His blood a multitude which no man can number out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation. God can love the world without loving every person in it.

 

[psalms109:31]

Believers

God does love the world the whole world that He sent His Son. He didn't love the world as He will save everyone, but He loved the world that He gave it hope through Jesus.

Those who He chose before even the foundation of the world is believers in His Son.

Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness, and we who are believers is the children of Abraham.

Yes his seed will be like the sands of the sea shore.

We need to share to the world His love and He will separate the wheat from the tares.

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, God is sending us out with good news.

 

[npetreley]

Psalms, I try not to focus on presentation, but sometimes presentation really does have an adverse impact on the reader. Could you please try to take the trouble to write in paragraphs? Your posts come across as pompous declarations because you give each sentence its own line.

 

[psalms109:31]

English

Forgive me I'm not an english major.

To bring the world the hope it has in Jesus is not popouse, it is what Jesus taught us.

When Jesus looked out into the multitude He had compassion on them for they were lambs without a Shepherd

James 5:20:
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

 

[npetreley]

Forgive me I'm not an english major.

To bring the world the hope it has in Jesus is not popouse, it is what Jesus taught us.

When Jesus looked out into the multitude He had compassion on them for they were lambs without a Shepherd

James 5:20:
19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Honestly, you don't have to be an English major to type that as:

Forgive me I'm not an english major.

To bring the world the hope it has in Jesus is not popouse, it is what Jesus taught us. When Jesus looked out into the multitude He had compassion on them for they were lambs without a Shepherd

In other words, press ENTER when you're done with a thought, not after every period.

 

[Blammo]

Forgive me I'm not an english major.

No big deal, Brother.

I have no problem understanding your posts the way you present them.

If I have a problem with any of your views I will address them.

Not the way they are presented.

God bless you.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Faith does not justify us in the sight of God, for the blood of Christ alone does that (Romans 5:9). In some sense, though, Scripture states that we are "justified by faith." The question is not whether we are justified by faith, for Scripture teaches we are. The question, then, is in what sense are we said to be justified by faith?

It is said, "...all that believe are justified..." (Acts 13:39), for Christ, the object of their faith, has fulfilled the law, and the one who does not believe in Him has no basis on which to claim exemption from its penalty. Faith does not add to or take away from our judicial standing in the sight of God. However, Christ is the end of the law for those who believe because He fulfilled it. Therefore, those who believe in Him are said to be "justified by faith."

"And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses." -Acts 13:39.

Those who believe are justified "from" something, namely, all things from which those under the Law could not be justified. It demanded perfect obedience, but Christ came and redeemed us from the curse of the Law. Since He fulfilled it, He is the end of the Law for obtaining righteousness to those who put their trust in Him. There is no other way to be justified from it without a perfect obedience to offer it, for that is what it demands. Only those who believe have a perfect obedience to plead, and that is the perfect obedience of Jesus Christ. Therefore, they are "justified by faith" in Him because of what He accomplished.

 

[DHK]

Please deal with the substance that is being discussed... [demeaning langauge removed]
You said that belief and the atonement cannot be separated. The point is not that 1 Jo. 2:2 teaches general atonement or not, the point is that if you suggest it does and you say there is not separation of believe and the atonement then that requires that those atoned for all have saving grace. Otherwise you could argue for general atonement and still suggest that it is available but not automatic because in order to benefit from the atonement you would have to have believed in the gospel.

BPT,
I don't have time to deal with each and every complaint of yours against moderation.
I will give you this warning as a moderator. You have attacked a moderartor which is against BB rules. It will be taken up with the administration. Quite frankly I am tired of it. If you don't like the way that the administration does things, then find another board to spout off your arrogance. We don't need it here.
I don't have time to answer each and every post of yours. I teach in a Bible College four hours every day, and two hours each evening. On Saturdays I teach two hours each evening, and Sundays are busy as well. So while you are running down the adminstration, and in particular the moderators some of us are actually busy in the Lord's work, and don't have the time to take care of our baby Christians who don't know how to show grace on the BB.
DHK

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

BPT,
I don't have time to deal with each and every complaint of yours against moderation.
I will give you this warning as a moderator. You have attacked a moderartor which is against BB rules. It will be taken up with the administration. Quite frankly I am tired of it. If you don't like the way that the administration does things, then find another board to spout off your arrogance. We don't need it here.
I don't have time to answer each and every post of yours. I teach in a Bible College four hours every day, and two hours each evening. On Saturdays I teach two hours each evening, and Sundays are busy as well. So while you are running down the adminstration, and in particular the moderators some of us are actually busy in the Lord's work, and don't have the time to take care of our baby Christians who don't know how to show grace on the BB.
DHK

DHK,

You are overreacting just a tad bit there don't you think? [violation of rules 3 and 4]

 

[DHK]

You were right, I haven't been doing my job as a moerator properly. I'll try harderr.
DHK

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

You were right, I haven't been doing my job as a moerator properly. I'll try harderr.
DHK

So it is okay for you to attack board members but is not okay for board members to say anything in their own defense? If you dish it out DHK you need to be able to take it. I have not attacked you, I have debated your defenseless position and I have questioned your character. For the record this board does not need the evidence of my observations, your actions speak for themselves.

 

[Baptist_Pastor/Theologian]

BPT,
I don't have time to deal with each and every complaint of yours against moderation.
I will give you this warning as a moderator. You have attacked a moderartor which is against BB rules. It will be taken up with the administration. Quite frankly I am tired of it. If you don't like the way that the administration does things, then find another board to spout off your arrogance. We don't need it here.
I don't have time to answer each and every post of yours. I teach in a Bible College four hours every day, and two hours each evening. On Saturdays I teach two hours each evening, and Sundays are busy as well. So while you are running down the adminstration, and in particular the moderators some of us are actually busy in the Lord's work, and don't have the time to take care of our baby Christians who don't know how to show grace on the BB.

DHK

DHK,

You are overreacting just a tad bit there don't you think? The rest of the story.... If I were you I would not respond to my posts either because you are trying to defend a position that indefensible. When someone starts making too much sense just ignore them. I got it.

What do you call it when you say that I do not have Christian character or that I am an immature Christian? I call that an attack. Go back and read your tone. My tone is irenic in comparison to your antagonism.